The actual vs. desired outcome

[JMO8778]

Well good, cause its good you can laugh along with the rest of us. I know I sure got a good chuckle when HOTYH pretended not to know that about the system McGuckins used with the cash register reciepts back then. Its only in all the books well except for maybe one...DOI:doh: :laugh:

..you're right...good point..:clap: ..I hadn't thought about that !

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Well good, cause its good you can laugh along with the rest of us. I know I sure got a good chuckle when HOTYH pretended not to know that about the system McGuckins used with the cash register reciepts back then. Its only in all the books well except for maybe one...DOI:doh: :laugh:

A piece of paper with the amount listed of $2.29 isn't showing the cord to be among household items the night of the murder. It only shows something was bought that cost that much, that's all.

Nobody knows anything about any painting slings, which further makes the cord purchase appear fictional.

Really, I don't care what system McGuckins had. Even if it had cord itemized, I'd still be IDI. That would only cause me to believe the intruder used the cord PR bought.

 

[DeeDee249]

:banghead:

 

[DeeDee249]

This is good Dee Dee and I know nothing of it. When did they give the size 12 underwear to LE and what was there reason for not doing so sooner. I am interested because they left the day she was found and Pam came in and took some things and later I under Patsy said to 'torch' the house. Were they allowed to get all their things at some point and then say they found them?

The Rs themselves supposedly never returned to the house. PR's sister Pam was escorted to the house by police (she was even given a police jacket to wear so as not to arouse suspicion!!!) for the purpose of retrieving items needed for the funeral. The officer(s) that drove her there did NOT accompany her through the house as they should have, but waited OUTSIDE! No one saw what she took. In addition to several dresses and items for JBR to be dressed in, she filled the patrol car with stuff from the house, making several trips, including JR's GOLF BAG which he specifically asked for (in Colorado in winter). Anything the Rs didn't sneak out of the house the night of the 26th, she certainly was able to do so. A local shop supposedly provided the family with clothes for the funeral, though I don't know if they wore them.
At some point (far too quickly, IMHO) the house was released by LE back to the family. They never went back inside; instead a group of R friends and supporters (if anyone has names, that'd be great) bought the house and I believe they were the ones who ripped up carpets (yeah, wonder why...) and repainted. I do know that the wineceller itself was walled up. I do not know if this was the group that did it, or a subsequent owner.

 

[JMO8778]

it was said the WC was walled up,however,recently that turned out to be false,and the new owner said it's to be used for storage,and the rest of the basement,a rec area of sorts,tv and all.

 

[JMO8778]

That would only cause me to believe the intruder used the cord PR bought.

then why try to debunk everything we're saying?

 

[coloradokares]

A piece of paper with the amount listed of $2.29 isn't showing the cord to be among household items the night of the murder. It only shows something was bought that cost that much, that's all.

Nobody knows anything about any painting slings, which further makes the cord purchase appear fictional.

Really, I don't care what system McGuckins had. Even if it had cord itemized, I'd still be IDI. That would only cause me to believe the intruder used the cord PR bought.

Did you know the "donkey like" creatures sure took after the horse side of the family tree, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink either. Stubborn critters!! And that is all I got to say about that !! :waitasec: Did it occur to you that we who are RDI really do not feel the burden to convince you one way or the other. But it is just plain silly to deny what the odds must be of that happening. Of all the items in any combination the totals of each department were exact. Not close but exact. What are the odds?

 

[Solace]

Did you know the "donkey like" creatures sure took after the horse side of the family tree, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink either. Stubborn critters!! And that is all I got to say about that !! :waitasec: Did it occur to you that we who are RDI really do not feel the burden to convince you one way or the other. But it is just plain silly to deny what the odds must be of that happening. Of all the items in any combination the totals of each department were exact. Not close but exact. What are the odds?

Colorado,

The Ramseys had enough money and enough time to spin this murder any way they wanted to. And they did. It is just inconceivable to some that a woman and a man of John and Patsy Ramsey's stature in the community could or would do anything of this nature. And the fact that they spoke so loudly and wrote their book lends itself again to "why would they".

But when I look at their actions, there is no way, none, that John Ramsey would have let Patsy call their friends that morning. If I have to concede that they called 911 in shock and desperation, okay, I will do that (but I do not believe that John Ramsey would have. I think he would have called his very connected lawyers to help.

But there is no way, unless you want a buffer, that you are going to call two couples and a reverend over to your house so that they are there by 6:30 that morning. AND THEN have the audacity to say in your book, as John does, that he had hoped the Police would have been discreet.

John is never going to say a word. That leaves Burke. He is young and in his 20s and has said he heard creaking and noises that night. He knows something and it is going to effect him at some point unless it is true what I have heard that Burke is not quite normal himself, in that it would not be hard for him to keep this hidden.

But a rage murder such as this I believe happens in seconds and it is over. It is done, someone is dead and you don't need to live in a trailer park or a ghetto for it to happen to you. Patsy was a very strong woman capable of doing lots of things that the average woman would succumb to. I really believe that if a person is capable of this kind of strength in their life, they are also capable of doing something horrendous that they did not mean to - her rage got away from her.

And John's insisting that Patsy never got mad just reinforces my belief that Patsy did get angry that night.

But what really lends itself to my believing that John knows is the interview he gave with that idiot Erin M. of 48 Hours where he said he holds no ill will. His daughter's head was split in half and she was terrorized "supposedly" by an intruder, and he holds no ill will.

He has gotten by for so long with telling so many lies that anything goes now with his perrennial smile and it is almost like he is laughing at the audience (which I do not believe he is, but he comes across that way). The subconscious just cannot lie and I bring this up because in an interview John was asked if he had anything to do with his daughter's death (or did Patsy? I don't have it verbatim) and his reply was to shake his head yes with that ever present smile and then do (what I think was a realization) and say I would have given my life for that child while shaking his head no.

But he alread shook his head yes - the subconscious is really amazing. It is given the order of the day, it follows through. You have to be on your toes all the time to trick it otherwise, it will tell the truth in one form or another. That is the reason for all the "positive reinforcement" speakers that have come about - keeping saying something to yourself over and over and eventually your subconscious will get it. However, what they forget to tell you, is that for it to work, you have to BELIEVE IT.

 

[Rino]

Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat
OK I'll slow down.....

... the cord was among household items,
... managed to become among household items innocently,
... and without any witnesses.

These assumptions are made without any evidence to say this is so.

Nnnooottt neeeccceeesssaaaarrrryyy......But thank you

Really, I don't care what system McGuckins had. Even if it had cord itemized, I'd still be IDI.

So, really, what was the point of this entire topic?

 

[JMO8778]

Colorado,

The Ramseys had enough money and enough time to spin this murder any way they wanted to. And they did. It is just inconceivable to some that a woman and a man of John and Patsy Ramsey's stature in the community could or would do anything of this nature. And the fact that they spoke so loudly and wrote their book lends itself again to "why would they".

But when I look at their actions, there is no way, none, that John Ramsey would have let Patsy call their friends that morning. If I have to concede that they called 911 in shock and desperation, okay, I will do that (but I do not believe that John Ramsey would have. I think he would have called his very connected lawyers to help.

But there is no way, unless you want a buffer, that you are going to call two couples and a reverend over to your house so that they are there by 6:30 that morning. AND THEN have the audacity to say in your book, as John does, that he had hoped the Police would have been discreet.

John is never going to say a word. That leaves Burke. He is young and in his 20s and has said he heard creaking and noises that night. He knows something and it is going to effect him at some point unless it is true what I have heard that Burke is not quite normal himself, in that it would not be hard for him to keep this hidden.

But a rage murder such as this I believe happens in seconds and it is over. It is done, someone is dead and you don't need to live in a trailer park or a ghetto for it to happen to you. Patsy was a very strong woman capable of doing lots of things that the average woman would succumb to. I really believe that if a person is capable of this kind of strength in their life, they are also capable of doing something horrendous that they did not mean to - her rage got away from her.

And John's insisting that Patsy never got mad just reinforces my belief that Patsy did get angry that night.

But what really lends itself to my believing that John knows is the interview he gave with that idiot Erin M. of 48 Hours where he said he holds no ill will. His daughter's head was split in half and she was terrorized "supposedly" by an intruder, and he holds no ill will.

He has gotten by for so long with telling so many lies that anything goes now with his perrennial smile and it is almost like he is laughing at the audience (which I do not believe he is, but he comes across that way). The subconscious just cannot lie and I bring this up because in an interview John was asked if he had anything to do with his daughter's death (or did Patsy? I don't have it verbatim) and his reply was to shake his head yes with that ever present smile and then do (what I think was a realization) and say I would have given my life for that child while shaking his head no.

But he alread shook his head yes - the subconscious is really amazing. It is given the order of the day, it follows through. You have to be on your toes all the time to trick it otherwise, it will tell the truth in one form or another. That is the reason for all the "positive reinforcement" speakers that have come about - keeping saying something to yourself over and over and eventually your subconscious will get it. However, what they forget to tell you, is that for it to work, you have to BELIEVE IT.

Solace,that was an awesome post !! I also gained a lot of insight when you talked that being a thumbprint on JB's neck. Dr Spitz says her shirt collar was twisted,and the abrasions on her neck are knuckle marks,so to me that makes perfect sense.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Solace,that was an awesome post !! I also gained a lot of insight when you talked that being a thumbprint on JB's neck. Dr Spitz says her shirt collar was twisted,and the abrasions on her neck are knuckle marks,so to me that makes perfect sense.

That was indeed an awesome post. That mark on her neck has haunted me, and I also agree - it looks like someone snatched her up by the collar and roughed her up. I strongly suspect that's why they needed to stage a strangle scene - to mask any damage to the neck inflicted before the head wound that dropped her into a coma.

 

[Solace]

That was indeed an awesome post. That mark on her neck has haunted me, and I also agree - it looks like someone snatched her up by the collar and roughed her up. I strongly suspect that's why they needed to stage a strangle scene - to mask any damage to the neck inflicted before the head wound that dropped her into a coma.

JMO AND NP,

There is a reason people post here and it is because of people like you two. THANKS SO MUCH. You are both so knowledgeable about this case, that I take it as a real compliment.

:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

 

[Solace]

That was indeed an awesome post. That mark on her neck has haunted me, and I also agree - it looks like someone snatched her up by the collar and roughed her up. I strongly suspect that's why they needed to stage a strangle scene - to mask any damage to the neck inflicted before the head wound that dropped her into a coma.

I agree with that. They did need to mask the first strangulation. You know John had to know about this. How can you get so angry that you are pulling your daughter off the bed (she is not dead now and so you have to be very loud with her), you are dragging her and JB had to thrashing; it is not until you throw her that all is silent. So John is sleeping upstairs and Patsy is going nuts on the floor below. I just don't believe that she is not going to tell him. Because I dont' think she realizes that she is not dead yet. Here I go with the buts again, BUTTTTTTT, she had to have heard JonBenet's head crack. Had to have felt it.

I think she would have run upstairs and said John, JB is hurt.

No?

 

[coloradokares]

Solace,that was an awesome post !! I also gained a lot of insight when you talked that being a thumbprint on JB's neck. Dr Spitz says her shirt collar was twisted,and the abrasions on her neck are knuckle marks,so to me that makes perfect sense.[/quot

Please come and run for DA in Boulder County Colorado. We need you!! :clap: :clap: :clap: And that is one of, if not the best posts we have had in a very very LONG time!

 

[Solace]

Solace,that was an awesome post !! I also gained a lot of insight when you talked that being a thumbprint on JB's neck. Dr Spitz says her shirt collar was twisted,and the abrasions on her neck are knuckle marks,so to me that makes perfect sense.[/quot

Please come and run for DA in Boulder County Colorado. We need you!! :clap: :clap: :clap: And that is one of, if not the best posts we have had in a very very LONG time!

Oh my God! :blowkiss:

 

[BOESP]

Excellent post about the subconscious, Solace.

 

[JMO8778]

Oh my God! :blowkiss:

indeed,I agree w. CO..you'd be great !

 

[JMO8778]

One thing I would add is wolfmarsgirl posted about the abrasions appearing to be marks from diamond cluster rings,according to the pattern on them..I don't know how many of you have seen that,but it made sense to me (rings being placed near the knuckles and standing out more so than them),in fact it makes more sense than (I think it was the coroner) saying some appeared to be snaps from a piece of clothing..I think he referred to one as having a boat shape inside,but when you look at wolfsmarsgirl's pics,it appears the same way..although she referred to them as a smiley shape,b/c of 2 spaces above the half-moon shape on them.
Anyway THAT is the kind of evidence the GJ should have seen,IMO.I would think that would be pretty strong evidence to a jury,matching those ring marks up to the abrasions on JB.I don't see how anyone could have any doubt about Patsy's guilt then.(wolfmarsgirl also posted a pic of Patsy wearing 2 cluster diamond rings).
I don't know if Patsy took her rings off at night,but if she did,that's a good indication,(along with her wearing the same clothes),that she never made it to bed that night.

here's the link:

http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html

Wolf also said she hugged and rocked her own daughter while wearing rings like Patsy had,and the abrasions ended up being in the same places they were on JB.

there's more under the thread 'more about Patsy's rings'.

 

[coloradokares]

One thing I would add is wolfmarsgirl posted about the abrasions appearing to be marks from diamond cluster rings,according to the pattern on them..I don't know how many of you have seen that,but it made sense to me (rings being placed near the knuckles and standing out more so than them),in fact it makes more sense than (I think it was the coroner) saying some appeared to be snaps from a piece of clothing..I think he referred to one as having a boat shape inside,but when you look at wolfsmarsgirl's pics,it appears the same way..although she referred to them as a smiley shape,b/c of 2 spaces above the half-moon shape on them.
Anyway THAT is the kind of evidence the GJ should have seen,IMO.I would think that would be pretty strong evidence to a jury,matching those ring marks up to the abrasions on JB.I don't see how anyone could have any doubt about Patsy's guilt then.(wolfmarsgirl also posted a pic of Patsy wearing 2 cluster diamond rings).
I don't know if Patsy took her rings off at night,but if she did,that's a good indication,(along with her wearing the same clothes),that she never made it to bed that night.

here's the link:

http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html

Wolf also said she hugged and rocked her own daughter while wearing rings like Patsy had,and the abrasions ended up being in the same places they were on JB.
there's more under the thread 'more about Patsy's rings'.

I couldnt agree more and said so the first time I saw the comparison' My rings turn all the time and I have even left a similar mark on myself when my rings turned, I think that is exactly what created the marks. Thanks for putting that forth once again. I always think of it but never think to say so when the stun gun is brought up. :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Solace]

indeed,I agree w. CO..you'd be great !

Wouldn't it be great to have a roundtable on the Ramsey case. I think we would leave the Ramsey Team in the dust.

YOU ARE ALL GREAT. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU HAS REMARKABLE INSIGHT INTO THIS CASE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.