The actual vs. desired outcome

[JMO8778]

Wouldn't it be great to have a roundtable on the Ramsey case. I think we would leave the Ramsey Team in the dust.

YOU ARE ALL GREAT. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU HAS REMARKABLE INSIGHT INTO THIS CASE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I agree,you guys are great,and TR would BITE the dust next to us !!

 

[JMO8778]

I couldnt agree more and said so the first time I saw the comparison' My rings turn all the time and I have even left a similar mark on myself when my rings turned, I think that is exactly what created the marks. Thanks for putting that forth once again. I always think of it but never think to say so when the stun gun is brought up. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I just wanted to point out,(I just tried this),and if anyone else wants to,go to wolf's link,copy the pic of Patsy wearing the ring,and enlarge it.I tried adjusting the colors ..light,dark,and removing the color altogether,and you can clearly see a smiley face in the one she's wearing in the photo.

 

[JMO8778]

PS watch out for 'the hit dog barks syndrome' at IDI sites (I hope I can say that here);that's a good way to tell if we've done some major damage to their theories ! LOL.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

So, really, what was the point of this entire topic?

To show that RDI accident/ coverup theory makes an assumption, and in making the assumption, leaves open the possibility of being wrong.

The assumption is that the cord was already among household items the night of the murder.

The idea that PR paid $2.29 for cord to be used in painting slings is a fiction, frequently stated as if it were somehow established fact. Nobody knows anything about the purchase or the slings. There's no old slings that anybody knows anything about either. Its just a story made up after the fact to account for the cord being there for the RDI 'accident/coverup'.

 

[DeeDee249]

To show that RDI accident/ coverup theory makes an assumption, and in making the assumption, leaves open the possibility of being wrong.

The assumption is that the cord was placed among household items not for the purpose of murder.

The idea that PR paid $2.29 for cord to be used in painting slings is a fiction, frequently stated as if it were somehow established fact, as if there is any evidence. Nobody knows anything about the purchase or the slings. There's no old slings that anybody knows anything about either. Its just a story made up after the fact to account for the cord being there for the RDI 'accident/coverup'.

Of course, it follows that your assumptions also have a possibilty of being wrong.
Please stop saying it is a made-up story. We are not children. It is a THEORY. It is an OPINION. It is offered as an EXPLANATION. Nothing more. We could easily describe most of the IDI theories the same way.

 

[DeeDee249]

Solace,that was an awesome post !! I also gained a lot of insight when you talked that being a thumbprint on JB's neck. Dr Spitz says her shirt collar was twisted,and the abrasions on her neck are knuckle marks,so to me that makes perfect sense.[/quot

Please come and run for DA in Boulder County Colorado. We need you!! :clap: :clap: :clap: And that is one of, if not the best posts we have had in a very very LONG time!

I have always been perplexed by the triangular abrasions on the anterior neck. It may very well be the result of a manual strangulation with either the red turtleneck or a scarf or other soft material. THEN to cover up that fact, the garotte was made, so it would look like THAT is what killed her.
There is a site that pops up when "Jonbenet Ramsay Autopsy" is googled. I don't recall the name. But they show side-by-side photos of JBR's neck showing that abrasion and another autopsy photo of someone that had been strangled with a scarf. The marks are identical. Has anyone else ever seen this site?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The frequency that the term 'painting sling' is used in the RDI accident/coverup theories borders fantasy or even hallucination. If you have the notion firmly established in your mind that painting slings existed at the R's, made from the same cord, by PR, then your imagination might be getting a little ahead of the facts.

 

[DeeDee249]

The frequency that the term 'painting sling' is used in the RDI accident/coverup theories borders fantasy or even hallucination. If you have the notion firmly established in your mind that painting slings existed at the R's, made from the same cord, by PR, then your imagination might be getting a little ahead of the facts.

You gotta let go of the term "painting sling". Just get past it. There is a lot in the IDI scene that is fantasy to us RDI's as well.

 

[coloradokares]

The frequency that the term 'painting sling' is used in the RDI accident/coverup theories borders fantasy or even hallucination. If you have the notion firmly established in your mind that painting slings existed at the R's, made from the same cord, by PR, then your imagination might be getting a little ahead of the facts.

One of us is delusional. I have crystal clarity that Pam spoke of the painting slings.

 

[coloradokares]

One of us is delusional. I have crystal clarity that Pam spoke of the painting slings.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/nebula/9337/canvas.html

Now I will await your thoughts on just what you have to say about this link regarding the slings!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/nebula/9337/canvas.html

Now I will await your thoughts on just what you have to say about this link regarding the slings!

It doesn't matter if PR may have purchased cord, made a painting sling, put in on a painting, took it off to tie one length tight around JBRs neck, while draping loosely the other length over her wrists, and used Pam as unwitting transport of incriminating evidence.

What matters is that we can't factually place the cord among household items the night of the murder. That is, by non-imaginary means. And this fact clearly leads to an obvious assumption RDI makes that the cord was on hand for the accident/staging scenario.

An assumption that is completely glossed over with this 'a-ha, it all makes perfect sense now' declaration, based on a cord purchase, painting sling fabrication, and evidence removal that are all only just imagined!

BTW I don't get the difference between cord fibers on a painting and broken paintbrush fragments in the paint tote. Why would one be seen as any more or less incriminating than the other?

 

[Solace]

I have always been perplexed by the triangular abrasions on the anterior neck. It may very well be the result of a manual strangulation with either the red turtleneck or a scarf or other soft material. THEN to cover up that fact, the garotte was made, so it would look like THAT is what killed her.
There is a site that pops up when "Jonbenet Ramsay Autopsy" is googled. I don't recall the name. But they show side-by-side photos of JBR's neck showing that abrasion and another autopsy photo of someone that had been strangled with a scarf. The marks are identical. Has anyone else ever seen this site?

I have. The reason that I adhere to the triangular mark being made by a knuckle is my son HAD THE EXACT SAME MARK ON HIS NECK from sparring at Jiu Jitsu. I mean exactly.

It seems to fit the rage of someone pulling her off the bed.

 

[JMO8778]

I've wondered about the scarf theory,too,(remember JB was buried with one,I don't know if there's any significance to that),but there must also be some evidence on the red turtleneck that we're not seeing,IMO.B/c I don't think Dr Spitz would just arbitrarily say her shirt collar was twisted without some proof of it.And I don't think Thomas would say she was wearing the red turtleneck for no reason other than it being balled up on the sink.And remember that Patsy cried when she saw the photo of the shirt.
In the artist's drawing of JB in the white shirt,it appears the collar on that one is smooth (although we can't know how accurate the drawing is) and low,unlike the turtleneck which would be easier to twist around her neck.

 

[JMO8778]

To show that RDI accident/ coverup theory makes an assumption, and in making the assumption, leaves open the possibility of being wrong.

The assumption is that the cord was already among household items the night of the murder.

The idea that PR paid $2.29 for cord to be used in painting slings is a fiction, frequently stated as if it were somehow established fact. Nobody knows anything about the purchase or the slings. There's no old slings that anybody knows anything about either. Its just a story made up after the fact to account for the cord being there for the RDI 'accident/coverup'.

Holdon,if you wanted to convince me that Patsy was innocent,first you'd have to convince me that she didn't write that stupid note.B/c that is the big giveaway,IMO.(along with the rest of the evidence,it's the start of it).And there is no way you can do that..the handwriting itself is womanly,it's overall too soft,(even in trying to sound mean,it doesn't come off as a genuine threat),such as 'I advise you to be rested',the '2 gentlemen' and needing an 'adequate size briefcase'.I'm surprised she didn't tell him to pack a lunch and be sure to wear a heavy coat!
As far as a 'SFF' writing it,a SFF wouldn't use a phrase such as 'use that good southern common sense of yours'.Foreigners don't care and don't usually understand the concepts we use here in the US,such as someone being southern,yankee (no offense) cajun,midwestern or whatever.And besides that,it doesn't make any sense for anyone outside the family to have written anything like that.That was purely a 'Patsy moment', IMO.And from my own experience of hosting chat,IMO PATSY,without a doubt, wrote the RN! Yes,I would bet the rent on it !

 

[Solace]

Holdon,if you wanted to convince me that Patsy was innocent,first you'd have to convince me that she didn't write that stupid note.B/c that is the big giveaway,IMO.(along with the rest of the evidence,it's the start of it).And there is no way you can do that..the handwriting itself is womanly,it's overall too soft,(even in trying to sound mean,it doesn't come off as a genuine threat),such as 'I advise you to be rested',the '2 gentlemen' and needing an 'adequate size briefcase'.I'm surprised she didn't tell him to pack a lunch and be sure to wear a heavy coat!
As far as a 'SFF' writing it,a SFF wouldn't use a phrase such as 'use that good southern common sense of yours'.Foreigners don't care and don't usually understand the concepts we use here in the US,such as someone being southern,yankee (no offense) cajun,midwestern or whatever.And besides that,it doesn't make any sense for anyone outside the family to have written anything like that.That was purely a 'Patsy moment', IMO.And from my own experience of hosting chat,IMO PATSY,without a doubt, wrote the RN! Yes,I would bet the rent on it !

:laugh: :laugh: "I'm surprised she didn't tell him to pack a lunch and be sure to wear a heavy coat! You crack me up.

I am leaning more and more toward John knew what happened, but why in the world would he let her write that note? My son thinks John was out of his mind and he could not control her and let it go.

 

[JMO8778]

:laugh: :laugh: "I'm surprised she didn't tell him to pack a lunch and be sure to wear a heavy coat! You crack me up.

I am leaning more and more toward John knew what happened, but why in the world would he let her write that note? My son thinks John was out of his mind and he could not control her and let it go.

LOL,thx.
I'm thinking they just panicked,went into self-preservation mode and thought they'd better come up with an excuse for their dead child being in the basement..more than they just got up and she wasn't in her bed...I think ppl can do some weird things once the adrenaline starts flowing,and they don't stop long enough to think things through.

 

[Solace]

LOL,thx.
I'm thinking they just panicked,went into self-preservation mode and thought they'd better come up with an excuse for their dead child being in the basement..more than they just got up and she wasn't in her bed...I think ppl can do some weird things once the adrenaline starts flowing,and they don't stop long enough to think things through.

I agree. I think that it was insane that night. And as much as Patsy thought she was being quiet, Burke heard "noises" and "creaking". Creaking is one thing. Noises, now that is a different story. What kind of noises. Probably Patsy losing her mind.

Burke has to know something. He has to. I have seen people deny things that happened right in front of their face because they just don't want to admit what they saw. He knows something, I am convinced of it.

But I digress. I think you are right that the night was beyond the realm of weird and Patsy just wrote and wrote and wrote. I read in the Bonita papers that Nedra used the phrase "fat cat". She called Patsy a "fat cat" when John started making money.

For all you IDI's out there, it is coincidence on top of coincidence, and on and on and on.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND EVERYONE!

 

[DeeDee249]

Y'know, creaking and noises are sounds of a crime being covered up. Screaming and yelling and frantic rushing into the other child's room to see if he was OK would be the sounds of innocent parents discovering the note/body. THAT didn't happen.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Y'know, creaking and noises are sounds of a crime being covered up. Screaming and yelling and frantic rushing into the other child's room to see if he was OK would be the sounds of innocent parents discovering the note/body. THAT didn't happen.

What does a garroted JBR being carried downstairs by 3 men sound like? More creeking and noises?

 

[JMO8778]

What does a garroted JBR being carried downstairs by 3 men sound like?

a false story.
who's waiting in the getaway car,btw?
I also have a hard time believing anyone would sexually assault her in front of 2 others.