The actual vs. desired outcome

[Holdontoyourhat]

Sorry, but the idea that THREE intruders would come into someone's home, write a three page ransom note, and kill the daughter down in the wine cellar, without leaving a TRACE of evidence, is extremely preposterous, in and of itself.

'Without leaving a trace of evidence' is your claim stated as if it were fact. There's DNA of sufficient quality to enter into CODIS found mixed with her blood and under her fingernails. There's unidentified fibers, footprints, cord, and unmatched handwriting (there is no consensus among experts that PR wrote the note). There's also missing evidence.

How can you say there is not a trace of evidence of an intruder, when any of these items could eventually be linked to an intruder?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

well she did have that piece of lousy used tape on her mouth,which,btw,an intruder would have brought in new,fresh tape,and not placed on her after she was already unconcious.not to mention those lousy for -staging- purposes only,wrist restraints,if you can even call them that.



they needed time to change her underwear? for what purpose would that be? really,you're making this up a you go along.(HoldontoYourHat sounds like a sailing name,btw,kwim?)

You and I don't know how 'those lousy wrist restraints' got used. Its a laughable assumption to believe that because they were found loose on JBR that they were always loose, seeing how they're made of slipknots.

BTW, whose underwear was it?

 

[JMO8778]

You're always making a big deal about why not take JBR right out the front door, as if it would be 'dumb' not to. Well, picture it. Three guys carrying a writhing JBR out to some car or other might be a little disturbing to a neighbor or passer by, right?

btw they could have bound and gagged her,IF there was an intruder,as someone surely didn't mind smashing her skull or strangling her.so why not place a hand over her mouth,or bring a piece of cloth along to gag her with,as is the case with most KN victims?? a writhing 45 pd child is not going to present much of a problem to 3 grown men.

 

[JMO8778]

You and I don't know how 'those lousy wrist restraints' got used. Its a laughable assumption to believe that because they were found loose on JBR that they were always loose, seeing how they're made of slipknots.

there was 15 1/2 inches bet. them.one was so loose that it slipped easily off her cuff,and the other one was the one JR lied about when he said it was tied tightly,yet there was no impression of it on her wrist.it wasn't,plain and simple.

BTW, whose underwear was it?

by the R's own admission,it came from a package they returned to LE,saying they must have missed it in their search of the house ! (nice try on playing dumb though )
btw that proves evidence was hidden and removed from the house.LE missed it? Not likely ! The R's needed it to be 'found',and Dee Dee made a good point about the underwear awhile back.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

there was 15 1/2 inches bet. them.one was so loose that it slipped easily off her cuff,and the other one was the one JR lied about when he said it was tied tightly,yet there was no impression of it on her wrist.it wasn't,plain and simple.

by the R's own admission,it came from a package they returned to LE,saying they must have missed it in their search of the house ! (nice try on playing dumb though )
btw that proves evidence was hidden and removed from the house.LE missed it? Not likely ! The R's needed it to be 'found',and Dee Dee made a good point about the underwear awhile back.

A package they owned?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

btw they could have bound and gagged her,IF there was an intruder,as someone surely didn't mind smashing her skull or strangling her.so why not place a hand over her mouth,or bring a piece of cloth along to gag her with,as is the case with most KN victims?? a writhing 45 pd child is not going to present much of a problem to 3 grown men.

If you go with the assumption that the kidnappers didn't want to get spotted taking a writhing child to the car, and have every cop in town chasing the car, then its not hard to believe they would instead take JBR to the basement for some kind of regrouping. This is not a hard concept to understand, is it?

 

[JMO8778]

A package they owned?

yes,one Patsy said she'd bought for her niece at Bloomingdale's.But if you know anything about the case at all,surely you must know this.

 

[JMO8778]

If you go with the assumption that the kidnappers didn't want to get spotted taking a writhing child to the car, and have every cop in town chasing the car, then its not hard to believe they would instead take JBR to the basement for some kind of regrouping. This is not a hard concept to understand, is it?

would not she have been bound more tightly,more than the 15 + inches bet. her wrists and the loosly tied one on her cuff?
And if JB could have been spotted with three men,as tiny as she was,it would not make much difference whether she was still or not.3 men could easily hide her under their coats,or under that BLANKET found with her.No,I still don't see that a 45 pd child is going to present much of a problem.If that was the case,they would have gotten her out of the house so the family wouldn't hear anything ! Not navigate their way to the basement.

 

[Ames]

well she did have that piece of lousy used tape on her mouth,which,btw,an intruder would have brought in new,fresh tape,and not placed on her after she was already unconcious.not to mention those lousy for -staging- purposes only,wrist restraints,if you can even call them that.



they needed time to change her underwear? for what purpose would that be? really,you're making this up a you go along.(HoldontoYourHat sounds like a sailing name,btw,kwim?)

If Holdon doesn't know what you mean...I sure do! And I agree!!

 

[Ames]

'Without leaving a trace of evidence' is your claim stated as if it were fact. There's DNA of sufficient quality to enter into CODIS found mixed with her blood and under her fingernails. There's unidentified fibers, footprints, cord, and unmatched handwriting (there is no consensus among experts that PR wrote the note). There's also missing evidence.

How can you say there is not a trace of evidence of an intruder, when any of these items could eventually be linked to an intruder?

The only DNA found under her fingernails was her OWN. The DNA in the panties was DEGRADED...go and look that word up in the dictionary. WHAT UNIDENTIFIED FIBERS are you talking about? The only fibers that I have ever heard of, that they found...belongs to Mrs. Patsy Ramsey. They could not determine when that hi-tec shoe print was made. TEN experts agree that Patsy DID write that note....and I agree, that there IS missing evidence...thanks to Pam (Patsy's sister). Like I said before...there is NO TRACE OF AN INTRUDER.

 

[JMO8778]

Burke had hi-tech shoes/boots,whatever you want to call them,as was later found out.Not that he had anything to do w/ her murder;it was likely just an old print.

 

[BOESP]

If you go with the assumption that the kidnappers didn't want to get spotted taking a writhing child to the car, and have every cop in town chasing the car, then its not hard to believe they would instead take JBR to the basement for some kind of regrouping. This is not a hard concept to understand, is it?

Yes, it is quite hard to understand because three men with a ransom note aren't going to need much regrouping to remove a 45-pound child. There would be a lot fewer kidnappings if kidnappers were afraid to use cars, not to mention all the conflicting stories the Ramseys made, which are on video and in writing for anyone who chooses to read and watch them.

I can agree with some of your points though. I think it was a pair of people who had a key to the house and definitely were afraid to be seen leaving with an object under a blanket and who definitely did not want to get stopped by a cop. I think they did, indeed, take JonBenet to the basement to regroup.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The only DNA found under her fingernails was her OWN. The DNA in the panties was DEGRADED...go and look that word up in the dictionary. WHAT UNIDENTIFIED FIBERS are you talking about? The only fibers that I have ever heard of, that they found...belongs to Mrs. Patsy Ramsey. They could not determine when that hi-tec shoe print was made. TEN experts agree that Patsy DID write that note....and I agree, that there IS missing evidence...thanks to Pam (Patsy's sister). Like I said before...there is NO TRACE OF AN INTRUDER.

Go to crimelibrary.com and read about the murder of Jonbenet Ramsey. It'll be an eyeopener for you.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I can agree with some of your points though. I think it was a pair of people who had a key to the house and definitely were afraid to be seen leaving with an object under a blanket and who definitely did not want to get stopped by a cop. I think they did, indeed, take JonBenet to the basement to regroup.

I think they had a key too! So they went to the basement and fed JBR pineapple. Where did the pineapple come from? Was it fresh or canned?

They changed her clothes, I wonder why. Maybe the basement was used to get her ready to travel in a car for hours and hours. But while in the basement they lost nerve and assaulted and killed her instead.

 

[BOESP]

I think they had a key too! So they went to the basement and fed JBR pineapple. Where did the pineapple come from? Was it fresh or canned?

They changed her clothes, I wonder why. Maybe the basement was used to get her ready to travel in a car for hours and hours. But while in the basement they lost nerve and assaulted and killed her instead.

Patsy said she always bought fresh pineapple, never canned. Patsy said JonBenet loved pineapple and she stopped at a grocery-deli (sorry, can't remember the name) and picked up some pre-cut, pre-boxed fresh pineapple. I probably read this in one of the books (DOI, Schiller's, or Thomas's book) but don't recall off-hand the exact source. The pineapple was in a Ramsey bowl with a Ramsey spoon with Patsy's prints on the bowl and an iced tea glass with Burke's fingerprints sitting nearby. In Thomas's book he states that pineapple was physically consistent with the pineapple removed from JonBenet's upper digestive tract. It is reasonable to assume the pineapple sitting on the Ramsey table is where JonBenet got the pineapple she ate.

I suspect the only traveling planned was an airplane trip to Charlevoix.

Since JonBenet had on the top she wore the night before and since Patsy said she removed the black velvet jeans and replaced them with pajama bottoms, it seems obvious Patsy changed JonBenet's clothing, probably in the bedroom where JonBenet's clothing was kept.

Holdon, I respect your right to express your opinions, but this crime does not have the necessary components of either a kidnapping or a pedophilia group bent on molesting JonBenet or anyone else. It is also unreasonable to say three men/people/whoever needed to use two methods to kill a six-year-old girl. Neither do kidnapper-killers usually leave the victim fully clothed, wrapped in a blanket, with the face covered, in the victim's home.

 

[BOESP]

Go to crimelibrary.com and read about the murder of Jonbenet Ramsey. It'll be an eyeopener for you.

Crimelibrary material is written by a journalist. It is interesting reading, however, reading the transcripts, warrants, depos, and watching the videos, would provide more reliable information. I'd recommend www.ACandyRose.com plus www.realsundancekid.com www.thesmokinggun.com and The Forums For Justice message board.

 

[JMO8778]

If Holdon doesn't know what you mean...I sure do! And I agree!!

I have a feeling he gets it..these posts just seem to become more and more ridiculous.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Crimelibrary material is written by a journalist. It is interesting reading, however, reading the transcripts, warrants, depos, and watching the videos, would provide more reliable information. I'd recommend www.ACandyRose.com plus www.realsundancekid.com www.thesmokinggun.com and The Forums For Justice message board.

You sing the song of the tabloids, with the rich family scandal coverup scenario.

As long as the RN author, known to in fact be one of the perps, states it was a kidnapping, and as long as you don't know who did it or why, then the elements of a kidnapping are there.

Tabloids don't necessarily spread the word of truth, you know that don't you? RDI and its biggest fans spent a lot of time on the front page of the tabloids. Be careful where you read some of this stuff, because it could be slanted a little. Chronic sexual abuse prior to that night, PR's temper, PR's so-called handwriting match, and housekeepers remarks are all stuff that makes the tabloids sell. There's really no basis for it. Face it, many of the so-called 'experts' were hired by the RDI tabloids or authors and said what they said for a buck.

Crimelibrary.com is more moderate, factual, and less biased toward gossip.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Please don't get sucked into the tabloid 'ALIEN SPACE BABY FOUND ABANDONED ON THE MOON' mentality (not bad, huh?). Its those same pages that fill with RDI stuff, because rich family child sex abuse scandal sells, while IDI doesn't.

 

[BOESP]

You sing the song of the tabloids, with the rich family scandal coverup scenario.

As long as the RN author, known to in fact be one of the perps, states it was a kidnapping, and as long as you don't know who did it or why, then the elements of a kidnapping are there.

Tabloids don't necessarily spread the word of truth, you know that don't you? RDI and its biggest fans spent a lot of time on the front page of the tabloids. Be careful where you read some of this stuff, because it could be slanted a little. Chronic sexual abuse prior to that night, PR's temper, PR's so-called handwriting match, and housekeepers remarks are all stuff that makes the tabloids sell. There's really no basis for it. Face it, many of the so-called 'experts' were hired by the RDI tabloids or authors and said what they said for a buck.

Crimelibrary.com is more moderate, factual, and less biased toward gossip.

Sounds like you've really kept up with the tabloids so I'll leave it to you to comment on whatever it was you read in them.

Transcripts are not tabloids and neither are autopsy photos, photocopies of genuine documents such as the warrant affidavits and other court documents. Nor are the videos that show words coming directly out of the mouths of the Ramseys that are in conflict with their book, formal statements, and other videos.

I'm not interested in CrimeLibrary. Been there, done that. I find it's kindergarten atmosphere a less than useful place to discuss opposing opinions.

You are correct though about one of the "perps" being the author of the ransom note. Most QDEs identify it as likely having been written by the late Patsy Ramsey. Obviously, some don't want to believe the word of experts not hired to defend the Ramseys. Having taken one of John Douglas's seminars several years ago I know for a fact that what he has publicly stated about the Ramseys is in conflict with what he taught at that seminar.