The actual vs. desired outcome

[JMO8778]

Hey can I still jump in on that disclaimer!!

absolutely ! it's going to get more and more absurd,it could only go that way..

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

LOL.there ya go..scenario no. 1!

The scenario isn't new, its the one where the intruders arrive and leave during the night, bring black tape and cord, write the ransom note of ransom notes, and has their way with a 6 year old girl. No they didn't leave much evidence. Yes thats how criminals work.

They usually don't work in broad daylight, thats for sure.

 

[DeeDee249]

All of the R behavior from the moment of the 911 call is suspect. They acted from the very first as the parents of a dead child, not a kidnapped child. They then tried to project themselves in front of LE and assmbled friends that morning as what they thought parents of a MISSING, not a kidnapped child, would behave. But calling 911 after being specifically warned in the RN not to is, however, something that I can see people doing anyway. BUT calling in a posse of friends is not. Then there are the downright silly things, like (allegedly) looking under the bed, spending 30 seconds looking up and down the block...not asking their son if he saw/heard anything....these are the actions of people who KNOW what happened to their child. This was done to APPEAR to be looking for her.
Yet the RN tells them their child is kidnapped, NOT "missing". So why look at all? See...it's all about that note. The note says she's not just missing. No note? The parents would tear the house apart. Bang on every door in the neighborhood. NOT call friends to come over, but call every person they knew to see if she was there. Go over to the housekeeper's home, demand to search the house of that's where you think she might be.
PR sitting in the sunroom is just another example. If I heard someone yell for an ambulence while searching the house for my kidnapped child, wild horses wouldn't keep me from running out to see her. No, PR knew she'd see her soon enough. For me, this case is about 2 things. The fake note, and lying about the pineapple.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Contrary to the common belief, JR's 'after the fact' behavior is not consistent with guilt. If JR were guilty, he would not have beelined it to the basement when LE asked him to search the house. That looks guilty, and a guilty person would know it looks guilty. A guilty person simply wouldn't do that.

PR and JR's 'after the fact' behaviors were put to the supreme test on separate interviews. If it was their hasty coverup of an accident, their stories would have probably collapsed at that point. They passed that test, because their stories were consistent. Thats not very likely in a hastily prepared staged crime scene. They would've been one of many couples in crime that were exposed during a police interrogation.

 

[JMO8778]

All of the R behavior from the moment of the 911 call is suspect. They acted from the very first as the parents of a dead child, not a kidnapped child. They then tried to project themselves in front of LE and assmbled friends that morning as what they thought parents of a MISSING, not a kidnapped child, would behave. But calling 911 after being specifically warned in the RN not to is, however, something that I can see people doing anyway. BUT calling in a posse of friends is not. Then there are the downright silly things, like (allegedly) looking under the bed, spending 30 seconds looking up and down the block...not asking their son if he saw/heard anything....these are the actions of people who KNOW what happened to their child. This was done to APPEAR to be looking for her.
Yet the RN tells them their child is kidnapped, NOT "missing". So why look at all? See...it's all about that note. The note says she's not just missing. No note? The parents would tear the house apart. Bang on every door in the neighborhood. NOT call friends to come over, but call every person they knew to see if she was there. Go over to the housekeeper's home, demand to search the house of that's where you think she might be.
PR sitting in the sunroom is just another example. If I heard someone yell for an ambulence while searching the house for my kidnapped child, wild horses wouldn't keep me from running out to see her. No, PR knew she'd see her soon enough. For me, this case is about 2 things. The fake note, and lying about the pineapple.

exactly,they didn't know how to act in the case of a missing child,because she wasn't missing.they knew where she was.
looking under the bed,and JR using the binoculars are him trying to account for evidence,ie-his fresh prints on the bino's,just as he did w. the window when he purposely pointed it out to FW.

 

[JMO8778]

UNREAL...yeah, that's ONE word for them. If the kidnapping and ransom note was real....it stated that they would give JB back to them, if they delivered 118.000.00. Okay, that is peanuts to them...so why then, does Patsy sit on her butt, surrounded by friends.....looking at photo's of JB...and walking down memory lane? That is something that you do when you KNOW that your child is dead....not when they have been kidnapped, and the note said that she would be returned to them unharmed for the right price. Her looking at photos of JB with her friends...reminds me of those "MEMORY BOARDS" (pictures of the deceased)...that people put up at the funeral home, during family and friends visitation.

right,the pictures become very important after someone's death.it's one of the few things they have left.
just as suspect is at least one of them not escorting her body to the morgue.it's like putting flowers on someone's grave...it's one of the last things you can do for them.they didn't escort her there out of guilt,IMO-because one or both sent her there.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

RDI can't decide. Did JR do it? Did PR do it? Or did JR and PR do it?

There's problems with each one, but the biggest most obvious problem is that JR is excluded as the RN author. If you let that single fact exonerate JR acting alone (which at least is a rational choice because its based on undisputed fact), then JR becomes either a witness or a co-conspirator.

If JR is a witness, then everything that happened in and around the 911 call can be presumed to have happened according to JR. That includes his impression of PR's behavior and personality.

If JR is a co-conspirator, then he not only performed to LE satisfaction on Dec 26, but was given a pass in the separate LE interviews. If it really was a hastily staged murder following an unexpected accident, his story would not have held together with hers in the separate interviews.

 

[UKGuy]

Contrary to the common belief, JR's 'after the fact' behavior is not consistent with guilt. If JR were guilty, he would not have beelined it to the basement when LE asked him to search the house. That looks guilty, and a guilty person would know it looks guilty. A guilty person simply wouldn't do that.

PR and JR's 'after the fact' behaviors were put to the supreme test on separate interviews. If it was their hasty coverup of an accident, their stories would have probably collapsed at that point. They passed that test, because their stories were consistent. Thats not very likely in a hastily prepared staged crime scene. They would've been one of many couples in crime that were exposed during a police interrogation.

Holdontoyourhat,

Another lets make it up as we go along statement. Go do your research , use google check out criminal profiling and staging and you will find that in the majority of staged homicides it is the stager who discovers the body. Its not a law of the universe but in the context of a staged homicide it is an indicator of who is good for it!

 

[UKGuy]

RDI can't decide. Did JR do it? Did PR do it? Or did JR and PR do it?

There's problems with each one, but the biggest most obvious problem is that JR is excluded as the RN author. If you let that single fact exonerate JR acting alone (which at least is a rational choice because its based on undisputed fact), then JR becomes either a witness or a co-conspirator.

If JR is a witness, then everything that happened in and around the 911 call can be presumed to have happened according to JR. That includes his impression of PR's behavior and personality.

If JR is a co-conspirator, then he not only performed to LE satisfaction on Dec 26, but was given a pass in the separate LE interviews. If it really was a hastily staged murder following an unexpected accident, his story would not have held together with hers in the separate interviews.

Holdontoyourhat,
JR, PR, BR are all co-conspirators they all know what occurred that night, they have all colluded via either silence, loss of memory, or uttering inconsistent statements.

Its that simple. No evidence of an intruder, one corpse, three residents all suffering from varing degrees of amnesia, two of which are directly linked to the crime-scene by forensic evidence, makes it a no-brainer!

No amount of fact invention, or reputation spinning can change that.

 

[Ames]

The scenario isn't new, its the one where the intruders arrive and leave during the night, bring black tape and cord, write the ransom note of ransom notes, and has their way with a 6 year old girl. No they didn't leave much evidence. Yes thats how criminals work.

They usually don't work in broad daylight, thats for sure.

OH REALLY?? How many OTHER intruders have you heard of...besides the Ramsey case....that arrive and leave during the night, bring black tape and cord, write a three page ransom note while in the home, has their way with a 6 year old girl, murder the girl....in her OWN HOME...with the parents and a brother INSIDE the house, sleeping just feet away??? And not leave any evidence.... Can you think of any? No? I didn't think so....

 

[JMO8778]

OH REALLY?? How many OTHER intruders have you heard of...besides the Ramsey case....that arrive and leave during the night, bring black tape and cord, write a three page ransom note while in the home, has their way with a 6 year old girl, murder the girl....in her OWN HOME...with the parents and a brother INSIDE the house, sleeping just feet away??? And not leave any evidence.... Can you think of any? No? I didn't think so....

I know and to say that their behavior doesn't count is ludicrous..not only were there red lights flashing,Patsy and JR both might as well have been wearing a flashing neon sign !! Officer French noticed that right away...that it seemed more like a death...something was amiss.And then Patsy looking through her fingers after the basement was searched by LE..not running to see if JB was ok when she was 'found'.. and that's in addition to the other things we'd discussed here.

 

[Rino]

The scenario isn't new, its the one where the intruders arrive and leave during the night, bring black tape and cord, write the ransom note of ransom notes, and has their way with a 6 year old girl. No they didn't leave much evidence. Yes thats how criminals work.

They usually don't work in broad daylight, thats for sure.

:doh: ......................................

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Holdontoyourhat,
JR, PR, BR are all co-conspirators they all know what occurred that night, they have all colluded via either silence, loss of memory, or uttering inconsistent statements.

Its that simple. No evidence of an intruder, one corpse, three residents all suffering from varing degrees of amnesia, two of which are directly linked to the crime-scene by forensic evidence, makes it a no-brainer!

No amount of fact invention, or reputation spinning can change that.

Excellent summation, UKGuy.

 

[Solace]

Excellent summation, UKGuy.

I agree. :clap:

 

[Solace]

and Patsy would have been a flurry of phone calls,to the housekeeper for one..IF she'd really thought it was her who'd taken JB..or to the neighbors,on a cell phone,*if even that ! NOT to the friends to have them come over !! I think I would freeze,just freeze,from fear,and think about what to do first,if I'd really thought that happened.Because if someone has your child, there would be a certain sense of defeat already,'as in ok,they've got her,NOW what do I do to get her safely back??? The note says not to call LE!' And if my spouse picked up the phone to call,I'd probably be slapping his hand,screaming,yelling 'NO,DON'T DO THAT !! THE NOTE SAYS NOT TO CALL !'
The R's are just unreal.

JMO, Excellent point, excellent. Did not even think of that. Of course she would have. I would have called her also if I had even a scintilla of a thought. But they did not, did they. They called their friends.

 

[BOESP]

Holdontoyourhat,
JR, PR, BR are all co-conspirators they all know what occurred that night, they have all colluded via either silence, loss of memory, or uttering inconsistent statements.

Its that simple. No evidence of an intruder, one corpse, three residents all suffering from varing degrees of amnesia, two of which are directly linked to the crime-scene by forensic evidence, makes it a no-brainer!

No amount of fact invention, or reputation spinning can change that.

Now why didn't Hunter think of that.

Excellent post, UKGuy.

 

[Ames]

All of the R behavior from the moment of the 911 call is suspect. They acted from the very first as the parents of a dead child, not a kidnapped child. They then tried to project themselves in front of LE and assmbled friends that morning as what they thought parents of a MISSING, not a kidnapped child, would behave. But calling 911 after being specifically warned in the RN not to is, however, something that I can see people doing anyway. BUT calling in a posse of friends is not. Then there are the downright silly things, like (allegedly) looking under the bed, spending 30 seconds looking up and down the block...not asking their son if he saw/heard anything....these are the actions of people who KNOW what happened to their child. This was done to APPEAR to be looking for her.
Yet the RN tells them their child is kidnapped, NOT "missing". So why look at all? See...it's all about that note. The note says she's not just missing. No note? The parents would tear the house apart. Bang on every door in the neighborhood. NOT call friends to come over, but call every person they knew to see if she was there. Go over to the housekeeper's home, demand to search the house of that's where you think she might be.
PR sitting in the sunroom is just another example. If I heard someone yell for an ambulence while searching the house for my kidnapped child, wild horses wouldn't keep me from running out to see her. No, PR knew she'd see her soon enough. For me, this case is about 2 things. The fake note, and lying about the pineapple.

There is a case right now on Court TV, where a guy is on trial for killing his wife, and shooting and injuring the judge in his divorce case. Can't remember his name....maybe you guys know who I am talking about. Anyway, Jean Kasaras...(the last name might not be spelled right....a lawyer and a commentator on the show) said that in the lawyer world...that FLIGHT means GUILT. This guy tried to flee the country....take a look at Scott Peterson, and even though he was found innocent...and we know that he wasn't, and it was later proven in a civil suit....OJ Simpson....just for example, there are plenty more where that came from. And then lets take a look at John Ramsey...trying to make getting the heck out of Dodge, "remaining family" arrangements, on the phone....right after his daughter's body was found. Flight means guilt.

 

[Squishified]

There is a case right now on Court TV, where a guy is on trial for killing his wife, and shooting and injuring the judge in his divorce case. Can't remember his name....maybe you guys know who I am talking about. Anyway, Jean Kasaras...(the last name might not be spelled right....a lawyer and a commentator on the show) said that in the lawyer world...that FLIGHT means GUILT. This guy tried to flee the country....take a look at Scott Peterson, and even though he was found innocent...and we know that he wasn't, and it was later proven in a civil suit....OJ Simpson....just for example, there are plenty more where that came from. And then lets take a look at John Ramsey...trying to make getting the heck out of Dodge, "remaining family" arrangements, on the phone....right after his daughter's body was found. Flight means guilt.

Darren Mack

 

[Ames]

Darren Mack

Yes, that's it! THANK YOU!!!.....It's the case of pregnancy amnesia again...I can't remember ANYTHING these days.

 

[Squishified]

Yes, that's it! THANK YOU!!!.....It's the case of pregnancy amnesia again...I can't remember ANYTHING these days.

My memory stinks, too. I really gave myself a pat on the back for knowing Mack's name!