The Boarder Across the Street

[BlueCrab]

Why the "Hmmmm" BC?

capps,

I had found out third or fourth-hand that Burke was complaining to someone over the phone that day about getting too many clothes and not enough toys. The implication is Burke could have been harboring some resentment toward JonBenet for being, as he perceived it, the favorite child.

 

[Nehemiah]

capps,

I had found out third or fourth-hand that Burke was complaining to someone over the phone that day about getting too many clothes and not enough toys. The implication is Burke could have been harboring some resentment toward JonBenet for being, as he perceived it, the favorite child.

But, don't forget that the Nintendo 64 was THE hottest item that year for Christmas. I remember very well, because I purchased one for my own sons. It was very difficult to find one; in fact, I was on a "waiting list" at a large chain store and only got mine Christmas Eve afternoon. I knew many other parents who did not locate one until a few mos. after Christmas. I feel sure that Burke would have been very popular among his peers (and older boys) for having received that N-64.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Two things...

1 - How accurate do you think third or fourth-hand information is going to be on the Ramsey case? We can hardly trust first-hand info!!

2 - Both kids were spoiled. No matter what they got for xmas, they may have wanted more. And furthermore, it's not a big assumption to think Burke was jealous of Jonbenet...and it didn't come from xmas gifts.

 

[TLynn]

Re: Barnhill's witnessing a young man (believed to be JAR) approaching the Ramsey home -

Don't you think Barnhill would know if it was the "Boarder" or not? So, I don't believe it was the "Boarder" -

I also believe that is one of the biggest clues in this case and one that was not followed up.

It was the Ramseys' Detectives who told Barnhill he was wrong - it was not JAR because JAR was in GA. Ramsey Detectives were more concerned in dispelling Barnhill's sighting of JAR than finding out who was approaching their house that night!

--------

Also, why can't John Ramsey state things as fact - instead of his ....
"I know we got -- I
15 got a bicycle. I think that's what it was. I
16 gave myself a bicycle.
17 LOU SMIT: That Christmas?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, Patsy got a
19 bicycle, I got a bicycle, JonBenet got a
20 bicycle. Burke already had one, I am pretty
21 sure.

He started to say "I know..." then changes it to "I think..." Then when he states facts, he has to disclaim it with "I am pretty sure."

However, the purpose of this questioning seems to be bicycle tracks found on the lawn over the snow. So, who would have been riding a bike after the snow fell? Seems the whole family owned a bicycle - we know it wasn't JonBenet.

Which also leads me to believe this "no footprints in the snow" - but the snow melted....is just B.S. There was still snow around the house and there were bike tracks over it.

Were all the bikes accounted for?

 

[tipper]

John's confusion over the bikes may stem from that fact that Patsy did have a bike for Burke but was planning on giving it to him for his birthday.


I doubt John listened with more than half an ear to what Patsy bought, had bought, and was planning to buy. He sounds like most fathers to me.

 

[BlueCrab]

Were all the bikes accounted for?

TLynn,

That question was answered by John in a garbled way, so it's hard to say. From the '98 interviews it appears Patsy's bike was taken, but they got it back:

LOU SMIT: "What happened to the bikes?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "I'm sure that (JonBenet's bike) went back in the garage. Patsy's bike, I don't know, it could have gone in the garage. I don't remember."

LOU SMIT: "Have you seen it since, Patsy's bike?

JOHN RAMSEY: "Yeah. We have it."

LOU SMIT: "(INAUDIBLE) took it?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "No. We gave, JonBenet's bike we gave away. Patsy's bike we haven't (INAUDIBLE)."

 

[Camper]

Hmmm. IF someone has the picture of PR, JR and Burke leaving the church after the ceremony for JonBenet. PR wearing the black over the face veiled BIG hat. The one that John told her she looked so pretty in, (from DOI - donut have the page #) In that picture Burke is sidling along with a yellowish windbreaker type jacket that looked, as I recall, like he had outgrown it a long time ago. Perhaps the year before model. So keeping up on what the kids did or wanted, or had seemed to me at least like it had been a problem for some time. A 10 year old boy probably did not equate quantity with cost. How much did the game cost back then???

TLynn, great post, a rehash of mine about WHY the DETECTIVES the Ramseys hired were NOT more concerned about WHO the WHO was that Mr. Barnhill actually saw Christmas Day, couldn't a been Barnhills boarder er he woulda been walking the other direction, duh, huh, er - a toward Barnhill?

About the Colorado snow. Snow that is shoveled from a walk into a pile by the sidewalk where it came from, stays LONGER than snow on the ground after a storm in Colorado. We are one mile higher to the sun, and warmth from the day's rising temperatures typically destroys the snow on the grass in no time flat, while leaving the snow on the grass pretty much gone.

This leaves moisture within the grass that when the temps go downy down down in the night leaves a crusty surface. Then when we get a shrift of light snow, like delicate powdered sugar on the top of that, IF IF IF someone were to ride a bike on that surface, it would make an indention in the grassy stuff. I don't recall ever seeing pictures of bicycle tracks. BUT the point is there would be NO remaining tracks on the grass once the sun starts up again in the morning.

That type of a 'shrift' snow fall disappears so fast the following morning when our faithful Colorado sun comes out and warms up quickly. I speak from living in Colorado since 1946. That gives me 60 winters to see here.

If you look at the pictures taken Christmas Day, think you can get it a bit better.



.

 

[capps]

John's confusion over the bikes may stem from that fact that Patsy did have a bike for Burke but was planning on giving it to him for his birthday.


I doubt John listened with more than half an ear to what Patsy bought, had bought, and was planning to buy. He sounds like most fathers to me.

Tipper

I can understand that reasoning about the wife doing most of the shopping and the spouse not having a clue ... in an every day type situation.

In this case,John is being asked these questions to find out who murdered his daughter.Quite a different scenerio! There were too many "if'","maybe" and "I guess" in both their answers almost all the time.

If I was asked if I had pineapple in my house that night ... believe me I would be wracking my brain,to be giving them a difinitive answer of "yes" or "no". The same thing with the bikes.

Another reason why they are so high on the suspicion radar .... it's hard for them to answer any question,even the most simple ones,directly.

That smells like cover up to me.

 

[tipper]

Tipper

I can understand that reasoning about the wife doing most of the shopping and the spouse not having a clue ... in an every day type situation.

In this case,John is being asked these questions to find out who murdered his daughter.Quite a different scenerio! There were too many "if'","maybe" and "I guess" in both their answers almost all the time.

If I was asked if I had pineapple in my house that night ... believe me I would be wracking my brain,to be giving them a difinitive answer of "yes" or "no". The same thing with the bikes.

Another reason why they are so high on the suspicion radar .... it's hard for them to answer any question,even the most simple ones,directly.

That smells like cover up to me.

I think in the real world most of us would sound similar. Particularly when being questioned by people who are accusing us of murdering our child.

For example, say my child is found dead with a bit of carrot in her intestine and a decorative bowl of sliced carrots is on the kitchen table. I can tell you that I buy carrots every week. I can tell you she doesn't eat carrots that way. I can tell you we rarely eat carrots and they are normally carried down three by three and fed to the horses and that even when we do eat carrots I don't serve them sliced, in decorative bowls with big spoons. I could wrack my brain for the next 10 years and still not be able to explain definitively why the sliced carrots are on the table or even be sure they are my carrots given their strange circumstances.

I think there is a lot of everyday stuff we just don't pay attention to. At the moment I have no memory what anyone in my family is wearing. If they are all kidnapped I guess they are out of luck...

 

[narlacat]

Well everyones different....I could tell you what my child is wearing today. I can tell you what he has eaten today...what he had for breakfast and what he had for lunch.
But thats just me.
How is it that Pasty could tell us she remembers what Jonebenet wore to the Whites christmas party and remembers they had a disagreement over what she was going to wear....but she cant rememer if she had a bath before they went.
Its not a case of not remembering for the Ram's. They are very selective in what they choose to remember.

 

[capps]

That's the point I'm trying to get across.
Patsy was asked if there was pineapple in the house that night. She did not say " I am wracking my brain here trying to remember if I did have pineapple in the house." In fact she avoided the question,and proceeded to say what kind of pinapple she buys (packaged pineapple).

But the pineapple was just one of the questions answered in this manner. There were many.
There were many:
Pinapple In House: Not answered.
How many Bikes: Not sure,changed story.
Did She Have A Bath: Don't Remember.

Wouldn't you make yourself remember if this could help find your daughter killer? It's not like they were asking how many hairs do you have on your head.

The words of Dr. Lee : Sumtin Rong!

 

[Toltec]

That's the point I'm trying to get across.
Patsy was asked if there was pineapple in the house that night. She did not say " I am wracking my brain here trying to remember if I did have pineapple in the house." In fact she avoided the question,and proceeded to say what kind of pinapple she buys (packaged pineapple).

But the pineapple was just one of the questions answered in this manner. There were many.
There were many:
Pinapple In House: Not answered.
How many Bikes: Not sure,changed story.
Did She Have A Bath: Don't Remember.

Wouldn't you make yourself remember if this could help find your daughter killer? It's not like they were asking how many hairs do you have on your head.

The words of Dr. Lee : Sumtin Rong!

Yesiree...sumptin very rong! Another example is when asked if she had closed JonBenet's bedroom door...she went into this long when's why's and how's she closes/doesn't close the door. I caught something in that dialogue that suggested to me that she in fact closed JonBenet's bedroom door that fateful night....NE BOOK, pgs 143-44:

TH: How about JonBenet's room, what was the condition of the room?

PR: Well, I remember racing over and her door was just kind of slightly ajar...three, four inches, you know.

TH: Okay. Is that the way you left it the night before?

PR: Yes, that's USUALLY (emphasis mine) the way I left it.

TH: And is there a particular reason?

PR: Well, I CLOSED IT (emphasis mine) because if I did leave a light on out here, it would shine pretty brightly into her room so I close to make it a little darker in there. But I want to leave it so if she needed me or called out or something, I could hear her, you know.

Anybody make any sense of that question...did she or didn't she close the door that night? She was, after all working in that area so I would assume she closed the door.

 

[BlueCrab]

SILENCE was another slick technique used by the Ramseys to obfuscate the facts and keep everyone guessing about what really happened. The Santa Bear incident comes to mind.

A crime scene photo showed a Santa Bear on the twin bed next to JonBenet's bed, but when the cops later looked for the Santa Bear to determine if it could have had anything to do with the crime, it had disappeared. The Ramseys said they don't remember JonBenet having a doll like that, so was the doll used as a lure by the killer?. That raised a red flag so, after failing to find the source of the Santa Bear, LE eventually sent a plea to the public on the internet, with a picture of the doll, for information. The cops got 10,000 hits during the first 24 hours on the internet from citizens in regard to the stuffed Santa Bear, and the story was all over the TV. The Ramseys remained silent.

Come to find out the Santa Bear had been awarded to JonBenet at a pageant on December 14, less than two weeks before Christmas. It was JonBenet's last pageant, AND BOTH JOHN AND PATSY WERE PRESENT WHEN THE AWARD WAS MADE. It's clear the Ramseys had shamelessly sent the whole nation on a wild goose chase.

The Santa Bear was eventually found in a cardboard box stored in the Ramsey's Atlanta house.

BlueCrab

 

[capps]

There you go ....

With all the posts on his thread so far;the unanswered questions,silences and so forth .. how could any one walk away not thinking there is some thing suspicious going on.

And if they are acting suspicious ... you have to ask yourself why.

The only flaw I can see with the authorities,is that they weren't tough enough with the Ramsey's.
For example; when they questioning about the pineapple or the closed door ... it should have went further ... Mr/Mrs. Ramsey you haven't answered our question yet ... you went in circles here ... did you or did you not have pneapple ... was the door opened or ajar ... you were aware of the teddy bear, why did you say you knew nothing of this ... and so forth.

 

[lawman]

was JR`s bible opened to psalm 35,36 or psalm 118 ? or is this a myth
if somebody knows the correct answer would be appreciated

lawman

 

[tipper]

SILENCE was another slick technique used by the Ramseys to obfuscate the facts and keep everyone guessing about what really happened. The Santa Bear incident comes to mind.

A crime scene photo showed a Santa Bear on the twin bed next to JonBenet's bed, but when the cops later looked for the Santa Bear to determine if it could have had anything to do with the crime, it had disappeared. The Ramseys said they don't remember JonBenet having a doll like that, so was the doll used as a lure by the killer?. That raised a red flag so, after failing to find the source of the Santa Bear, LE eventually sent a plea to the public on the internet, with a picture of the doll, for information. The cops got 10,000 hits during the first 24 hours on the internet from citizens in regard to the stuffed Santa Bear, and the story was all over the TV. The Ramseys remained silent.

Come to find out the Santa Bear had been awarded to JonBenet at a pageant on December 14, less than two weeks before Christmas. It was JonBenet's last pageant, AND BOTH JOHN AND PATSY WERE PRESENT WHEN THE AWARD WAS MADE. It's clear the Ramseys had shamelessly sent the whole nation on a wild goose chase.

The Santa Bear was eventually found in a cardboard box stored in the Ramsey's Atlanta house.

BlueCrab

My recollection on the bear is that it was part of a "gift bag" given to Jonbenet at an event her parents didn't attend which is why they didn't remember it. They were in NY? and Nedra was with JonBenet. Do you have a sourcefor the DEc. 14 etc info?

 

[BlueCrab]

My recollection on the bear is that it was part of a "gift bag" given to Jonbenet at an event her parents didn't attend which is why they didn't remember it. They were in NY? and Nedra was with JonBenet. Do you have a sourcefor the DEc. 14 etc info?

tipper,

The Santa Bear was given to JonBenet at her last pageant before her death, the "Little Miss Christmas" pageant on December 14, 1996. From the 2000 interviews:

ATTORNEY LEVIN: "At the time you were interviewed in 1998 you stated to the effect that you did not recognize it."

JOHN RAMSEY: "Correct."

ATTORNEY LEVIN: "It is my belief, Mr Ramsey, that she received that as a prize on December 14, 1996. Were you at her last pageant in December?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "I got there late."

------------

ATTORNEY LEVIN: "In December of 1998, there was a fairly well publicized request from the Boulder Police Department for assistance in identifying and perhaps retreiving a Santa Bear, Do you recall that?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."

ATTORNEY LEVIN: "The same bear that you were unable to identify?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."

ATTORNEY LEVIN: "And that bear is in the videotape with you in the videotape."

PATSY RAMSEY: "Oh, really?"

BlueCrab

 

[Catfish]

That's the point I'm trying to get across.... Wouldn't you make yourself remember if this could help find your daughter killer?

Hi capps,

Your point is well made. The sheer volume of their evasive answers tells us they were not interested in assisting the police.

In her April, 1997 testimony, Patsy stated "... we have done nothing but try to rack our brains over this..." and later added "I mean, I have racked my brain..." But how successful were she and John 'racking' their brain in recalling details that would be helpful to police?

Some time ago I did a computer search through the Ramseys' testimonies for the phrase "I don't remember."

In Patsy's April, 1997 interview, she used the expression "I don't remember" 68 times. In June, 1998, she said it 60 times, and in August, 2000, on the few occasions her lawyer allowed her to answer quesions, she used this expression 33 times.

On the other hand, John's testimony in 1997 was limited to about 3 hours, so he only used "I don't remember" 41 times. However, in the lengthly three day testimony in June, 1998, he used the expression "I don't remember" a whooping 166 times. The final brief testimony in August, 2000, he only used "I don't remember" a mere 20 times.

I realise that if the police would have spent more time asking Patsy about shopping trips to New York and less time about JonBenet's final hours, there would have been far fewer "I don't remembers."

One is left to wonder just how much less useful information Patsy and John would have recalled had they not spent months (years) 'racking their brains' to remember the details of JonBenet's last hours on Earth.

-Catfish

 

[tipper]

tipper,

The Santa Bear was given to JonBenet at her last pageant before her death, the "Little Miss Christmas" pageant on December 14, 1996. From the 2000 interviews:

ATTORNEY LEVIN: "At the time you were interviewed in 1998 you stated to the effect that you did not recognize it."

JOHN RAMSEY: "Correct."

ATTORNEY LEVIN: "It is my belief, Mr Ramsey, that she received that as a prize on December 14, 1996. Were you at her last pageant in December?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "I got there late."

------------

ATTORNEY LEVIN: "In December of 1998, there was a fairly well publicized request from the Boulder Police Department for assistance in identifying and perhaps retreiving a Santa Bear, Do you recall that?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."

ATTORNEY LEVIN: "The same bear that you were unable to identify?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."

ATTORNEY LEVIN: "And that bear is in the videotape with you in the videotape."

PATSY RAMSEY: "Oh, really?"

BlueCrab

Thanks. I wonder what it is I'm remembering with Nedra.

 

[narlacat]

I'm sure I've read that Jonbenet went to a pageant with Nedra and Pam and that John and Patsy were in NYC. It must be in one of the interviews but I cant see it right now.