Barnhill

[tipper]

Talk to ST. He says Fleet searched after 6:30.

 

[Jayelles]

Talk to ST. He says Fleet searched after 6:30.

Have you missed out the bit which says Fleet went downstairs AFTER 6.30?

I can see where he says the sun rose at 6.30am and I can see that he alludes to the fact that the Whites and Fernies were already there at that point and I can see where he mentions the fact that at some point Fleet White had broken away from the group and had gone downstairs. I can also see where you have indicated missing parts of the quote.

 

[Rupert]

It's kind of gone from Barnhill to the suitcase & chair, but so good.

Bluecrab, I would like to be very careful here, because if what you say is true, either JR or FW are lying (or perhaps somebody else is playing musical chairs and suitcases).

To recap FW goes to the basement at 6:30 and moves both the chair and the suitcase. Later at 10:00, JR goes to the basement and finds the chair blocking the door and the suitcase directly under the window.

We need to be accurate about how far FW actually moved each item, but I guess that would be pushing it. After all, the chair was either blocking the door or it wasn't. The suitcase was either directly under the window next to the wall or it wasn't. I don't recall any discussion by JR about the suitcase being abit away from the wall. That would not make it a stable step. So yes, I think you have presented two situations where FW and JR are at odds.

Of course the 3rd contradictory situation is FW opening the cellar door and not seeing JB with her white blanket. I have said this before, I find it hard to believe that FW would have missed her if she was there. I think either FW was lying or JB was moved in there after. Then we have officer RF who didn't bother to open the cellar door. Why?

Surely we would have heard if RF contradicted FW. Does anyone know more on that? If JR contradicts both FW and RF, well then.

 

[BlueCrab]

It's kind of gone from Barnhill to the suitcase & chair, but so good.

Bluecrab, I would like to be very careful here, because if what you say is true, either JR or FW are lying (or perhaps somebody else is playing musical chairs and suitcases).

To recap FW goes to the basement at 6:30 and moves both the chair and the suitcase. Later at 10:00, JR goes to the basement and finds the chair blocking the door and the suitcase directly under the window.

We need to be accurate about how far FW actually moved each item, but I guess that would be pushing it. After all, the chair was either blocking the door or it wasn't. The suitcase was either directly under the window next to the wall or it wasn't. I don't recall any discussion by JR about the suitcase being abit away from the wall. That would not make it a stable step. So yes, I think you have presented two situations where FW and JR are at odds.

Of course the 3rd contradictory situation is FW opening the cellar door and not seeing JB with her white blanket. I have said this before, I find it hard to believe that FW would have missed her if she was there. I think either FW was lying or JB was moved in there after. Then we have officer RF who didn't bother to open the cellar door. Why?

Surely we would have heard if RF contradicted FW. Does anyone know more on that? If JR contradicts both FW and RF, well then.

Rupert,

There are three major contradictions that prove John Ramsey was in the basement prior to 6:00 AM that morning.

John Ramsey is lying, not Officer Rick French and Fleet White. John was in the basement PRIOR to 6:00 AM, and here's why:

1. THE CHAIR: John Ramsey admitted he had to move the chair to get into the trainroom. Rick French and Fleet White did not have to move the chair at 6:00 AM and 6:15 AM respectively. The chair had already been moved earlier by John.

2. THE SUITCASE: John Ramsey admitted the suitcase was up against the the wall and directly under the window. The suitcase wasn't moved until about 6:15 AM when Fleet White searched the basement and admitted moving it from directly under the window to search for shards of glass. So John had to have seen the suitcase prior to Fleet moving it at 6:15 AM.

3. THE WINDOW: John Ramsey admitted he closed and latched the basement window (he says at 10 or 11 AM). But Rick French at 6:00 AM and Fleet White at 6:15 AM did not notice an open basement window, even though it was one of the things they were looking for in the basement (there's only two windows in the basement). So John had to have closed and latched the basement window prior to 6:00 AM.

John Ramsey was lying on all three counts.

BlueCrab

 

[Zman]

Rupert,

There are three major contradictions that prove John Ramsey was in the basement prior to 6:00 AM that morning.

John Ramsey is lying, not Officer Rick French and Fleet White. John was in the basement PRIOR to 6:00 AM, and here's why:

1. THE CHAIR: John Ramsey admitted he had to move the chair to get into the trainroom. Rick French and Fleet White did not have to move the chair at 6:00 AM and 6:15 AM respectively. The chair had already been moved earlier by John.

2. THE SUITCASE: John Ramsey admitted the suitcase was up against the the wall and directly under the window. The suitcase wasn't moved until about 6:15 AM when Fleet White searched the basement and admitted moving it from directly under the window to search for shards of glass. So John had to have seen the suitcase prior to Fleet moving it at 6:15 AM.

3. THE WINDOW: John Ramsey admitted he closed and latched the basement window (he says at 10 or 11 AM). But Rick French at 6:00 AM and Fleet White at 6:15 AM did not notice an open basement window, even though it was one of the things they were looking for in the basement (there's only two windows in the basement). So John had to have closed and latched the basement window prior to 6:00 AM.

John Ramsey was lying on all three counts.

BlueCrab

So what your saying is FW searched the basement and moved a suitcase to search for broken glass underneath a window he didn't notice. He had to notice it. He had to at least think it was broken! Why else would he be searching for glass? Would you look for glass from a window that wasn't broken? Which also would be a "way in" for an intruder. Why did he not tell OF or report it to anyone?

Maybe FW was searching for something else. Maybe something he left there earlier. Something he just can't seem to find.

Twist that one around for me.

 

[BlueCrab]

So what your saying is FW searched the basement and moved a suitcase to search for broken glass underneath a window he didn't notice. He had to notice it. He had to at least think it was broken! Why else would he be searching for glass? Would you look for glass from a window that wasn't broken? Which also would be a "way in" for an intruder. Why did he not tell OF or report it to anyone?

Maybe FW was searching for something else. Maybe something he left there earlier. Something he just can't seem to find.

Twist that one around for me.

Zman,

I never said Fleet White didn't notice the window. I said the window wasn't OPEN because Fleet would have noticed it being open, and the same applies to Rick French. Neither French at 6:00 AM nor White at 6:15 AM reported the window as being open, because it WASN'T open. Only John Ramsey saw an open window, and he admitted he closed and latched it. Therefore, John Ramsey had to have been in the basement PRIOR to 6:00 AM to have seen an open window and to have closed and latched it.

BlueCrab

 

[Zman]

Zman,

I never said Fleet White didn't notice the window. I said the window wasn't OPEN because Fleet would have noticed it being open, and the same applies to Rick French. Neither French at 6:00 AM nor White at 6:15 AM reported the window as being open, because it WASN'T open. Only John Ramsey saw an open window, and he admitted he closed and latched it. Therefore, John Ramsey had to have been in the basement PRIOR to 6:00 AM to have seen an open window and to have closed and latched it.

BlueCrab

What difference does it make if the window was open or not? One of them must have been broken. Why else would FW be looking for glass? And maybe I'm wrong about this but a broken window is an open window, and needs to be reported to LE as soon as possible.

Unless FW knew the window was broken a long time ago and was looking for glass to see if it was a new break. And if he knew the window was already broken that means he knew how to get in and out of the house before the murder of JBR.

Not to mention how far that window may have been open. Maybe just enough for the homeowner to notice but not enough for others like LE officers and friends who miss dead bodies 10 ft from them.

 

[tipper]

7 JOHN RAMSEY: I came down the stairs. I went

8 in this room here. This door was kind of blocked.

9 We had a bunch of junk down here and there was a

10 chair that was in front of the door. Some old

11 things. I moved the chair, went into this room,

12 went back in here. This window was open, maybe

13 that far.

14 LOU SMIT: Okay. You said -- or how far

15 were

16 you? An inch?

17 JOHN RAMSEY: An inch, maybe, or less. It

18 was cracked open.

 

[Eagle1]

This thread answers several questions posed in the thread about New Book coming out in the spring. I found it again while looking in my subscriptions for the List of Evidences thread. Anyone who's recently been there know what page that is, the List of Evidences? Thanks in advance.

 

[aussiesheila]

That does look like JAR in the photo of the dec 23d Christmas party but it turned out to be a boyfriend of one of Priscilla's sisters. So, maybe Barnhill saw the "boyfriend" (or someone else who looked like JR) and thought it was JAR going into the Ramsay home early in the evening of Dec 25."

That's it!!! Barnhill definitely saw someone. At the time he thought it was JAR. But it was subsequently established that JAR was not in Boulder at the time so it couldn't have been him.

I have been thinking for a long time that the person he saw could have been CW boyfriend of JD or CG boyfriend of AS and I've asked people before if they knew what either of them looked like. And now I've come across this, someone and I don't know who has posted that based on what they saw in the photo of the December 23 party, that one of Priscilla's sisters had a boyfriend who looked like JAR!!!

Now I am convinced - the person Barnhill saw was CG, boyfriend of AS, sister of PW, wife of FW, and he was 'casing' the Ramsey house at 5 pm on December 25 prior to the planned midnight visit to the Ramsey basement by a group of pedophiles of which he was one.

IMO

 

[aussiesheila]

Yes, all so strange ...

... the more unsettling to me was the boarder knocking on the door during the Ramsey's party,with an excuse of being "worried" about the Barnhill's. How close was Glen Myer to the Barnhill's? If close enough,he would have realized they were attending a party across the street. If not close ... why would a boarder be worried about them? Sounds like an awful feeble excuse to "crash" the party.

Exactly what I thought when I first read this. I immediately put him on my 'Highly Suspect' list and he has remained there ever since. I would love to know what he has been up to since he left Boulder, when was it?... May '97?

I thought his alibi was very feeble too. How convenient to be in bed with the flu all night. Was anyone else ever questioned about how he appeared that day and the day after? Did he appear ill? Did the police bother to check his rubbish bin for discarded pain killer wrappers?

 

[Camper]

That's it!!! Barnhill definitely saw someone. At the time he thought it was JAR. But it was subsequently established that JAR was not in Boulder at the time so it couldn't have been him.

I have been thinking for a long time that the person he saw could have been CW boyfriend of JD or CG boyfriend of AS and I've asked people before if they knew what either of them looked like. And now I've come across this, someone and I don't know who has posted that based on what they saw in the photo of the December 23 party, that one of Priscilla's sisters had a boyfriend who looked like JAR!!!

Now I am convinced - the person Barnhill saw was CG, boyfriend of AS, sister of PW, wife of FW, and he was 'casing' the Ramsey house at 5 pm on December 25 prior to the planned midnight visit to the Ramsey basement by a group of pedophiles of which he was one.

IMO

------->>>Rupert and aussiesheila, IF WE are to support both of your suspects, the B's boarder or boyfriend. I have to ask and to know WHAT PREVIOUS exposure/encounters with JonBenet PRIOR to Christmas Day did they have with her? When did they discuss a 'possible' secret visit AFTER Christmas with her?

WAS the bf alone with JonBenet long enough to get this 'secret' visit off the ground in her mind? Same question for the boarder.

Do you think JonBenet had been introduced, and had previously met the bf, BEFORE the W's Christmas party? IF so, when where how many times etc. I have been on and off the boards WAS the bf at the Ramsey party of the 23rd?

==================
PLease recall that women who have come forward in later years to explain what happend when they were being sexually abused by their own fathers or ANYONE for that matter, was that they were convinced it was their secret or 'IT WAS to be kept a secret'. How might this play into the eventual murder? DID the three trips to the school nurse by JOnBenet, that the keep it a secret, was in play then? All three visits were in the month of Dec. before Christmas and after weekends at home. HOW long had the Christmas visitors been at the W's? was PW sis there with BF at beginning of Christmas er? OR did all the visitors come together at the same time or the beginning of Dec,?

.

 

[sissi]

Who left the Christmas party with Fleet ? It was said he left to go carolling.

 

[Eagle1]

Isn't there a link to pictures in the sticky titled Links and Resources? I'll try to find the party picture. We had it at the old Justice Watch forum which closed down, I remember, and because the boarder, GM, sort of crashed the party, I sort of doubt he was in the picture. Which wasn't everyone. I just read somewhere there were about 100 people there.

I tend to agree with Rupert that the lookalike was one of FW's California visitors, but I forget where I originally got that idea. Glad I found Rupert's thread yesterday, looking for the list of evidences, which helps with this thread but I never did find the list of evidences, wasn't subscribed and may have to go through a lot more pages.

If it was the Ca. guest, would he have gone to Waterford, Mi. to arrange a boating accident? I have no idea.

 

[aussiesheila]

------->>>Rupert and aussiesheila, IF WE are to support both of your suspects, the B's boarder or boyfriend. I have to ask and to know WHAT PREVIOUS exposure/encounters with JonBenet PRIOR to Christmas Day did they have with her? When did they discuss a 'possible' secret visit AFTER Christmas with her?

WAS the bf alone with JonBenet long enough to get this 'secret' visit off the ground in her mind? Same question for the boarder.

Do you think JonBenet had been introduced, and had previously met the bf, BEFORE the W's Christmas party? IF so, when where how many times etc. I have been on and off the boards WAS the bf at the Ramsey party of the 23rd?.

Camper,
Where on earth did you get the idea that I have theorised that either GM or CG said anything to JonBenet about a secret visit by Santa. I have never even entertained such a ludicrous thought.

What I HAVE said is that Santa told her about the secret vist by Santa.

If you read my theory (Members' Theory no 16) you will find that I have a group of suspects that I think were present at her murder and that one of them tightened the garotte and another bashed her over the head, leaving two or three others who were present but not actually responsible for the murder.

I have read that both CG and GM were present at the December 23 party, both self-invited it seems. I imagine CG came to the party because he was interested in viewing this child that he had heard about through his contact with the pedophile group, and that GM came mainly to check the place out since I'm sure he would have had plenty of opportunities to perv on JonBenet when she came to the Barnhills to play with Jacques.

==================
PLease recall that women who have come forward in later years to explain what happend when they were being sexually abused by their own fathers or ANYONE for that matter, was that they were convinced it was their secret or 'IT WAS to be kept a secret'. How might this play into the eventual murder? DID the three trips to the school nurse by JOnBenet, that the keep it a secret, was in play then? All three visits were in the month of Dec. before Christmas and after weekends at home. HOW long had the Christmas visitors been at the W's? was PW sis there with BF at beginning of Christmas er? OR did all the visitors come together at the same time or the beginning of Dec,?

.

Yes Camper, there is no need for you to remind me of what victims of childhood sexual abuse suffer and the way they play right into the hands of the pedophiles, I can assure you. Why do you think I keep posting here? Everything about this case hinges around childhood sexual abuse and its appalling consequences IMO.

JonBenet never spoke out. Just like so many of them. It is utterly, utterly tragic. In JonBenet's case it resulted in her murder, although mercifully this is not the case for most victims. Yes, she visited the school nurse 3 times. So why didn't the school nurse raise the alarm? Apathy? Too much trouble? She is just another one who might have prevented this final terrible event. But she let JonBenet down too, just as did Patsy and Patsy's mother and Patsy's sisters and certain wives who all must have suspected something but did nothing IMO.

 

[tipper]

[...] Yes, she visited the school nurse 3 times. So why didn't the school nurse raise the alarm? Apathy? Too much trouble? She is just another one who might have prevented this final terrible event. But she let JonBenet down too, just as did Patsy and Patsy's mother and Patsy's sisters and certain wives who all must have suspected something but did nothing IMO.

Has it ever been confirmed why she visited the nurse?

 

[aussiesheila]

I tend to agree with Rupert that the lookalike was one of FW's California visitors, but I forget where I originally got that idea. Glad I found Rupert's thread yesterday, looking for the list of evidences, which helps with this thread but I never did find the list of evidences, wasn't subscribed and may have to go through a lot more pages.

Actually Eagle1, I don't think this was Rupert's idea, it was someone else's (but I don't know who) that he said he was quoting.

If it was the Ca. guest, would he have gone to Waterford, Mi. to arrange a boating accident? I have no idea.

Eagle1, just a friendly suggestion, (he, he) you would find things a lot easier to explain if you give up this idea of there being only ONE perpetrator. IMO there were a number of perpetrators, and they in turn have been helped in the coverup by a multitude (well, maybe not quite) of parties who are linked by a common interest which they are all desperate to keep hidden.

 

[aussiesheila]

Has it ever been confirmed why she visited the nurse?

Oh heck tipper, you've caught me out. I'm not sure, I've read it somewhere but I don't know for certain that it is an absolute fact. Sorry.

 

[Camper]

aussiesheila, I do believe that if you RE READ my post #52 carefully, I did not put things the way that you appear to have interpreted them.

I merely state that IF one of the W's guests had access to JonBenet, could they have set up the 'secret visit by Santa'. Questions I have posed are whether the guests were even in town during the three weeks of visits by JonBenet after weekends at home PRIOR to Christmas. IF they were around, then potential for secret talks about secret visit are a possibility.

WE do not know what DATE JonBenet told her little friend about the SECRET visit to come AFTER Christmas, do WE?

IF we knew the exact date of this little conversation by two little girls, this might pinpoint WHO had told JonBenet of the UPCOMING secret visit etc.

I would see no use of the school nurse to HOLLER child abuse and call in the AUTHORITIES IF IF IF the little girl merely had a sore bottom, and a history of doctor visit problems anyhow, and no other signs. The school nurse may have called the Ramsey home and talked with someone about the FREQUENT visits, OR she could have left a message on an answering machine, that could have been heard by anyone in the R home. Hmmm. IF IF IF the school nurse did that. I have to wonder why or how we knew that information anyway.

I have forgotten any source, but it was posted by Zaniah a poster on WS, a very long time ago. Zaniah was not a poster who just made things up. She was extremely thorough in her postings.


,

 

[aussiesheila]

Who left the Christmas party with Fleet ? It was said he left to go carolling.

I haven't heard about this. Sounds interesting. Please tell us more if you can. Thanks sissi.