The case for murder

[freespeech]

It is impossible for officers to navigate a crime scene without actually using their feet. What I was taught in training is that contamination should be kept at a minimum. The officer who left the footprint also used his eyes in examining the "real" evidence. His footprint didn't erase what he observed with his eyes.

JMO

The officer in question: #1.) did not have a legitimate excuse for stepping on top of another footprint; #2) had no business stepping out on to the balcony without protective foot gear and only after all the evidence photos have been taken. Period. Unless, sdso wants to admit that they did a less than professional investigation then the p.o. that contaminated the scene should admit it.

 

[Betty P]

As someone mentioned in an earlier comment, dryer softener sheets can be effective tools in wiping away fingerprints.

While looking up the SDSO evidence photos I came up with a couple of questions:

1. Why is there a used dryer sheet in the room? One of the evidence photos shows items on the floor in the mansion bedroom with the balcony. One of the items present was a used dryer sheet, lying on the floor next to the knives. What would be the purpose of having a dryer sheet in that room? Why is it lying next to the large knife?

Link to SDSO powerpoint, photo is on page 13

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/rz.pdf



2. Why are there two knives and why is one of them a large, unweildly chopping knife?

If the knives were brought to the room for the purpose of cutting rope, the smaller paring knife would have been adequate for the job and easier to use. OTOH, chopping knives are usually used for chopping downward against an item while its laying on a hard surface, like a chopping block. Such a knife would be useless in trying to cut a rope, especially when the mansion kitchen likely had a large stock of good quality kitchen knives.

Since RZ was a very healthy eater, she likely knew how to use a chopping knife for cutting vegetables and fruits. If she were really planning to commit suicide by hanging, she would know that it wasn't a practical choice for cutting a rope.

OTOH, someone who might not be familiar with using a knife might choose it by mistake, or would chose it for another purpose. It's large, scary looking, etc.

Apparently SDSO never bother to follow up on these curious items. Declaring it a suicide meant they didn't have to investigate or explain.

 

[time]

As someone mentioned in an earlier comment, dryer softener sheets can be effective tools in wiping away fingerprints.

While looking up the SDSO evidence photos I came up with a couple of questions:

1. Why is there a used dryer sheet in the room? One of the evidence photos shows items on the floor in the mansion bedroom with the balcony. One of the items present was a used dryer sheet, lying on the floor next to the knives. What would be the purpose of having a dryer sheet in that room? Why is it lying next to the large knife?

Link to SDSO powerpoint, photo is on page 13

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/rz.pdf



2. Why are there two knives and why is one of them a large, unweildly chopping knife?

If the knives were brought to the room for the purpose of cutting rope, the smaller paring knife would have been adequate for the job and easier to use. OTOH, chopping knives are usually used for chopping downward against an item while its laying on a hard surface, like a chopping block. Such a knife would be useless in trying to cut a rope, especially when the mansion kitchen likely had a large stock of good quality kitchen knives.

Since RZ was a very healthy eater, she likely knew how to use a chopping knife for cutting vegetables and fruits. If she were really planning to commit suicide by hanging, she would know that it wasn't a practical choice for cutting a rope.

OTOH, someone who might not be familiar with using a knife might choose it by mistake, or would chose it for another purpose. It's large, scary looking, etc.

Apparently SDSO never bother to follow up on these curious items. Declaring it a suicide meant they didn't have to investigate or explain.

Great find on the dryer sheet pic!! I wonder if it is in evidence and if it was tested?

As far as the knives, I think it's a bit strange there are two. If I went to the kitchen to get a knife to cut rope or anything, I wouldn't grab two knives.

It also makes me wonder also if the big one was used for intimidation. I said early on that someone could have forced Rebecca to handle the rope or even write the note or whatever. I don't see any evidence though that they needed to do this to get her DNA on some things. Maybe more to keep their DNA off things? My guess is they could have held a knife to her and made her find things in the house also? Or move from one room to another? Then she was bludgeoned.

Maybe there were two people, so why two knives?

 

[bourne]

Great find on the dryer sheet pic!! I wonder if it is in evidence and if it was tested?

As far as the knives, I think it's a bit strange there are two. If I went to the kitchen to get a knife to cut rope or anything, I wouldn't grab two knives.

It also makes me wonder also if the big one was used for intimidation. I said early on that someone could have forced Rebecca to handle the rope or even write the note or whatever. I don't see any evidence though that they needed to do this to get her DNA on some things. Maybe more to keep their DNA off things? My guess is they could have held a knife to her and made her find things in the house also? Or move from one room to another? Then she was bludgeoned.

Maybe there were two people, so why two knives?

The presentation at the crime scene of two knives, gloves, paintbrushes, painting cryptic message on the bedroom door, multiple bindings to Rebecca's wrists and ankles, multiple wrapping around her neck with a single t-shirt, double-knotting, noose hanging, nudity, etc. are clearly staged for maximum dramatic benefit. An overkill IMO. Someone prone towards making the murder an unforgettable, crime-of-the-century melodrama evidently thought these ridiculous theatrics out.

 

[justice be served]

The presentation at the crime scene of two knives, gloves, paintbrushes, painting cryptic message on the bedroom door, multiple bindings to Rebecca's wrists and ankles, multiple wrapping around her neck with a single t-shirt, double-knotting, noose hanging, nudity, etc. are clearly staged for maximum dramatic benefit. An overkill IMO. Someone prone towards making the murder an unforgettable, crime-of-the-century melodrama evidently thought these ridiculous theatrics out.

Reflecting on your great post also reinforces in my mind that no single killer did this - I believe it was orchestrated by multiple killers. One of which wasn't about to pull Rebecca's hair out from under the ligature and wrapped shirt that covered her hair. Not only would Rebecca not take a shower prior to committing suicide but no woman would wrap multiple items OVER their long hair. Big miss on the killers' part IMO.

 

[Betty P]

The presentation at the crime scene of two knives, gloves, paintbrushes, painting cryptic message on the bedroom door, multiple bindings to Rebecca's wrists and ankles, multiple wrapping around her neck with a single t-shirt, double-knotting, noose hanging, nudity, etc. are clearly staged for maximum dramatic benefit. An overkill IMO. Someone prone towards making the murder an unforgettable, crime-of-the-century melodrama evidently thought these ridiculous theatrics out.

It has the quality of someone acting out a bizarre and somewhat childish fantasy. I don't see it as something that was planned far in advance, but more like a scheme developed in a short period of time, then embellished upon in a distinctly amateur fashion.

Doesn't it seem as if a killer who left this kind of crime scene felt comfortable in their surroundings? Did they not feel anxiety about being caught? Doesn't appear they did. They took their time.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

The presentation at the crime scene of two knives, gloves, paintbrushes, painting cryptic message on the bedroom door, multiple bindings to Rebecca's wrists and ankles, multiple wrapping around her neck with a single t-shirt, double-knotting, noose hanging, nudity, etc. are clearly staged for maximum dramatic benefit. An overkill IMO. Someone prone towards making the murder an unforgettable, crime-of-the-century melodrama evidently thought these ridiculous theatrics out.

I agree. It was quite dramatic. And in my opinion, makes a case for an angry suicide all the more. It seems to have had the desired effect.

 

[Betty P]

I agree. It was quite dramatic. And in my opinion, makes a case for an angry suicide all the more. It seems to have had the desired effect.

Not at all. Most suicides are simple events. What would be the point in bringing multiple knives, used dryer sheets, pet toys, and gloves to your suicide?

You also fail to mention that Rebecca exhibited none of the signs of someone contemplating suicide. In fact, SDSO had to invent a story about her being depressed, a story that was later debunked.

Sorry, the only rational explanation is a homicide and staged suicide.

 

[time]

It has the quality of someone acting out a bizarre and somewhat childish fantasy. I don't see it as something that was planned far in advance, but more like a scheme developed in a short period of time, then embellished upon in a distinctly amateur fashion.

Doesn't it seem as if a killer who left this kind of crime scene felt comfortable in their surroundings? Did they not feel anxiety about being caught? Doesn't appear they did. They took their time.

BBM - great point.

OVERKILL and LEVEL OF COMFORT AT THE CRIME SCENE are two major facets of murders committed by someone with personal rage toward a victim.

Plus, we have a very personal, third person message left and, maybe, the use of paints (since Rebecca painted it was said) was also personal (maybe debasing any talents she had or making it obvious the killer knew about her?). Displaying Rebecca naked body to the world also could be very personal and the rope tying, etc., symbolic. I hope Anne Rule comments on these aspects of possibly profiling the murderer.

Who had enough rage and hatred to kill Rebecca in this manner?

 

[MaybeNotToday]

Not at all. Most suicides are simple events. What would be the point in bringing multiple knives, used dryer sheets, pet toys, and gloves to your suicide?

You also fail to mention that Rebecca exhibited none of the signs of someone contemplating suicide. In fact, SDSO had to invent a story about her being depressed, a story that was later debunked.

Sorry, the only rational explanation is a homicide and staged suicide.

I can't comment on your assertion that suicides are "simple events." I doubt the families' feel that way. And we all know there are cases where the depressed person showed no signs of wanting to end their life

And I'm sorry too. The only rational explanation (IMO) is a suicide and staged murder.

 

[Betty P]

I can't comment on your assertion that suicides are "simple events." I doubt the families' feel that way. And we all know there are cases where the depressed person showed no signs of wanting to end their life

And I'm sorry too. The only rational explanation (IMO) is a suicide and staged murder.

Yes, your opinion only. Welcome to Websleuths. Are you an insider to the case? I notice you haven't posted much before, only today and in response to discussion of one of the WS radio shows.

<modsnip>.

 

[time]

I can't comment on your assertion that suicides are "simple events." I doubt the families' feel that way. And we all know there are cases where the depressed person showed no signs of wanting to end their life

And I'm sorry too. The only rational explanation (IMO) is a suicide and staged murder.

Of course, there probably are cases where someone showed no signs of depression, but I do not believe that is the norm. I know this doesn't cite a percentage, but..

"Most successful suicides follow a history of previous attempts"

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fighting-fear/201208/determining-suicide-risk-part-1

It is not rational at all in my mind to think that Rebecca committed suicide and staged it as a murder :what: - just not very believable. There is nothing about her death that points toward suicide except they say things like 'she could have done it', the paint was some kind of message, but not really a suicide note, and so on. At the very least, her death should have been inconclusive/undetermined and kept open.

With all due respect, as we were reminded on the suicide thread... this isn't a place to present your case for it not being a murder, but for why it WAS a murder.

 

[Betty P]

BBM - great point.

OVERKILL and LEVEL OF COMFORT AT THE CRIME SCENE are two major facets of murders committed by someone with personal rage toward a victim.

Plus, we have a very personal, third person message left and, maybe, the use of paints (since Rebecca painted it was said) was also personal (maybe debasing any talents she had or making it obvious the killer knew about her?). Displaying Rebecca naked body to the world also could be very personal and the rope tying, etc., symbolic. I hope Anne Rule comments on these aspects of possibly profiling the murderer.

Who had enough rage and hatred to kill Rebecca in this manner?

The rope tying and gagging as alleged by SDSO was definitely overkill. No one wishing to commit suicide would have tied so many knots or bound rope and t-shirt material over and over and over, numerous times, around wrists, ankles, neck, throat and face.

ETA to add photo of SDSO demonstration

She was heavily trussed up before she went over the railing (or was hung from below). IMO, that was a sign of anger and revenge against her.

Again, we don't know the exact nature of her bindings, we only have SDSO's report to go by. It didn't include any photos of her wrists or ankles with bindings, did it?

 

[Inparadise]

The rope tying and gagging as alleged by SDSO was definitely overkill. No one wishing to commit suicide would have tied so many knots or bound rope and t-shirt material over and over and over, numerous times, around wrists, ankles, neck, throat and face.

ETA to add photo of SDSO demonstration

She was heavily trussed up before she went over the railing (or was hung from below). IMO, that was a sign of anger and revenge against her.

Again, we don't know the exact nature of her bindings, we only have SDSO's report to go by. It didn't include any photos of her wrists or ankles with bindings, did it?

The rope used by SDSO was clearly much different than what Rebecca was tied up with, and was much easier for the officer to use in the demonstration...........

 

[time]

The rope tying and gagging as alleged by SDSO was definitely overkill. No one wishing to commit suicide would have tied so many knots or bound rope and t-shirt material over and over and over, numerous times, around wrists, ankles, neck, throat and face.

ETA to add photo of SDSO demonstration

She was heavily trussed up before she went over the railing (or was hung from below). IMO, that was a sign of anger and revenge against her.

Again, we don't know the exact nature of her bindings, we only have SDSO's report to go by. It didn't include any photos of her wrists or ankles with bindings, did it?

I don't remember seeing any pictures of her wrist and ankles with bindings on them, let alone the neck rope/scarf. It's ridiculous to think she bound her feet knowing she'd have to hop all the way to the balcony and then get over it - why would she calculate all that rope length and then make it difficult to accomplish her task? She WOULDN'T! Nobody would, it doesn't make any sense.

I still believe she could have been hoisted up from below. I know I've said this before and maybe someone will remind why I might be in error, but it would explain ...

* her neck not being broken
* fewer footprints being on the balcony
* the length of the rope being right to still be hanged

And, lividity?

ANNE BREMNER, ATTORNEY FOR REBECCA ZAHAU`S FAMILY: She had of course lividity on her back, which meant she died on her back

transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/19/ddhln.01.html

Plus, stiff bent knees? Wounds on her head. All of this is enough to tell us the crime scene isn't right.

Another reason, it's murder is because you would not mastermind all this only to have the rope stretch too far or the bed move too far and not die because the rope was too long. Who ties something WAY the heck inside of a house onto an object that could move to commit suicide anyway?

Most hangings are not jumping off of something with a noose around your neck either. Nor do most people do it outside, in public.

Oh, geesh... this is a murder.

 

[iSleuth]

As someone mentioned in an earlier comment, dryer softener sheets can be effective tools in wiping away fingerprints.

While looking up the SDSO evidence photos I came up with a couple of questions:

Why is there a used dryer sheet in the room? One of the evidence photos shows items on the floor in the mansion bedroom with the balcony. One of the items present was a used dryer sheet, lying on the floor next to the knives. What would be the purpose of having a dryer sheet in that room? Why is it lying next to the large knife?

Link to SDSO powerpoint, photo is on page 13

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/rz.pdf



2. Why are there two knives and why is one of them a large, unweildly chopping knife?

If the knives were brought to the room for the purpose of cutting rope, the smaller paring knife would have been adequate for the job and easier to use. OTOH, chopping knives are usually used for chopping downward against an item while its laying on a hard surface, like a chopping block. Such a knife would be useless in trying to cut a rope, especially when the mansion kitchen likely had a large stock of good quality kitchen knives.

Since RZ was a very healthy eater, she likely knew how to use a chopping knife for cutting vegetables and fruits. If she were really planning to commit suicide by hanging, she would know that it wasn't a practical choice for cutting a rope.

OTOH, someone who might not be familiar with using a knife might choose it by mistake, or would chose it for another purpose. It's large, scary looking, etc.

Apparently SDSO never bother to follow up on these curious items. Declaring it a suicide meant they didn't have to investigate or explain.

1. Why is there a used dryer sheet in the room? One of the evidence photos shows items on the floor in the mansion bedroom with the balcony. One of the items present was a used dryer sheet, lying on the floor next to the knives. What would be the purpose of having a dryer sheet in that room? Why is it lying next to the large knife?

WOW! WOW !
Dryer sheets! What a great thing to use to wipe off prints and DNA!

 

[K_Z]

1. Why is there a used dryer sheet in the room? One of the evidence photos shows items on the floor in the mansion bedroom with the balcony. One of the items present was a used dryer sheet, lying on the floor next to the knives. What would be the purpose of having a dryer sheet in that room? Why is it lying next to the large knife?

WOW! WOW !
Dryer sheets! What a great thing to use to wipe off prints and DNA!

Google "used dryer sheets and fingerprints."

I think the used dryer sheet and gloves are part of the taunting nature of the crime scene. What idiot criminal would leave that at the scene? Mocking, imo.

 

[justice be served]

Google "used dryer sheets and fingerprints."

I think the used dryer sheet and gloves are part of the taunting nature of the crime scene. What idiot criminal would leave that at the scene? Mocking, imo.

KZ, you are so right in the taunting nature of this murderer. The note on the door as well. I believe the murderer or murderers felt JUSTIFIED in murdering Rebecca as it was believed she had hurt Max when in fact it may very well have been others responsible for Max's demise. Probably it was an accident by other family members - all now scrubbed by PR companies in the earlier publicized versions of who was at the scene the morning of Max's death. And law enforcement bought into all of it which is evidenced by the shoddy, one-sided investigation.

 

[Zinn]

KZ, you are so right in the taunting nature of this murderer. The note on the door as well. I believe the murderer or murderers felt JUSTIFIED in murdering Rebecca as it was believed she had hurt Max when in fact it may very well have been others responsible for Max's demise. Probably it was an accident by other family members - all now scrubbed by PR companies in the earlier publicized versions of who was at the scene the morning of Max's death. And law enforcement bought into all of it which is evidenced by the shoddy, one-sided investigation.

In my opinion, the mocking element could answer the question of "Who would want to make a murder look like a suicide that looks like a murder?" Perhaps the gruesome display was a taunt, thematically similar to the message on the door. Perhaps the over-the-top nature of the scene of Rebecca's death was related to a desire to contrast obvious visual cues of a homicide with a report of suicide.

All of the above is just my opinion and strictly speculation.

 

[bourne]

I don't remember seeing any pictures of her wrist and ankles with bindings on them, let alone the neck rope/scarf. It's ridiculous to think she bound her feet knowing she'd have to hop all the way to the balcony and then get over it - why would she calculate all that rope length and then make it difficult to accomplish her task? She WOULDN'T! Nobody would, it doesn't make any sense.

I still believe she could have been hoisted up from below. I know I've said this before and maybe someone will remind why I might be in error, but it would explain ...

* her neck not being broken
* fewer footprints being on the balcony
* the length of the rope being right to still be hanged

And, lividity?


transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/19/ddhln.01.html

Plus, stiff bent knees? Wounds on her head. All of this is enough to tell us the crime scene isn't right.

Another reason, it's murder is because you would not mastermind all this only to have the rope stretch too far or the bed move too far and not die because the rope was too long. Who ties something WAY the heck inside of a house onto an object that could move to commit suicide anyway?

Most hangings are not jumping off of something with a noose around your neck either. Nor do most people do it outside, in public.

Oh, geesh... this is a murder.

You took the words right out of my mouth! lol

Excellent analysis. Bears repeating