The case for murder

[SunnieRN]

I will definitely be posting more soon. I have read a lot about this case and believe it is a homicide. There are many forums and threads on blogs that also follow that point of view.

Anyway, a brief hello to all(on my phone). Ty for all the great sleuthing being done here. Many people are following this case. My hope is that it is reopened and the family can receive answers they deserve.

hello Mombal and :welcome:

 

[KarenM]

Nope. I posted links about nude suicide hangings by women, too.

One of the links you posted was about bound suicide. None of the reported cases was nude. The other link you posted was about nude suicide. But none of the victims was bound (esp. both hands and feet).

 

[KarenM]

Never happened before, must be murder, right?

By the same token, if it happend before, it must be suicide?

The power of statistics is it tells probability. Based on suicide statistics, it is more likely the Rebecca's death was a homicide or staged suicide. It does not tell us it was definitely a homicide, but it was more likey to be a homice. That's why the public demands LE to take another look at this case, not declaring it a suicide within such a short period of time.

 

[arielilane]

Smart move, RZ's family hired Dr. Wecht.

 

[SophieRose]

By the same token, if it happend before, it must be suicide?

The power of statistics is it tells probability. Based on suicide statistics, it is more likely the Rebecca's death was a homicide or staged suicide. It does not tell us it was definitely a homicide, but it was more likey to be a homice. That's why the public demands LE to take another look at this case, not declaring it a suicide within such a short period of time.

I didn't say the first statement. It's like 90% of (your own description) people are (fill in your own), therefore you meet a person of that description, you assume "Oh, they must be (fill in 2)." Doesn't work that way. So you can't always use stats to come to conclusions.

 

[SunnieRN]

I didn't say the first statement. It's like 90% of (your own description) people are (fill in your own), therefore you meet a person of that description, you assume "Oh, they must be (fill in 2)." Doesn't work that way. So you can't always use stats to come to conclusions.

:waitasec: Are you saying that you don't believe in statistics? Or that you think 90% of people have preset beliefs?

 

[thinkingstraight]

imho, and going strictly by what you typed above:

why didn't they take the thing out of her mouth? Probably because agter she was dead they had left her on her back long enough that rigot mortis was setting in her jaw (this would explain livor mortis on her back)

Untie her hands and feet? There may be marks, that would have needed to be explained, if she was found without her feet and hands bound. As it is they can not explain the tape residue.

Sad apology suicide note? It isn't an apology, it doesn't state anything about suicide. It is a riddle. Solve the riddle, solve the case.

So, murder is predominate in my mind for these and MANY other reasons/

I know it is a riddle. If it was a staged suicide, don't you think the murderers would have written or had her write a real suicide note - not some ambiguous creepy riddle?

 

[SunnieRN]

I know it is a riddle. If it was a staged suicide, don't you think the murderers would have written or had her write a real suicide note - not some ambiguous creepy riddle?

I believe that the riddle was directed toward the person who would understand the meaning behind it.

 

[thinkingstraight]

I believe that the riddle was directed toward the person who would understand the meaning behind it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is why would someone who was trying to stage a suicide write a riddle? That's awfully brave.

 

[SophieRose]

:waitasec: Are you saying that you don't believe in statistics? Or that you think 90% of people have preset beliefs?

No. If stats say 90% of lawyers are sharks, should I assume if I meet a lawyer he will be a shark. It's a conclusion based on stats. 90% of female nude hangings found outside are murder, therefore it's a murder. Or the opposite. Be careful of coming to conclusions based on stats.

 

[defense101]

No. If stats say 90% of lawyers are sharks, should I assume if I meet a lawyer he will be a shark. It's a conclusion based on stats. 90% of female nude hangings found outside are murder, therefore it's a murder. Or the opposite. Be careful of coming to conclusions based on stats.

No I think your lawyer stat is a preset belief imo

 

[tiredblondy]

I didn't say the first statement. It's like 90% of (your own description) people are (fill in your own), therefore you meet a person of that description, you assume "Oh, they must be (fill in 2)." Doesn't work that way. So you can't always use stats to come to conclusions.

I know a lot of organizations that would disagree. Companies who produce products use stats a lot.

 

[KarenM]

I didn't say the first statement. It's like 90% of (your own description) people are (fill in your own), therefore you meet a person of that description, you assume "Oh, they must be (fill in 2)." Doesn't work that way. So you can't always use stats to come to conclusions.

Statistics is about probability, not certainty. So the "must" in your statement is contradictory to what I said. The word "must" should be replaced by the phrase "more likely". Also, perception is not a good example for statistics. Statistics are based on verifiable and testable data. People's perception of lawyers being sharks is mere perception. It can be greatly biased by personal experience. A better example will be if 99% of people who jump out of a 10 story building ended up dead, more than likely, you will be dead if you jump out of a 10-story building.

In RN's case, since almost all public nude death with bound hands among women in the past were homicides, Rebecca's death was more likely (but not definitely) a homicide. It serves as a red flag to law enforcement to look closer. It has to be combined with other evidence (such as the hemorriges on her head and the antemortem events, etc.) to determine her cause of death. More investigation is needed hence.

 

[SunnieRN]

No. If stats say 90% of lawyers are sharks, should I assume if I meet a lawyer he will be a shark. It's a conclusion based on stats. 90% of female nude hangings found outside are murder, therefore it's a murder. Or the opposite. Be careful of coming to conclusions based on stats.

Stats are only as good as the method of collecting the information is.

There are LOTS of good reasons to use stats. Patient A has breast cancer. If they opt for treatment plan A, there is a 90% possibility that they will remain cancer free in 5 years.

If Patient A picks treatment plan B, there is a 75% chance that they will remain cancer free in 5 years.

The data is based on statistics. Who opted for which treatment and their outcomes.

I think pre conceptions, from the way we are raised, who we come into contact with, media, personal experiences, set our beliefs and conceptions at a much greater pace than statistics.

If you live with someone who constantly berates ice cream. Hates the stuff. Tells you that you should hate it. Bases their likes or dislikes of people centered on whether or not they like ice cream, there is a chance you will also feel that way. Much more so then if there was a chart that told you, 67% of people say ice cream tastes awful.

Just my :twocents:

 

[lauriej]

Smart move, RZ's family hired Dr. Wecht.

..their attorney anne bremner said the other day (09/13) that they have a list of experts that they have added to their team....excellent!

http://www.examiner.com/news-analys...cknai-doubted-rebecca-zahau-committed-suicide

Q---Thank you, I can understand your position. Please tell me what experts have come forward to assist you in your efforts.

A---"There has been an outpouring of support, from medical experts, scientists, handwriting analysts, the general public, and immediate offers of assistance from many individuals. We have formally added the following experts to our team:

Dr. Cyril Wecht, M.D., a noted pathologist, former medical examiner, and forensics expert who testified before the House Select Committee on Assassinations as the lone dissenter on a nine member forensic pathology panel re-examining the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Dr. Wecht has publicly stated that he would have declared the cause of Ms. Zahau's death as 'undetermined, pending further investigation.'

Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, Ph.D., an internationally renowned forensic scientist, criminologist, and expert in DNA analysis, Chairman of the Science Department at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City.

Dr. Maurice Godwin, Ph.D., an investigative psychologist who has experience in areas of criminal behavior, applied forensics and criminal investigations.

Dr. Lisa Boesky, Ph.D., a clinical psychologist and a national expert on suicide.

Dr. Carol Lieberman, M.D., M.P.H., a forensic psychologist from Beverly Hills, and trial analyst on Court TV, CNN, Fox News and other media outlets."

Q----Why is it so important to have so many high powered experts look into this case?

A----"One reason is because this case was prematurely closed without a proper investigation. The local authorities in Coronado and San Diego County have not returned personal property belonging to Ms. Zahau, nor have they unsealed their original search warrant. That document is a public record, and should be available under a public records disclosure request upholding government transparency."

 

[jjenny]

For the life of me I can't understand why authorities won't return personal property. They closed the case, they said it was iron clad, they are not investigating anything anymore. What rights do they have to keep RN's personal property? And why would they want to? Are they afraid it's not as "iron clad" as they claimed?

 

[coastal]

..their attorney anne bremner said the other day (09/13) that they have a list of experts that they have added to their team....excellent!

http://www.examiner.com/news-analys...cknai-doubted-rebecca-zahau-committed-suicide

Dang. That's quite a dream team, isn't it?
Good for them!

 

[SunnieRN]

I hope the Zahau family can get the financial backing they will need also! Lady Justice may be smiling down, knowing that a system of the people, by the people, for the people, still can get things done!!

 

[SunnieRN]

Please read this article. I didn't know where to post it, but when reading it, I cemented my belief even deeper within me that this is a murder.

The article is dramatized, not every fact was correct, there is a lot of information that would explain a lot of things, if the author is being truthful.

Mainly it paints a beautiful picture of the person that Rebecca was.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/09/18/what-really-happened-in-the-coronado-mansion.html

Let me know what you think please. I almost posted this in the 'arguments for suicide thread', as it seems to make the idea harder to accept.

 

[Brit]

The end of the orange-red braided marine towing rope which formed a noose around Ms. Zahau's neck, was anchored using a slip knot to a leg of the bed in her room. As someone has pointed out to us, there is a measurement showing the initial imprint of the bed leg, and the distance that it was moved, allegedly as a result of the weight of Ms. Zahau's body, when she allegedly hung herself.

If the bed's leg did in fact move, it would have been dragged across the carpet, leaving a skid mark or trail in the nap of the rug. In the photo, there is no sign of such a disturbance.

This is an excerpt from the below link
http://www.examiner.com/news-analysis-in-national/rebecca-zahau-cell-phone-log-shows-calls-during-her-last-hours

Don't know if this was posted before but thought this detail was interesting. How did the bed move without making drag marks on the rug?