The Conclusion

[Brefie]

Guess I am in trouble because I just bought some black duct tape this weekend.

Get rid of it quick!!! LMAO!

 

[narlacat]

Narlacat,

I like your last sentence ... and FINALLY something we ALL can agree on! Whether it was a Ramsey or intruder ... whomever did this to JonBenet ..... it worked.

Hi Capps
Amazing huh??
I'm sure if we tried hard enough, we could all agree on something!!

 

[narlacat]

Guess I am in trouble because I just bought some black duct tape this weekend.

I have black duct tape in my cupboard , but I live in Australia so is that counted ??

 

[capps]

Guess I am in trouble because I just bought some black duct tape this weekend.

deandaniellws,

You are now officially under the umbrella ...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Guess I am in trouble because I just bought some black duct tape this weekend.

Just because you have black duct tape doesn't mean your suspect. Unless you also own hi-tec boots! Oops I have both!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It has been pointed out before, and it is has been true to say, that black duct tape is commonly used on stages to indicate where a performer should, as the phrase goes, "hit their mark." In the Ramsey household, JonBenet had to meet many rigorous standards in her pageant career, and one of those standards was the ability to hit her mark on stage. Black is used because it stands out, a performer who might otherwise be blinded by stage lights can see the black better certainly than a light grey. In at least one of JonBenet's pageants you can see the mark at the center of the stage.

And if there was no legitimate application for black duct tape, why did McGuckin's hardware store in Boulder bother to sell it?

You're claiming that PR had a legitimate use for black duct tape, and the use was to mark the floor. There was no effort to get rid of the garrote, but there's no remnant of the black duct tape. Or the cord. Why?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Hi Capps
Amazing huh??
I'm sure if we tried hard enough, we could all agree on something!!

If an intruder was standing in the aisle at the hardware store deciding on what color duct tape to bring to a child-murder, he'd choose black over silver because it wouldn't show up as much in his car or on his person. Agreed?

 

[narlacat]

I'm trying......but no!
I don't think anyone bought the tape specially, I think it was already in the house.
I don't think JonBenet's death was pre meditated. I think it was a tragic accident.

 

[why_nutt]

You're claiming that PR had a legitimate use for black duct tape, and the use was to mark the floor. There was no effort to get rid of the garrote, but there's no remnant of the black duct tape. Or the cord. Why?

Are you asking why there was no effort to get rid of the ligature? I think that one is pretty simple.

You have tied a ligature around JonBenet's neck. You have tightened it enough to compress her vagus nerve, causing her heart to stop pumping blood to her brain, and simultaneously compressing the neck vessels enough to cause high fluid pressure above the ligature, causing petechiae, while also preventing blood from below the ligature to flow upwards into her brain, thus keeping the head wound from bleeding even more than it already had in the many layers it had bled into (not just the layer containing what people like to cite as being "not much blood"). So, you have a fairly tight ligature. Time to remove it.

Oh, wait.

In contemplating removing the ligature, you suddenly realize that your fingers, wearing either gloves that are shedding fibers like a dog in winter, or bare skin from which many cells are falling off right now, your fingers have to grasp the cord really hard to even begin to loosen it enough to remove it fully. You may have been a bit oblivious on this front prior to this moment, but you are not a stupid person, you do at least know that whatever you have to do, you will end up leaving a wealth of forensic evidence behind on JonBenet's hair and skin and clothing and the surfaces below her, even if you take the ligature off. So you decide that, as bad as things may be already because you should have thought of this earlier, you can at least not make them worse. So you leave the ligature in place.

As to why the remaining tape and cord were not left? The point stands as with my gingerbread house example given elsewhere; there is no proof that there was any tape or cord left after being used. There is no evidence that the tape and cord were cut in such a way that compels the theory of there being more. So why assume there was more cord and tape to be taken away? What, forensically, supports that assumption?

 

[Rupert]

Are you asking why there was no effort to get rid of the ligature? I think that one is pretty simple.

You have tied a ligature around JonBenet's neck. You have tightened it enough to compress her vagus nerve, causing her heart to stop pumping blood to her brain, and simultaneously compressing the neck vessels enough to cause high fluid pressure above the ligature, causing petechiae, while also preventing blood from below the ligature to flow upwards into her brain, thus keeping the head wound from bleeding even more than it already had in the many layers it had bled into (not just the layer containing what people like to cite as being "not much blood"). So, you have a fairly tight ligature. Time to remove it.

Oh, wait.

In contemplating removing the ligature, you suddenly realize that your fingers, wearing either gloves that are shedding fibers like a dog in winter, or bare skin from which many cells are falling off right now, your fingers have to grasp the cord really hard to even begin to loosen it enough to remove it fully. You may have been a bit oblivious on this front prior to this moment, but you are not a stupid person, you do at least know that whatever you have to do, you will end up leaving a wealth of forensic evidence behind on JonBenet's hair and skin and clothing and the surfaces below her, even if you take the ligature off. So you decide that, as bad as things may be already because you should have thought of this earlier, you can at least not make them worse. So you leave the ligature in place.

As to why the remaining tape and cord were not left? The point stands as with my gingerbread house example given elsewhere; there is no proof that there was any tape or cord left after being used. There is no evidence that the tape and cord were cut in such a way that compels the theory of there being more. So why assume there was more cord and tape to be taken away? What, forensically, supports that assumption?

Why_nutt has made the strongest points. I used to be IDI, then on the fence, and when I realized that the tying of the hands was just staging (the cord was first assembled on the garrote and the hands were not restricted), I then resigned myself that this all very sadly might be the coverup of an accident.

The cord is used for stage marking. That led me to think about McSanta's wife, the theatrical wife. But that should equally lead one to think about the pageant's. Well if it was an untruder with a vengeance for having lost a pageant competition to JonBenet, then the tape might have been used as a statement. According to forensics, I don't think there is any doubt that the tape was used as staging and stage marking.

Why_nutt has brought up some question about the minimal amount of blood in the head injury. I read the autopsy and it seemed to me that there was very little loss of blood period. That really kept me on the IDI path. How could any parent after such an emotial earthquake think so quickly and rationally to stop the internal bleeding by using a garrote? That really stumped me. However, if there is something we haven't noticed in the autopsy, I would sure like to know. It could be that the apparent minor loss of blood is explainable in itself and the garrote was applied as staging only. I think this is one of the key things in the whole JonBenet episode.

You all have made good points. This case is prone to interpretation in many different ways. Try to see clearly through the evidence. Happy sleuthing.:clap:

 

[narlacat]

QUOTE>>How could any parent after such an emotial earthquake think so quickly and rationally to stop the internal bleeding by using a garrote?<<

I thought the strangling came first, then the head blow?
To me it doesn't make much difference, either way, I still believe a Ramsey was involved. Either way, JonBenet suffered.
It's a bit like the sexual abuse issue, did it take place prior to the 26th? I can't take an experts opinion because they can't agree....I can go with the one who has the most credibilty but mostly I take into account the way she ended up and sadly conclude that there is a high possibility that she was.

 

[deanws]

Perhaps.
I lean heavily towards Burke as accidently killing his sister in a moment of sibling rivarly rage.

I do too.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Perhaps.
I lean heavily towards Burke as accidently killing his sister in a moment of sibling rivarly rage.

Yep that deep furrow in her neck, that crack in her skull, and the note straight out of a child-killer's mind sure make this seem like an accident.

Yeah sure u bet uh huh.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Rupert]

Yep that deep furrow in her neck, that crack in her skull, and the note straight out of a child-killer's mind sure make this seem like an accident. Yeah sure u bet uh huh.

I too find it hard to believe that the garroting was an accident. Even if it was a sex thing. That usually happens when they do it to themselves, pass out and nobody is around to save them. I can't imagine JonBenet doing this to herself.

I have read somewhere that a doctor in Denver remarked that there have been low bleeding head injuries, although rare in occurrence. Maybe this is just one of those, however unlikely.

This is the part of the case which we just can't seem to crack, unless JonBenet was first strangled and then bashed. It is hard to imagine a loving parent do that. I have no conclusion until I figure that out.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I too find it hard to believe that the garroting was an accident. Even if it was a sex thing. That usually happens when they do it to themselves, pass out and nobody is around to save them. I can't imagine JonBenet doing this to herself.

I have read somewhere that a doctor in Denver remarked that there have been low bleeding head injuries, although rare in occurrence. Maybe this is just one of those, however unlikely.

This is the part of the case which we just can't seem to crack, unless JonBenet was first strangled and then bashed. It is hard to imagine a loving parent do that. I have no conclusion until I figure that out.

The idea of JBR being 'accidentally garroted' has to be the most absurd idea yet.

 

[narlacat]

Yep that deep furrow in her neck, that crack in her skull, and the note straight out of a child-killer's mind sure make this seem like an accident.

Yeah sure u bet uh huh.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Uh huh
Who said anything about the note coming straight out of a child killer's mind?
I don't think Burke wrote the note.
I said in an earlier post I thought the strangling came first, then the head blow?(question mark)
I don't know, I can't decide.
Who knows if Burke didn't strangle her with something ( maybe the Nintendo cord), and knock her on the head moments after. Maybe he just lost it at her, after years of her being the family favourite and getting all the attention, especially Patsy's. Little boys need their Mum's too. John was away alot of the time to make up for the imbalance.
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.
Quite the opposite.
Maybe JonBenet was being molested by another family member that was not the killer.

 

[dingo]

I think the whole tradegy involves around BR and JBR playing a somewhat strange game in the basement after arriving home from the Whites.IMO the garrote was not meant to kill her,but as it was tightened around her neck she started to panic and thrash around making it impossible for BR to loosen the garotte,I think in her panic JBR may have hit her head on something solid to cause the damage to her skull.Then the coverup began.

 

[Zman]

I think the whole tradegy involves around BR and JBR playing a somewhat strange game in the basement after arriving home from the Whites.IMO the garrote was not meant to kill her,but as it was tightened around her neck she started to panic and thrash around making it impossible for BR to loosen the garotte,I think in her panic JBR may have hit her head on something solid to cause the damage to her skull.Then the coverup began.

How do you think the R's could possibly hide any anger towards BR for killing JBR accident or not? You make it sound like the R's put JBR's death behind them in minutes.

"Oh well, JBR's dead gotta protect B, now lets cover this up. Hey P break that paint brush handle and stick it in JBR for me will ya?

I can't imagine thinking straight enough to cover up for my son who I would be busy beating the heck out of and hope I wouldn't be going to jail myself.

Espcially when most BDI or even RDI people feel that BR was the shunned ignored child and the least favored of the two.

Lets not forget her head injury was not even seen until the autopsy was done. Thats how little damage was done to the outside of her skull and skin. This was not some random blow to the head.

 

[sissi]

If we think about what the intruder brought, would it eliminate more suspects? Let's pretend the information is correct, the string, black duct tape, stun gun, and bag of rope were brought along to aid in the commission of this crime. IMO that would eliminate all of the "fuzzy weird contacts", like santa, fleet, kids, gardeners, writers, etc.. It would suggest a burglar, one who carries these items as tools of his trade. Have we not noticed that many felons that are captured for murdering children have a history of breaking and entering. I think the "hottest" suspect would be an accomplice of Helgoth's, and I surely hope there is an investigative team that is willing to follow this path.

 

[IrishMist]

If we think about what the intruder brought, would it eliminate more suspects? Let's pretend the information is correct, the string, black duct tape, stun gun, and bag of rope were brought along to aid in the commission of this crime. IMO that would eliminate all of the "fuzzy weird contacts", like santa, fleet, kids, gardeners, writers, etc.. It would suggest a burglar, one who carries these items as tools of his trade. Have we not noticed that many felons that are captured for murdering children have a history of breaking and entering. I think the "hottest" suspect would be an accomplice of Helgoth's, and I surely hope there is an investigative team that is willing to follow this path.

These days I'm leaning toward a friend of JAR's. I go back and forth on this case. The clues, IMO, can support RDI and IDI. But the one thing I really, truly believe without a doubt is that JonBenét knew her killer. The comment about the secret visit from Santa sticks with me. And I think it's the only way to explain the pineapple.