The danger of a closed mind

[aussiesheila]

Is it really a 'fact' that John saw her? What if he knew she was in the wine cellar because he had put her there?

PMPT, p. 102:
White told the police he now remembered that when John pulled open the door to the wine cellar, he might have shouted "Oh my god, oh my God" a split second or so before he turned the lights.

That could have been because there was sufficient light at that time of day that the lights didn't have to be on at all to see the body. Or it could have been the reason you suggest. There is really no way of knowing for sure with the information we have. I guess that leaves us free to choose which one we believe, for the time being at least.

 

[sissi]

Aussiesheila, I find your post very interesting, the possibility of a "conspiracy to protect pedophiles in high places. Interesting as well was that Eller tried to do exactly what the ransom note writer said would be done if they called police. He tried to hold the body to "delay" a proper burial. Of course he had no grounds and his actions would have been illegal. Singular did a lot of "leg" work in preparing for his book, I don't know if many have read it, he seemed so close to finding such a group of pedophiles.

 

[Toltec]

Aussiesheila, I find your post very interesting, the possibility of a "conspiracy to protect pedophiles in high places. Interesting as well was that Eller tried to do exactly what the ransom note writer said would be done if they called police. He tried to hold the body to "delay" a proper burial. Of course he had no grounds and his actions would have been illegal. Singular did a lot of "leg" work in preparing for his book, I don't know if many have read it, he seemed so close to finding such a group of pedophiles.

Sissi....I can't believe that you would consider this statement regarding "protecting pedophiles" a possible scenario. You've been posting here for quite awhile and I don't ever recall you even posting a scenario regarding a child-sex scheme....or maybe I didn't read carefully. Are you one that believes the Nancy Krebs story?

 

[narlacat]

Aussiesheila, I find your post very interesting, the possibility of a "conspiracy to protect pedophiles in high places. Interesting as well was that Eller tried to do exactly what the ransom note writer said would be done if they called police. He tried to hold the body to "delay" a proper burial. Of course he had no grounds and his actions would have been illegal. Singular did a lot of "leg" work in preparing for his book, I don't know if many have read it, he seemed so close to finding such a group of pedophiles.

Well, he wasn't close enough, close but no cigar!
There is no evidence that half the town was present at the Ramsey house that Christmas night.
Most of the evidence points straight to the Ramsey's.

 

[sissi]

Sissi....I can't believe that you would consider this statement regarding "protecting pedophiles" a possible scenario. You've been posting here for quite awhile and I don't ever recall you even posting a scenario regarding a child-sex scheme....or maybe I didn't read carefully. Are you one that believes the Nancy Krebs story?

I believe the murderers knew the Ramseys. I don't know WHO they were, and yes, I found it difficult to dismiss all that Nancy had to say. There is every reason to believe that among the original group of suspects ,one or more could have been involved. Years later, some remain under that umbrella, long after the Ramseys were removed.

 

[narlacat]

The Ramsey's have not been removed.

 

[sissi]

Well, he wasn't close enough, close but no cigar!
There is no evidence that half the town was present at the Ramsey house that Christmas night.
Most of the evidence points straight to the Ramsey's.

No evidence points to the Ramseys, and no one is suggesting that "half of the town was present". It would only take one or two to "pick-up and deliver".
While I "feel" or should say "have felt" for a long time that the crime was committed by a neighbor, the emerging information does make one consider other scenarios.

 

[narlacat]

Politely disagreeing Sissi.
Yes, alot of the evidence points directly to the Ram's.
In Aussiesheila's theory every man and his dog were there that night.....with a new member of the group being the one responsible for JonBenets death.
There is nothing to prove that anyone other than a Ramsey was in that house that night.

 

[sissi]

The Ramsey's have not been removed.

They haven't? It seems a federal judge and a governor both believe it was most likely an intruder scenario. Who has them under that umbrella, the BPD? I would think that is irrelevant "at this time".

 

[sissi]

Politely disagreeing Sissi.
Yes, alot of the evidence points directly to the Ram's.
In Aussiesheila's theory every man and his dog were there that night.....with a new member of the group being the one responsible for JonBenets death.
There is nothing to prove that anyone other than a Ramsey was in that house that night.

It's perfectly okay to disagree, however we have to remain open minded to the possibility. There was evidence that can NOT be linked to the Ramseys, much unlike Danielle Vandam where there wasn't a "shred" ..was there!!!

 

[narlacat]

They haven't? It seems a federal judge and a governor both believe it was most likely an intruder scenario. Who has them under that umbrella, the BPD? I would think that is irrelevant "at this time".

Yeah and I wonder why they believe that....
It doesn't matter anyway, there is no active investigation underway anymore.
It will take a confession to solve this case.

Just my opinion.

 

[Paradox]

HeyChelleyourinboxisfull.

 

[Paradox]

No evidence points to the Ramseys

Never mind the DB in the basement.

 

[narlacat]

It's perfectly okay to disagree, however we have to remain open minded to the possibility. There was evidence that can NOT be linked to the Ramseys, much unlike Danielle Vandam where there wasn't a "shred" ..was there!!!

Sissi
I try to be openminded.
I don't know who killed JBR.
I just know the Ramsey's know who did.

 

[narlacat]

Never mind the DB in the basement.

Yes.
Let's not forget that.
Let's not forget also the pen and paper....
A bowl of pineapple with Patsy's prints on it...
No sign of forced entry...
Etc

 

[aussiesheila]

Sissi....I can't believe that you would consider this statement regarding "protecting pedophiles" a possible scenario. You've been posting here for quite awhile and I don't ever recall you even posting a scenario regarding a child-sex scheme....or maybe I didn't read carefully. Are you one that believes the Nancy Krebs story?

Toltec....The Nancy Krebs story has nothing directly to do with JonBenet's murder. Even if every statement of Nancy Krebs story is absolutely false, it makes no difference to the JonBenet case.

There are people including me, who had formed their theories a long time before her story came out, which was not until 2003, I believe or maybe it was 2001, I don't remember. Anyway it was many years after the murder and most people had formed their theories by then even if they didn't begin posting on this forum until after that.

It was clear from the newspaper descriptions of the crime at the time it happened that this was a child-sex crime, or at least it was to me.

 

[aussiesheila]

Politely disagreeing Sissi.
Yes, alot of the evidence points directly to the Ram's.
In Aussiesheila's theory every man and his dog were there that night.....with a new member of the group being the one responsible for JonBenets death.
There is nothing to prove that anyone other than a Ramsey was in that house that night.

narla, your claiming that 'every man and his dog' were present that night according to my theory is a bit much. My theory says there were at least three, one to manipulate the neck ligature, one to operate the stungun, and one to molest, taking it in turns there were a minimum of three I believe. I feel sure that there would have been one or two or maybe three more 'bystanders' one of whom I believe left early before the murder took place. That is a total of six. Please restrict the number to five or six when you discuss my theory again.

If non-Ramsey DNA under JonBenet's fingernails and on her panties is not evidence that someone else was in that house that night is not evidence to prove someone else was in that house that night I don't know what is.

 

[Eagle1]

............If non-Ramsey DNA under JonBenet's fingernails and on her panties is not evidence that someone else was in that house that night is not evidence to prove someone else was in that house that night I don't know what is.

Great big Amen to that! It's about the most important piece of evidence, everything else except maybe the "lint" STAGED to point to the family.

And isn't it too bad that ST told us JonBenet had "lint" on her feet, without saying between her toes or where, and what color, what kind of lint? Too bad also that the housekeeper didn't seem to be earning her pay, or maybe not, since that's what yielded the confounding lint on her feet clue.

 

[rashomon]

narla, your claiming that 'every man and his dog' were present that night according to my theory is a bit much. My theory says there were at least three, one to manipulate the neck ligature, one to operate the stungun, and one to molest, taking it in turns there were a minimum of three I believe. I feel sure that there would have been one or two or maybe three more 'bystanders' one of whom I believe left early before the murder took place. That is a total of six. Please restrict the number to five or six when you discuss my theory again.

If non-Ramsey DNA under JonBenet's fingernails and on her panties is not evidence that someone else was in that house that night is not evidence to prove someone else was in that house that night I don't know what is.

Some points:

- stungun experts Stratbucker and Tuttle completely disagreed with Lou Smit's stun gun theory, stating that they had never seen any stun gun marks which looked like the marks on JonBenet.

- a fixed double knot can't be used as a breath control device either - it doesn't slip.
Even if we go along (for discussion purposes) for a moment with it being a breath control device: the knot was tied on the back of JB's neck, therefore someone would have to be behind her to do the breath controlling.
In addition, your scenario is that JB was also hung up with her hands - how would the person doing the breath control have operated? He would have had to climb up a chair because JBs body was hanging down from the ceiling and then pull the cord at the back of her neck to do breath controlling? Isn't such a scenario a little absurd?

- since the ties around JB's wrists were so loosely bound, they would have come off if anyone tried to hang JB up on an 'overhead structure', like you said in another thread.

- the wrist ties seem more misconstructed than complicated to me - resembling something like a poorly tied shoelace.

- re the DNA: wasn't the DNA under JB's fingernails old and degraded?

 

[Camper]

Catching up reading, while I was busy busy last couple days.

Ahh, Nancy Krebs story. She certainly disappeared from the radar 'quickly'.

About the numbers of people who might have been at the R's that night. I have driven the alleyway a total of 3 times in the last 6 years. The alley seems narrower than alleys of later years. A car or numbers of cars could safely drive up and down the alley without being seen or detected by the neighboring homes, moo. (my own opinion)

I need another drive by, but I do remember there is room for two cars side by side to be parked on the garage apron. I noted also that it is a rather steep descent down to the garage from the alleyway. You could inmop, drive by and not even notice a car being parked DOWN there.

To deliver 'people' from the alley, would be a quick process. Exit vehicle, go directly into the low level garage and right into the home, while the delivery car would proceed on by. The driver could go elsewhere to be picked up by another car and then return with others, and that 'final' car could merely park undetected on the R garage apron, and into the house.

All of the necessary things needed for such as what Nancy described are plausible, BUT unprovable. Small pretty little girl, wealthy adults, out of town visitors.

People who participate in such activities are a 'select' group. I do wonder HOW these sorts of things ever get coordinated and put together??? Is there a directory for perverts, other than bathroom walls?

Oops forgot, computers and high tech, hmmm. BUT, as JR so aptly put, words to this effect, "It was an inside job". Was this just an accidental way of surmising the crime and the cause, OR, just because he read murder mysteries. Correct me if I err on the mystery reader in the family, JR or PR, my memory is slipping.

IF the R business was high tech computer industry. Could they have been sharp enough to make such activity disappear from their puters, nuthin' on the hard drive, huh? Could the lists of folks been merely put on another method of computer memory storage, and not appear on a hard drive?? I am not a geek about info storage, in fact I donut know what a blackberry is either. I don't keep up.

I would like Ms. Krebs to be interviewed today. Wonder HOW her health is NOW and her memory.

About lint and dust bunnies, everyone has em in their home somewhere. I do doubt that the R housekeeper kept up with all of the lint all of the time.

When the R house was built way back in the dark ages, old home, folks hung their clothes on a clothesline. DO WE know if the dryer in the home had an effective vent for the dryer? Maybe it was sort of an old 'JoeMagee' kind of a vent, maybe it vented into a crawl space with a dirt floor. The house was four levels, basement, main, second and third floor. Where and how do you vent the dryer in an olde house like that? Police probably checked that, ya think ?, I donut think so, BUT WE donut know.

I do believe JR was right in his assessment that it was an inside job. Why did he say it, and is he ever sorry for having said it?

Something that has always bothered me is the large bruise on front left side of Jon Benets neck, the knot or pressure would seem to me to have happened there during the murder, while the perpetrator was facing her.

Does anyone know if JR was right or left handed?

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