The Dixie Chicks

[Rino]

Disingenuous? Just kidding. But to meet your standard, a "documentary" would have to somehow film everything and edit nothing. There is no such animal. EVERY documentary involves choices that have to be made on some basis and which have an effect on the final product.

Yes, documentary makers generally feel a different responsibility to "objective" truth than is felt by some fictional film makers. But that difference is always and only a matter of degree.

Just because you, personally, reject ANY and EVERY suggestion that political authorities may be less than perfect doesn't mean the Paradise filmmakers abdicated their responsibility. I don't know anyone who accuses the filmmakers of undue bias EXCEPT the very miscreants their film exposed.

Disingenuous?, awww g'on :blushing:

Kudos to you, you managed to toss a few put downs, gracefully defend what we don't disagree on and make accusations based on.....hmmmmm....not real sure, but you're good at it

 

[Taximom]

Oh, I see now. Michael Moore's productions are categorized incorrectly as documentaries.

 

[Rino]

Oh, I see now. Michael Moore's productions are categorized incorrectly as documentaries.

Many people think so, as well as Al Gore's. Generally, agenda driven "documentaries" as of late are questionable.

I don't question the merits of the films in this case, state and refer to hard facts such as court doc's, legal arguments etc... That was all I meant. I think it is a worthy cause but she is so polorised a fugure I would have advised her to take a more cerebral tactic and not "watch some movies"

 

[Paladin]

Generally, agenda driven "documentaries" as of late are questionable.

Don't all documentaries have agendas? That's sort of the point. People don't make documentaries just because. There's usually a point to be driven home.

 

[Nova]

Disingenuous?, awww g'on :blushing:

Kudos to you, you managed to toss a few put downs, gracefully defend what we don't disagree on and make accusations based on.....hmmmmm....not real sure, but you're good at it

"Disingenuous" was just a joke, in kind with yours.

My suggestion that you have a knee-jerk tendency to defend established authority is based on my perception of the umpteen-thousand conversations we have had here at WS. It's an observation. Whether it's also a "put down" is up to you. If my perception is false, I will stand corrected.

My assertion that the "perfectly objective" documentary you propose is an impossible ideal is based on an extensive background in dramatic theory, a minimal background in film theory and production, and just plain common sense.

If your argument is that nobody should invoke a documentary under any circumstances, then kudos for consistency, but that, too, is an impossible standard to uphold. Like it or not, most people will not read all the available court records.

But even if they did, one of the problems with this case is that the court proceedings exclude so much of the story. And while I can understand that you would prefer journalistic accounts of the case, journalists face much the same issues and pressures as documentarians. Reporters also make decisions as to what to include and exclude, and how to arrange information so as to make it comprehensible to readers/viewers.

There is no perfect and complete "factual" account of this case.
The Paradise documentaries are as fair a source as any other, and certainly more complete than the trial transcripts alone.

 

[Nova]

Don't all documentaries have agendas? That's sort of the point. People don't make documentaries just because. There's usually a point to be driven home.

Indeed. In this case, the filmmakers set out to make a film about Satanism in rural American exploding into child murder. But they could find so little evidence of Satanism that they came to question their own suppositions and the original accounts by Arkansas LE and the local press.

By the second film, I suppose one may fairly claim the filmmakers had an "agenda" in their desire to expose an inept and corrupt judicial system. But how could they not, given everything they had witnessed during their first visit to West Memphis?

 

[nanandjim]

Oh, I see now. Michael Moore's productions are categorized incorrectly as documentaries.

Michael Moore laughed his fat a$$ all the way to the bank with money from the saps in America. He didn't get a dime from me, though.

 

[bnhall]

The Free the West Memphis Three defense fund has been around for a long, long time. I grew up two hours from where it happened. My grandpa drove a train through West Memphis 6 times a week (if you count going both ways). Their prosecution was a crock. I say Yay Natalie and anyone else pushing for some real justice.

 

[southcitymom]

Oh, I see now. Michael Moore's productions are categorized incorrectly as documentaries.

No doubt - we'd better take back his Academy Award - it was obviously given in the wrong category! All film - to include documentaries - indeed, all art of any sort has a point of view.

 

[bnhall]

Plus, what other way would the public know that Natalee and her friends are doing something good? Perhaps, her fans will contribute, go to their concerts and buy more of their CD's as a way to show their admiration and appreciation...

The Dixie Chicks need a way to constantly get their names in the news. They are not even a blip on the Country Music radar any longer...you know, the hick fans that they now so despise...the ones that made them rich and famous in the first place...

I think the hick fans despised them first. Who would want to make music for people who took so much pleasure in setting your CDs on fire?

 

[Mygirlsadie]

That hunka hunka burnin love didn't get a PENNY from me...(let alone a dime) :crazy:

Michael Moore laughed his fat a$$ all the way to the bank with money from the saps in America. He didn't get a dime from me, though.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm all for support and/or attention being drawn to the WM3. The fact that those boys are in jail is a travesty of any reasonable justice system.

Also - I'm all for women who won't shut their mouths!!! Feels like home....

 

[bnhall]

I love Michael Moore's show The Awful Truth. When he took the pink bus with the gay men gyrating on each other and followed around the Phelps church people, it was hilarious.

 

[gman20001969]

Indeed. In this case, the filmmakers set out to make a film about Satanism in rural American exploding into child murder. But they could find so little evidence of Satanism that they came to question their own suppositions and the original accounts by Arkansas LE and the local press.

By the second film, I suppose one may fairly claim the filmmakers had an "agenda" in their desire to expose an inept and corrupt judicial system. But how could they not, given everything they had witnessed during their first visit to West Memphis?

Hmm...I agree with Nova. The first film was made to somewhat point out possible Satanism in a rural part of Amercia. I remember watching this on HBO back when it first came out. I was ready to hang em high by the middle of it. Then in the end, I was on the fence. By the time I watched it again, I thought these boys (now in thier 30's) were screwed by a community that wanted justice no matter what.

 

[Nova]

Michael Moore laughed his fat a$$ all the way to the bank with money from the saps in America. He didn't get a dime from me, though.

It's one thing to be blind. It's quite another to brag about it.

 

[Olivia77]

Just added Paradise Lost to my netflix. I've been wanting to see it for a long time but our local video store doesn't have it.

 

[nanandjim]

It's one thing to be blind. It's quite another to brag about it.

At least, my money hasn't line Michael Moore's pockets...I'll bet that you can't claim the same...Money well spent, though, right?

 

[Nova]

At least, my money hasn't line Michael Moore's pockets...I'll bet that you can't claim the same...Money well spent, though, right?

No, but your money has certainly lined Haliburton's pockets, and those are far deeper.

Yes, I'm perfectly happy to send Michael Moore $8 every couple of years...

 

[nanandjim]

No, but your money has certainly lined Haliburton's pockets, and those are far deeper.

Yes, I'm perfectly happy to send Michael Moore $8 every couple of years...

Conversely, Haliburton has lined the pockets of my husband's company. You know, I'd much rather be blind than a fool whose ego gets pumped up by a few uneducated nitwits every now and then.

 

[Nova]

Conversely, Haliburton has lined the pockets of my husband's company. You know, I'd much rather be blind than a fool whose ego gets pumped up by a few uneducated nitwits every now and then.

I have no idea what you're talking about, nan. Do you?

Michael Moore hardly hides his point of view. He's expressed it quite clearly not just in his films, but in books, interviews, TV shows, etc. I'm well aware of his point of view when I see his films. That doesn't make me a sap or Moore a charleton.

I don't know to which fool you refer, but plenty of educated people find Moore provocative and interesting. The audience for documentaries isn't found primarily among the uneducated.

If you make money off of Haliburton, good for you. Doesn't make them any less crooked, but I'm glad some of the money they steal goes to somebody I like.