The Dixie Chicks

[Nova]

You do tend to twist things around to fit what you are saying.

Just because you don't understand what is being said doesn't mean anyone "twists" words. You are using a ridiculous definition of "politics" which apparently means only those statements you don't like. As JDB has written, that is not a reasonable definition.

(ETA I went back to JDB's post about Toby Keith in order to get the exact quote and explain the political aspect of the comment, but I see this was all explained quite clearly in previous posts. Bobbisangel, I'll let you do the homework.)

 

[Jules]

Okay. But the statement at issue consisted of (by my count. which is an estimate) 14 words. Good luck finding a concert where the singer doesn't speak at least that much.

Again, it's not the talking that was the problem... it was what was said.

I've been to MANY concerts over the years - from rock to pop to country. Yes, they do talk to the crowd, but not once have I been to one where they spout off about politics. In fact, having followed many musicians' careers, most will answer 'I don't talk about politics' when asked how they feel about such-and-such.

 

[Nova]

If my memory is serving me correctly...and it doesn't always...the Dixie Chicks made that statement in England....came back and jumped all over Toby because of "The Red, White, and Blue" went on TV where Natalee was going to say she was sorry but she...they...spent that time crying and carrying on. Then they disappeared for the past THREE YEARS...I believe...so they backed down for 3 years, lost millions of dollars...if anyone would have bought their CD's...and they lost fans. Three years later here they come picking up where they left off. They are either strong willed or stupid. If they were smart they would zip it up because they aren't doing their careers any good.

Maybe they think principles are more important than money.

I believe you are right that the statement was made in England.

I don't know anything about a feud between the Chicks and Toby Keith. (I'm not that up to date on country music. I like it fine, but I can't claim to be a true fan.)

They didn't "back down" for 3 years. They certainly gave interviews during that period.

They may have thought it wise to wait to release an album until after a cooling off period. (I'm not sure. Natalie, at least has small children, I believe. Maybe they took time off for personal reasons.) If so, obviously they underestimated the craziness of a large segment of the American public.

 

[Nova]

Again, it's not the talking that was the problem... it was what was said.

I've been to MANY concerts over the years - from rock to pop to country. Yes, they do talk to the crowd, but not once have I been to one where they spout off about politics. In fact, having followed many musicians' careers, most will answer 'I don't talk about politics' when asked how they feel about such-and-such.

Jules, please don't "again" me when you are restating my side of the argument. I'm not the one who claimed there is some enormous moral difference between speaking and singing.

If most musicians say "I don't talk about politics," we have only to look at this thread to see why. But that doesn't make their position admirable, just financially practical.

How sad that Americans - of all people - are applauding those too timid, too greedy or too brainless to voice opinions. Wasn't that one of our complaints about Saddam, that he kept people from speaking out? (Thanks to the poster who sent me this argument anonymously.)

Jules, if you haven't been to concerts where performers expressed political opinions, then your taste runs to gutless wonders. Try a Bruce Springsteen concert. John Mellencamp. U2. Sting. Linda Ronstadt. (I know, I'm dating myself.) Bob Dylan, of course, and Joan Baez. Don MacLean.

But this list is just off the top of my head and only includes performers I've seen personally.

 

[Jules]

I should not have started this thread :doh: .....

michelle, you should have started it in the Political Pavillion. :doh:

 

[nanandjim]

Maybe they think principles are more important than money.

I think that you can chalk it up to stupidity. Of course, they probably don't need the money. I liken it to an employee who--out of principle of course--tells his boss that he is ashamed of how he runs his business. Now, if an employee were smart, he would take action to make changes, not merely badmouth his boss. It is so easy to criticize others.

As far as 60 Minutes editting out anything the DC might have said about the troops: 60 Minutes is very liberal and so is CBS. Why on earth would they want to put a negative spin on anything that the DC said?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Good grief. Is this thread still going on? We have freedom of expression. We have freedom to own a gun. We have the right to be secure from unreasonable searches and seizures. Etc., etc., etc.

Now can everyone just agree to disagree and move on.

Then again, I guess it is none of my beeswax.



JMHO

Its that "freedom of expression" that allows this thread to continue.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks for your concern, Masterj, but Jeana is right. She and I go way*back at WS (How long have we been here now, Jeana, 8 or 9 years?) and sometimes we push the boundaries of the TOS a bit, but only in the way friends sometimes do. But thanks.

Its been a while, hasn't it?? You're one of the few posters who can actually change my mind on an issue (or at least question my position).
:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jules, please don't "again" me when you are restating my side of the argument. I'm not the one who claimed there is some enormous moral difference between speaking and singing.

If most musicians say "I don't talk about politics," we have only to look at this thread to see why. But that doesn't make their position admirable, just financially practical.

How sad that Americans - of all people - are applauding those too timid, too greedy or too brainless to voice opinions. Wasn't that one of our complaints about Saddam, that he kept people from speaking out? (Thanks to the poster who sent me this argument anonymously.)

Jules, if you haven't been to concerts where performers expressed political opinions, then your taste runs to gutless wonders. Try a Bruce Springsteen concert. John Mellencamp. U2. Sting. Linda Ronstadt. (I know, I'm dating myself.) Bob Dylan, of course, and Joan Baez. Don MacLean.

But this list is just off the top of my head and only includes performers I've seen personally.

I agree. Musicians have always used their voices to speak out about politics and its their right. My problem with them is the fact that they didnt' have the guts to do so in their own country. If they had been in Nashville or Texas or even California and made that comment, I may have disagreed with them, but I certainly wouldn't call them cowards.

 

[Marthatex]

I think that you can chalk it up to stupidity. Of course, they probably don't need the money. I liken it to an employee who--out of principle of course--tells his boss that he is ashamed of how he runs his business. Now, if an employee were smart, he would take action to make changes, not merely badmouth his boss. It is so easy to criticize others.

As far as 60 Minutes editting out anything the DC might have said about the troops: 60 Minutes is very liberal and so is CBS. Why on earth would they want to put a negative spin on anything that the DC said?

Unfortunately Congress was running our "business" too; we could have notified Congress we didn't want to go to war -ha ha, but they didn't have the correct information and neither did we.

Stupidity is brazenly going to war when the CIA, generals and others are saying it's not a good idea, and the intelligence is WRONG.

CBS and 60 minutes "liberal"? Oh horrors. Be sure and not watch them. Even I watch Fox and O'Reilly; I just listen to what I'm interested in; if I think it's turning into a bunch of spin I watch something else.

 

[Masterj]

Ohh here we go agian!! When they say someting about the Commander and Chief that ia against the TRoops. They had the chance on 60 minutes to say they support the troops . Guess what no it was all about THEM

When President Bush is over in Iraq fighting alongside our troops, who trusted him not to lead them into a war for fictious reasons, then I will support him. Until then, I will continue to support our troops, but not GWB.

And by the way, many people think it is "Commander and Chief," but it is actually "Commander-in-Chief."

 

[Nova]

Its been a while, hasn't it?? You're one of the few posters who can actually change my mind on an issue (or at least question my position).
:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Is there an emoticon for stunned speechless? Oh, right, this one:

:silenced:

( :blowkiss: )

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Is there an emoticon for stunned speechless? Oh, right, this one:

:silenced:

( :blowkiss: )

HaHa Did I mention that this topic ain't one of 'em??? LOL

 

[Nova]

HaHa Did I mention that this topic ain't one of 'em??? LOL

No, Jeana, but I assumed.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

No, Jeana, but I assumed.

Well don't get all delusional on me Nova! LOL

I've never said one thing about any of the celebrities who speak out about the war who've had the guts to do so on American soil. The Dixie Chicks were cowards in that they didn't have the guts to do likewise. No one, not even you, can make me change my mind about that.

 

[Marthatex]

I agree. Musicians have always used their voices to speak out about politics and its their right. My problem with them is the fact that they didnt' have the guts to do so in their own country. If they had been in Nashville or Texas or even California and made that comment, I may have disagreed with them, but I certainly wouldn't call them cowards.

Maybe they lost track of where they were.

 

[Nova]

Well don't get all delusional on me Nova!

Sorry, I meant I assumed you were NOT speaking about this issue.

I hear your argument about the "where" of the statement, but I don't understand the importance you place on it. They were speaking to a crowd of our closest allies. It's not as if they were addressing the Iraqi National Guard.

And in any event, in this age of global media, say something anywhere and you've pretty much said it everywhere. The idea that the DC were "hiding" in the UK because they were cowards doesn't make any sense. There's no way they thought their remarks were "private."

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Sorry, I meant I assumed you were NOT speaking about this issue.

I hear your argument about the "where" of the statement, but I don't understand the importance you place on it. They were speaking to a crowd of our closest allies. It's not as if they were addressing the Iraqi National Guard.

And in any event, in this age of global media, say something anywhere and you've pretty much said it everywhere. The idea that the DC were "hiding" in the UK because they were cowards doesn't make any sense. There's no way they thought their remarks were "private."

I agree that they're one of our closest allies, but they're NOT Americans. If they were so proud of what they had to say, why didn't they repeat it everywhere they went? That's what I mean by them being cowards. The fact of the matter is that they KNEW it was the wrong thing to say and that's why they didn't say it in America. Its true they weren't in hiding, but they sure weren't going on the Tonight Show saying either. They need to stick to their guns or shut the hell up.

If someone's got something to say about me, I'm going to give them a hell of a lot more credit if they had the guts to say it to my face.

 

[Nova]

I agree that they're one of our closest allies, but they're NOT Americans. If they were so proud of what they had to say, why didn't they repeat it everywhere they went? That's what I mean by them being cowards. The fact of the matter is that they KNEW it was the wrong thing to say and that's why they didn't say it in America. Its true they weren't in hiding, but they sure weren't going on the Tonight Show saying either. They need to stick to their guns or shut the hell up.

If someone's got something to say about me, I'm going to give them a hell of a lot more credit if they had the guts to say it to my face.

Well, most of us don't get to say anything to George W. Bush's face. In fact, he's pretty famous for insulating himself from all opposition.

Perhaps the Chicks just didn't get your memo on territorial appropriateness, on precisely what may be said at each moment in each venue.

And if they didn't repeat that precise sentence, they have said similar things in many venues, here and abroad. In fact they are still saying such things, despite paying dearly for being right about the war. If you think they were cowards 3 years ago, you must think they are heroes today.

The fact that everyone speaking against the Chicks seems to go through mental gymnastics trying to characterize the Chicks' "crime," argues strongly that some other factor is involved. So does that fact that so many are still nursing this grudge after 3 years.

 

[JDB]

Well, most of us don't get to say anything to George W. Bush's face. In fact, he's pretty famous for insulating himself from all opposition.

Perhaps the Chicks just didn't get your memo on territorial appropriateness, on precisely what may be said at each moment in each venue.

And if they didn't repeat that precise sentence, they have said similar things in many venues, here and abroad. In fact they are still saying such things, despite paying dearly for being right about the war. If you think they were cowards 3 years ago, you must think they are heroes today.

The fact that everyone speaking against the Chicks seems to go through mental gymnastics trying to characterize the Chicks' "crime," argues strongly that some other factor is involved. So does that fact that so many are still nursing this grudge after 3 years.

I am not nursing a grudge. Just would rather spend my Money somewhere else that is all.Kind of like when people ask you to boycott something. Same thing here.