The Doe Network, Part 2: Who is Princess Blue?

[Sable]

Is that the same way they would test the bone marrow for drugs? Would they test the tooth in that manner?

I have no idea if it's possible to test for drugs by using teeth. I have a busy day tomorrow, but tomorrow night I'll try to research it a little further if nobody else has an answer to that question.

 

[richandfamous]

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/PIIS0379073804004207/abstract

We extracted the DNA contained in samples of bones and teeth from 10 skeletons excavated from the Gravette site (400–1000 AD, south of France). Ancient DNA was analysed by autosomal short tandem repeats (STRs). The DNA present in these ancient remains appeared very degraded, but nevertheless, better conserved in tooth than in bone samples. Moreover, we showed that the DNA extracted from ancient dental pulp was not exempt from polymerase chain reaction (PCR) inhibitors, which could result from extreme DNA fragmentation. An adapted protocol with a supplementary step of purification removed this inhibition.

400 AD...if they can get dna from those skeletons, they can surely get dna from a few years old. I also heard that dna can be found in the wisdom teeth in young ppl. They are still in the jaw bone.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Thanks Sable!

I have no idea if it's possible to test for drugs by using teeth. I have a busy day tomorrow, but tomorrow night I'll try to research it a little further if nobody else has an answer to that question.

 

[LionRun]

Thanks friends. In particular I was wondering if bone marrow would be viable to test for drugs after 15 years of the skeletal remains being left out in the elements in the humid, warm climate of the Houston area. It is stated that there was no evidence of drugs found in Princess's bone marrow. So we can assume there was viable marrow for testing. The environment in which skeletal remains are kept has an influence on how long the marrow remains viable. The environment also plays a key role in the rate of decomp of the the bones. Eventually bones do rot--depending on how they have been kept. This link
http://www.anthro4n6.net/forensics/#TOD

is helpful. But, I need to know more. If I could get an answer from LE as to what was found in what condition perhaps I wouldn't have to wrack my brains so much.

In cases where bone marrow has been extracted from bones years after the person died the body was usually preserved somehow--even naturally by being buried and becoming mummified in a hot, dry area. Or, in cases where the body was frozen for hundreds or even thousands of years there is preservation of tissues enough to test for various things.

But, concerning a body lying outside, unprotected, in the humid, Houston area I would expect a particular rate of bone and soft tissue (eventually even marrow) decay. I just can't find research on it. If I can show that it is possible to extract viable bone marrow for the testing of drugs in remains kept out in the open in the Houston area of TX, 15 years after death, then our Princess may have gone to REL and graduated in 1975. That would narrow our search significantly. HS grads rarely wear their HS rings more than a couple of years or so after their graduation--especially back then when all HS rings looked like HS rings. These days HS rings are designed to sometimes not even look like HS rings, and I can see HS grads wearing them for longer. But not back then. So if Princess were from back then it shouldn't be that difficult to narrow down who she might be. For example, we could focus on female students who have no further records(marriage, addresses) after about 1980. Then we could try to track them down.

Another issue is the fact that her ring was found on her skeletonized finger. In the case of a body being left out the open there shouldn't be any small bones left, let alone being found intact with a ring till on it after a certain number of years in that climate. But, we don't know how her bones were found--except that her skull was in a tire. Where was the rest of her remains found? How were they found? Did they have reason to think that her remains had been previously preserved somehow? We don't know.

I was trying to narrow down the possibilities of when she died. An unknown TOD is a challenge to work with. And, I don't understand why there is no TOD. They went from a precise 6 months-1 year to unknown on the TX dps site. That is a huge leap. To me that makes no sense--unless I know more. Why if a forensic anthropologist recently did a work up on Princess Doe would there be no new estimate for the TOD?

Sorry for this long, drawn out post. I hope I didn't give anyone a headache.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Also are there any old newspaper articles of when she was first found?

suzanne

 

[LionRun]

Hi
Also are there any old newspaper articles of when she was first found?

suzanne

Good morning suzanne. That is a very good question. I know that, The Houston Chronicle" was in circulation at that time; however, Manvel is south of Houston, and her story may or may not have made it to that paper. I have been trying to do a search of bodies found from 1975 to 1990 anywhere in the Houston area. I only found the one article that we have posted on our site. Who knows? There may be some article somewhere that we haven't found yet. I sure would love more info on her. But, it has been so long, and info has a tendency to dry up over time--if there was any to begin with. I will keep looking though.

Lion

 

[LionRun]

Hi
Also are there any old newspaper articles of when she was first found?

suzanne

I am glad you asked that question, suzanne. So far I found this. Sgt. Coffman of Manvel PD has these cases on his already big case load. It turns out there are at least 2 UID females, one is Princess Blue, and the other was found 3 years later. Both were found about 1 mile from the police dept.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=4680827&ft=med

"....Sgt. Coffman said, "It makes it very difficult, because sometimes there are wounds that they sustained that we're not able to determine."
There are two other unsolved cases. Those both involve women victims. Their skeletal remains were found in 1990 and 1993. Both of them were just about a mile from the police department. If you have any information on any of these cases, you're asked to call the Manvel police....snip"

The Manvel PD is located at
19701 Morris Ave (also known possibly as Texas 6)
Manvel, TX 77578

We already know from previous reports that Princess Blue was found off a country road in Brazoria County, more specifically in the town of Manvel. It was also described as a known dump site. If both skeletal remains were found within about 1 mile of the Manvel PD they may have been found near each other. It is possible that they were dumped at about the same place, about 3 years apart. I wonder if there is a possible connection. Manvel was and still is a small town. It may be unusual to find two female bodies near to each other that are not connected. I am going to research further.

ETA: I cannot find any info for the female's skeletal remains found in 1993. I cannot find her on the doenetwork or the NCMA site or the TX dps site.

I took a good, long look though, at the UID's for the Houston area including Harris County, League City, Brazoria County, and Manvel. There sure seems to be a number of young women and teen UID's found in those areas in the 80's and early 90's. Perhaps this is typical for a large city like Houston. But, it seems like there a number of similar cases. In the case of Princess Blue and in at least one other case bodies with similar descriptions were found in the exact same areas.

I am doing this research while waiting to start working on the yb. I don't mean to refocus the investigation in a direction other than finding Princess Blue's ID. But, once I read that there was another UID girl or woman found right near where Princess was found 3 years later, in the small town of Manvel, I wanted to see if there might be a connection.

Lion

 

[MrsG728]

Do you think we should delete her and then MrsG can add her under her maiden name where she belongs or just move her down to where she belongs and change her last name to her maiden name?

Yes I think I should really mpve her down to her maiden name as suggested Who knows, she may have been known by her new name so long, that's how they listed her. Good looking out guys.

I love reading people's comments, suggestions, and zebra ideas on this... it's been so interesting and I feel like I am lurking again.

MG

 

[MrsG728]

The Manvel PD is located at
19701 Morris Ave (also known possibly as Texas 6)
Manvel, TX 77578


ETA: I cannot find any info for the female's skeletal remains found in 1993. I cannot find her on the doenetwork or the NCMA site or the TX dps site.

I took a good, long look though, at the UID's for the Houston area including Harris County, League City, Brazoria County, and Manvel. There sure seems to be a number of young women and teen UID's found in those areas in the 80's and early 90's. Perhaps this is typical for a large city like Houston. But, it seems like there a number of similar cases. In the case of Princess Blue and in at least one other case bodies with similar descriptions were found in the exact same areas.

I am doing this research while waiting to start working on the yb. I don't mean to refocus the investigation in a direction other than finding Princess Blue's ID. But, once I read that there was another UID girl or woman found right near where Princess was found 3 years later, in the small town of Manvel, I wanted to see if there might be a connection.

Lion

Lion

Awesome info, Lion. Did Coffman give you any address for the dump site? still looking to "google earth" it!

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

This site somewhat goes into the details of the missing girls around Harris County, TX

http://www.crimesearch.net/Page2.html

 

[Kymistry35]

The medical examiner in Washington is very nice, I have spoken to her before regarding a case, maybe I can give her a call and ask her some questions about DNA and marrow if someone wants to send me a list of what needs to be asked. I am off Tueday and can do it then or Monday after 4pm.

 

[Jaded]

This site somewhat goes into the details of the missing girls around Harris County, TX

http://www.crimesearch.net/Page2.html

There are a few girls on there whose bodies were never found. How far is this from where Princess Blue was found?

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Princess Blue was found inside the V area that the 2 roads form (Highway 6 and I-45S) She was found a little closer to SH288 than #8 & #9 victims but further north going towards I-45S. That map doesn't show the Manvel road but if you google Galveston, TX a map will come up and you will see the roads (Hwy 6 & I45S) that form the V. Follow Hwy 6 northwest (I hope that's right. I don't do maps well, lol) and you will run into Manvel (to get to Manvel you head north off of Hwy 6).

There are a few girls on there whose bodies were never found. How far is this from where Princess Blue was found?

 

[Jaded]

I think we need to ask LE if all missing women from 1975 - 1989 have been ruled out, since they have recently adjusted the TOD to undetermined. Thoughts?

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

I agree. I had thought about FAXing LE in the surrounding counties with Princess Blue's new information and asking them to review missing persons cases to see if any fit Princess Blue's stats. What do you think?

I think we need to ask LE if all missing women from 1975 - 1989 have been ruled out, since they have recently adjusted the TOD to undetermined. Thoughts?

 

[LionRun]

The medical examiner in Washington is very nice, I have spoken to her before regarding a case, maybe I can give her a call and ask her some questions about DNA and marrow if someone wants to send me a list of what needs to be asked. I am off Tueday and can do it then or Monday after 4pm.

Thank you teons. The exact questions are:

Is it possible for there to be bone marrow that can be tested for drugs in 1990 which was extracted from skeletal remains of a body that was dumped out in the open in the Houston, TX area(temperate climate with bouts of heat and humidity), in 1975?

Also, for how long can bone barrow still be viable for the testing of drugs if the body is dumped out in the open in the Houston, TX area (temperate climate with bouts of heat and humidity)?

Lion

 

[LionRun]

I think we need to ask LE if all missing women from 1975 - 1989 have been ruled out, since they have recently adjusted the TOD to undetermined. Thoughts?

I totally agree. And, that is why I am trying to get the question about the bone marrow answered. That might help to confirm whether or not it was possible that Princess Blue was killed from 1975 to 1990.

Perhaps I can call Brazoria County Sheriff's Office on Monday.

Lion

 

[LionRun]

I agree. I had thought about FAXing LE in the surrounding counties with Princess Blue's new information and asking them to review missing persons cases to see if any fit Princess Blue's stats. What do you think?

Excellent idea RKnowley(as usual!). And, perhaps you could ask each one to fax the info to any other LE agencies they can think of, too.

Lion

 

[LionRun]

Princess Blue was found inside the V area that the 2 roads form (Highway 6 and I-45S) She was found a little closer to SH288 than #8 & #9 victims but further north going towards I-45S. That map doesn't show the Manvel road but if you google Galveston, TX a map will come up and you will see the roads (Hwy 6 & I45S) that form the V. Follow Hwy 6 northwest (I hope that's right. I don't do maps well, lol) and you will run into Manvel (to get to Manvel you head north off of Hwy 6).

Manvel PD is located on TX 6 aka Morris Ave.

From the 3 different maps I have, it seems that 8 and 9 were found possibly within 1 or so miles from the Manvel PD(19701 Morris Ave aka Texas 6). I am thinking that we have this right. I am not positive--but how many female UID's would a small town have in the same area for goodness sake?

ETA:
http://www.crimesearch.net/Page2.html

Brooks Bracewell(#8) and Georgia Geer(#9), ages 12 and 14, disappeared possibly from a convenience store on 9/6/74 in Dickenson(about 30 miles east of Manvel), TX and were found at points 8 and 9 on that map.

When I look at where 8 and 9 are on the map it does appear the dump site is located in or very near Manvel. Remember when we read that Princess Blue's body was found in a known dump site, and that at one point about a body a month was being dumped in that area. It seems some are still UID's and some of the missing may have never been found--just like Jaded pointed out. This is what I was noticing when I too a good long look at the UID's from the 80's and early 90's. It seems this may go back to the mid 70's--thanks to what RKnowley has found.

I would like to find more info in every direction from the missing stats to the UID stats in the entire area to look for a more defined pattern--if one exists. It could be that there was one or more serial killers operating in that area for a number of years. Some of the cases are probably not related; but, at first glance it seems some might be related.

Lion

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

I will get started on that now. How many counties over from Harris & Brazoria counties do you think I should include? Just those bordering them or should I include more than that?

Excellent idea RKnowley(as usual!). And, perhaps you could ask each one to fax the info to any other LE agencies they can think of, too.

Lion