luvbeaches.... i certainly can't convince you of something you're not willing to have an open mind about.. but i find it odd that you seem to have them all figured out, with little evidence to support your ideas. it seems like you have a rather twisted view of them. and a lot of that stuff you said is pure speculation. i don't see the wife as a helpless, unwilling, brainwashed 'victim' of the all-powerful, brainwashing, cult-leader Jim Bob. from everything we have seen and heard, the whole big-family thing was her idea too.
The Duggar Family: 18 Kids & Counting
- Thread starter Lesleegp
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luvbeaches
New Member
Ummmm....I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you are. You can think it's as "odd" as you want that I don't agree with you.
If you think the Duggars are great parents...then so be it. I don't. I suppose if we agreed on this, I'd have an "open mind" in your opinion. lol This is a forum, and just because I don't agree with YOU, doesn't make my take on this invalid.
And as for the idea of the whole-big family being her idea also...It's the isolation, lack of an education and the amount of daily household chores and the raising of their siblings that's wrong in my opinion. I have kids. We raised the kids. No need to saddle any of my children as "buddies" with their 6 month old siblings.
As I said before...I'll take a pass on the Kool-Aid at Duggarville.
They've said time and again that they go on field trips and I've seen footage of them ice skating and they go bowling too. They readily admit they only socialize with like minded families. Guess what, so do we. I don't hunt down people I don't like or have nothing in common with to socialize with. Bet y'all don't either. Remember, we are seeing a very small slice of their life.
Where's the proof of lack of education? Have you seen or read home school curriculum? Why do you think many home school kids exceed or equal their public school peers? Esp in this day and age when one study that asked students about World War II and 70% of them thought we fought WITH Germany against Russia! I can bet her kids know the difference.
They have to take the same entrance exams to get into college as the next guy. Nearly every college in America, including Harvard, Stanford, William and Mary among others are actively recruiting home schooled students.
MY kids help, I'll bet nearly every parent with more than one child has had their older one help on some level. Grab a diaper, stick the pacci back in, help tie shoes etc. With a large family of course some of the burden falls on the ones old enough to help. Everyone is so willing to say it takes a village but ya know what...that begins at home.
Chores make for a very responsible adult. Granted some kids grow up responsible without doing any chores but most have at least 1. Personally, I don't pamper my kids while I slave away. They make a mess, they clean a mess...period. I'm not their maid and they are not my servants.
We use a buddy system in schooling. My older ones sit and read or help with hand writing with the youngers. It's covered under life skills and teaches them patience. It also fosters bonding as well. Sometimes they have a technique that they've learned that helped them and they want to pass it on, sometimes they just want to be 7 again and read Dick and Jane without actually grabbing the book for themselves lol
And yes, I've asked my kids if they mind. The answer...why should we? Team work is stressed. Not to the extreme that they take it, then again I have a few less but I do have way more than the average.
And seriously, do you honestly think all she does is have sex? That's like what...30-45 mins tops? She's got plenty of time to do the hundreds of other things that families have to do in a day. Remember they edit these shows to show us what they think we want to see.
And as for making fun of his name. Double names are very common in the South, I don't see what's so funny about that.
This whole hatred towards someone who is not abusing their kids, has not thrown them away, don't lock them up in cages of wire or the hundreds of other evil things we read about daily, baffles me. It's like damned if you do, damned if you don't....just don't be different for goodness sake!
Where's the proof of lack of education? Have you seen or read home school curriculum? Why do you think many home school kids exceed or equal their public school peers? Esp in this day and age when one study that asked students about World War II and 70% of them thought we fought WITH Germany against Russia! I can bet her kids know the difference.
They have to take the same entrance exams to get into college as the next guy. Nearly every college in America, including Harvard, Stanford, William and Mary among others are actively recruiting home schooled students.
MY kids help, I'll bet nearly every parent with more than one child has had their older one help on some level. Grab a diaper, stick the pacci back in, help tie shoes etc. With a large family of course some of the burden falls on the ones old enough to help. Everyone is so willing to say it takes a village but ya know what...that begins at home.
Chores make for a very responsible adult. Granted some kids grow up responsible without doing any chores but most have at least 1. Personally, I don't pamper my kids while I slave away. They make a mess, they clean a mess...period. I'm not their maid and they are not my servants.
We use a buddy system in schooling. My older ones sit and read or help with hand writing with the youngers. It's covered under life skills and teaches them patience. It also fosters bonding as well. Sometimes they have a technique that they've learned that helped them and they want to pass it on, sometimes they just want to be 7 again and read Dick and Jane without actually grabbing the book for themselves lol
And yes, I've asked my kids if they mind. The answer...why should we? Team work is stressed. Not to the extreme that they take it, then again I have a few less but I do have way more than the average.
And seriously, do you honestly think all she does is have sex? That's like what...30-45 mins tops? She's got plenty of time to do the hundreds of other things that families have to do in a day. Remember they edit these shows to show us what they think we want to see.
And as for making fun of his name. Double names are very common in the South, I don't see what's so funny about that.
This whole hatred towards someone who is not abusing their kids, has not thrown them away, don't lock them up in cages of wire or the hundreds of other evil things we read about daily, baffles me. It's like damned if you do, damned if you don't....just don't be different for goodness sake!
Wow,, god forbid.. a child have a 'buddy', or have chores, or help raise their siblings!!! Horrors!!! I know... how about we lock each one up individually in a closet all day by themselves with nothing to do.. would that be better..?
Every kid should BE so lucky as to have loving siblings that look out for them, or loving and loved siblings that they have a part in taking care of.
I sure wish *I* had that growing up! Teaches responsibility, purpose, the value of hard work, and prepares them for raising their own kids (if they have any),, don't you think?
Plus.. I seriously doubt any of these kids would ever feel lonely, or be sad they have no one to play with. I know what it's like to grow up alone, isolated, and have no one to play with. Believe me,, it sucks!
But you certainly have a right to your opinion, of course.. and you don't have to drink the 'Duggarville kool-aid' (lol). I was just surprised to see the hatred towards these people. The overpopulation problem, yes.. I have an issue with... but when I saw how this family was, I would rather see people like these having 17 kids, and then just sterilize half the rest of the human race.
Every kid should BE so lucky as to have loving siblings that look out for them, or loving and loved siblings that they have a part in taking care of.
I sure wish *I* had that growing up! Teaches responsibility, purpose, the value of hard work, and prepares them for raising their own kids (if they have any),, don't you think?
Plus.. I seriously doubt any of these kids would ever feel lonely, or be sad they have no one to play with. I know what it's like to grow up alone, isolated, and have no one to play with. Believe me,, it sucks!
But you certainly have a right to your opinion, of course.. and you don't have to drink the 'Duggarville kool-aid' (lol). I was just surprised to see the hatred towards these people. The overpopulation problem, yes.. I have an issue with... but when I saw how this family was, I would rather see people like these having 17 kids, and then just sterilize half the rest of the human race.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Fabulous post!!!
What a great post! Boy, the last sentence (that I bolded) REALLY seems to be the truth. Here we have a family who, by all accounts, is happy, healthy and doing their own thing w/o hurting or bothering a dang soul. Homeschooling does NOT automatically equate to being uneducated...quite the opposite as you indicated above. The children do not appear or act uneducated one bit. Quite the opposite, in fact, they seem very well adjusted, well spoken, balanced and seem perfectly happy with their place and role in their family unit.
I don't understand the mindset that if it's not what is considered the norm, or typical, that it must be automatically be wrong or be condemned. Different things are not always bad - as evidenced in this case. Change can be good. With all the horrible things we read about kids and families on Websleuths, it really surprises me that this family can be so easily critiqued and criticized-especially because we are so aware of the stories of families going horribly wrong.
Admittedly, I was initially turned off by these parents and their ways and thought of them as kind of "antiquated". Now that I have opened up my mind a bit, and watched them more, I think the word that I would be more apt to apply to them instead of antiquated is.....evolved. Truly. They're doing their own thing AND prospering. Good for them. They have chosen a different way to spend their lives, stepped back and not participated in the typical rat-race, busy, chaotic, nonstop and cramped lifestyle that so many families get caught up in.
Three cheers to doing your own thing!
Hopeful One
Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones who
Great post, BhamMama!!
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
I think "hatred" is a pretty strong word to try and describe people merely expressing their opinions. This family put it all out there for the world to see so they should be able to take people expressing their opinions about it and so should the members of this forum.
Okay, your right, hatred is a bit strong. How about a strong dislike bordering on disgust? rofl. And it's not that I can't take it....like I mentioned before. I don't understand it. So this is my own personal frustrations and opinions. I'm just trying to get where I see all points. I'm not there yet lol
No seriously, I think some of have made it clear that they don't like them, don't like home schooling, don't like the way they dress, don't like their system etc.
But to make fun of these kids by calling them children of the corn....when that's evil right? Or by demeaning their parenting because it's different, or even by saying her kids will not make it in the real world is just so confusing to me when we have a world of people who hurt and dispose of their children for nothing more than they cried or pooped their pants.
I'm not saying like them, or even change your mind. But as one parent to another, respect their choices. Just because others can't do it, or don't want to, is not a need to knock others.
Maybe I'm biased. I grew up in a HUGE family. Looking back to my childhood others might consider that abuse too. We had a well...that we drew ourselves, no indoor plumbing, just an outhouse, we all pitched in and picked up and cleaned eggs, pitched hay, bush hogged, planted a garden, cleaned the house and generally I did more chores by 6 am than most people did all day, except my neighbors who were in the same boat. Some might be surprised to know this was 1980 we are talking about.
It wasn't abuse to me, it was being part of a family. I can honestly say, I'm not afraid of hard work and I love my indoor plumbing lol I also have 68 cousins who know where I'm coming from and they are who I go to when I feel out of step with the rest of the world. Not always a bad thing to be different.
luvbeaches
New Member
I agree completely.
I certainly do not hate these people, but I do find what they are doing to their children very sad. And this is a forum, and this is just how I feel about this particular family.
I have nothing against home-schooling, but I do question what's going on in the Duggar household. The older kids are teaching the younger ones...and Michelle was teaching the others. What qualifications does she have to do this (at least with the older ones)? I have friends who home-school and there's a huge network out there for resources to help them get their children as good, or better of an education as regular public/private school students. I do not see the Duggars doing any of this.
They isolate their children from the world...and they overload them with chores and child rearing that should be shouldered by the parents. If you can't raise your own kids, and you have to dump your 6 month old child on a "buddy" then, IMO, it might be time to quit having kids.
Those that feel so strongly that the Duggars are this wonderful family and things are normal in Duggarville...whatever...that's their opinion. I just don't happen to agree with it.
I don't know why it's so darn hard for some posters to understand that just because I don't agree with them, that what I am saying is somehow "wrong" or that I am closed-minded. lol I could certainly say the same thing about them, but then again, this is a forum, and we're all entitled to our own opinions.
luvbeaches
New Member
Your confusing dislike with concern for the children. And I have nothing against home-schooling if it's done properly. I just don't happen to think that's what's going on in the Duggar household. And I question anyone, not just the Duggars, who'd have so many kids that being a "kid" isn't happening, but instead, they are saddled with way too much responsibility around the home and with their younger siblings. I think that's abuse....plain and simple. My kids had chores...but those kids work at keeping the house and raising the children. Maybe mom and dad should take a look at that before they add another Duggar to the kids' jurisdiction lists.
Like Jeana said, they are on TV, and they've put themselves out there for discussion. As far as "knocking" others, I see what they're doing as questionable, but again, they're on TV and they're presenting themselves to the public.
Is this just a sensitive issue to you because you grew up in a large family? My family was huge...I have cousins who had 12 siblings. Life in their household was always fun...always something going on.
But they did normal things...Scouts, schooling (and some were home-schooled), they had paper routes, they had part-time jobs, they were involved in group sports...basically, they led normal lives and grew up to be productive human beings because they were'nt kept isolated from the rest of world.
I think it's in the best interest if we do question what's going on. Just take a look a Warren Jeffs. Can you imagine if no one did a thing or just let him do "his" thing? Not that that is going on in Duggarville, but IMO, all is not well in Duggarville...contrary to the fresh-faced, clean-dressed kids. And that's nothing more than my opinion, which in this world and on this forum counts just as much as yours does.
In reality, I could take your post and add your name, make a few modifications and turn it back to you. But I respect the fact that we have differening opinions on this issue. I wish you'd do the same.
jilly
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I had a conversation with an elderly woman the other day about this case. She was the eldest of 10 children and she said she had a very hard life because of it. She was totally robbed of her own childhood. As a result, she only had one child herself.
Hopeful One
Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones who
I can totally see this happening. I think it depends on the family and the personality of the child. Some might thrive with so many siblings but some may feel they are robbed of their parents' attention, their childhood, etc. I'm very curious to see how the Duggar children turn out as adults.
Oh I am too. I am betting the girls will all end up pregnant a zillion times creating lives for their children the same way life was for them. Sad!
Excuse me, I've not pointed fingers. Please don't point at me. If you had read my entire post you'd see where I said this was MY issue.
So this is my own personal frustrations and opinions. I'm just trying to get where I see all points. I'm not there yet lol
Never once did I imply that your opinion is wrong or that I don't respect anyone because they have a differing view. I'm trying to see all sides. I admit that I'm trying.
I shared my experience and my opinion from a person who has many children, who home schools, who does many of the same things the same, from the clothing, to the buddy system, to how we choose to live our life...period. No need to get personal. I don't expect people to like it, don't even care a flying fig. Thought I'd share. Not trying to get anyone to change their views.
When I say YOU it's a general YOU.
Oh I am too. I am betting the girls will all end up pregnant a zillion times creating lives for their children the same way life was for them. Sad!
I've said this earlier. I'm trying to understand. Why is is sad?
Some people feel that having a lot of children is a blessing and even a calling from G-d. I see it as the highest calling and my job as a woman. To me, it is what I was put here for.
Why is exclusion sad? Many religious people do it.
Just to share, we don't do worldly things, from music to clothing. It's all related to how we choose to walk in this world. I don't eat pork, I pray often, I even cover my head most days. To some that's the same thing as submitting or exclusion if you will. To me it's a personal extension of my faith.
I see some of what they are doing as the same. Being not of the world doesn't make one stupid, or backwards, or less than. IMHO. Just different. Not to be pitied. I also don't see it as concern for my children's well being when others express disdain. I see it as judgment of my lifestyle by someone who either doesn't understand or by something I just can't explain. (not saying that's you....it's how I perceive comments I've gotten)
Is it because so many think that girls shouldn't stay home and have babies and they think they should be out getting a job or maybe living a life more in line with the main stream? What if that is their calling?
I'm not trying to be snarky, I am really interested.
It is called...having a choice. I am a retired teacher. I KNOW that Mrs. D can't teach it all. I have a graduate level education and COULDN'T teach it all. The children are not getting all they need in an education. If the girls had a good education, yet still didn't want to attend college...fine. If they decide they WANT to go to college, do you REALLY think they could score high enough on the SAT to get a scholarship or gain admission? I REALLY doubt it. Like I said earlier, we will see in the next few years how many of the girls attend college. I bet it will be way lower than the national average.
Why yes, I do.
Of course you can't teach every single second of school. But we come mighty close. As with all schooling, there are gaps. I'm not sure my kids can recall ever Roman leader from the beginning, then again, most public schooled children probably can't either.
Even if they chose not to go to school, I think that's fine too. I just don't think that going to college or not plays a large part in being a well rounded, grounded, happy person. It's also not something that should define them as a person.
Thanks for answering.
luvbeaches
New Member
Well, you did say this.
So because some of us question what's going on in the compound and what's going on with their education, it's "hatred."
To each his own. I've got kids and they had chores and they've had hand-me-downs, but that's not what I see going on at the Duggars. I see kids that are not getting a proper education and kids that are overloaded with chores and way too much responsibilities when it comes to raising their siblings. We had kids, but never had to "hoist" off child rearing to them. And that's just my point of view.
What I am posting is my feelings (same as you) and my observations. I personally think the Duggars are just plain selfish. The kids do not have a normal life. Quite the opposite. Kids should have the luxury of being kids...and along the way, they should be allowed to learn, grow and make decisions for themselves that will one day allow them to enter the real world and become productive human beings. That's not going to happen to the Duggar kids. They aren't being sheltered...they are being isolated and used by their selfish parents who for whatever reason can't see that they're overworking and under educating their children. I've seen no proof that Michelle is qualified to be teaching the older children, nor have I seen any proof that they utilize the vast home-school network that is out there that would enable the kids to get a good education. I see a couple of rabbits...and that's about it.
Michelle said she hopes the next kid is a girl because they love all the lace and whatnot. Yeah, that's a good reason to pop out kid number #18 (or whatever they are on).
I never said going to college did. I said that I would like for them to HAVE THAT CHOICE. I disagree with you...I am willing to "bet the farm" that they CAN'T score well enough to gain scholarships or even well enough to gain admission into the college of their choice. I guess time will tell. As for your Roman example? Probably not! LOL!
luvbeaches
New Member
Every single one of my cousins have had one or two kids (they came from a large family). We always had fun at their house (there was always something going on), and holidays were a hoot, but like you friend, my cousins feel the same way.
None of them had any help with college, and all had student loans (not that there's anything wrong with this), but when it came time for them to have kids, they didn't want this for their kids. They wanted to be able to spend one-on-one time with their kids. Attend their school and outside functions. And they mostly wanted to put their kids through college. But this is just how they felt.
Even if the Duggars only had two kids, I'd still feel the way I do about the situation. The excessively large number of children and their excessively large "daily to-do" list and the fact that they are "buddied" up with babies....these things are bothersome to me. Mom and Dad need to be the parents. It's one thing to have a sibling be a "buddy" for a day (if you're going somewhere), but from what I can tell, the "buddies" are shouldering the responsibilities that should be shouldered by mom and dad.
I raised my kids...my kids didn't have to raise each other. And they didn't have "jurisdictions," they had normal chores that took a bit of their time but helped them learn responsibility.
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