The Eighth Pair of Underwear

[Toltec]

"Skid Marks" were not found on the size 12 panties....there is no way no how JonBenet wore those Wednesday panties to the Whites.

JonBenet did not wash up....and as Patsy put it, "she wasn't good at cleaning herself".

Patsy never claimed washing JonBenet down there....not once.

 

[tumble]

Here is another thought about those oversized underware.

Suppose these where put on her post-mortem.
But why those big ones?
Just think of putting on underware on a limp child. That would be quite hard. The perp might even have tried to put on her a normal size 6 pair but could not do it, this could explain the abrasions on the legs.
Putting on the size 12 might just have worked.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Good thinking, but the size 12 panties were urine-stained. I'm not sure if she wet herself out of something like fear or if the urine got there when she died and her bladder released, but they had to have been on her prior to the moment of death.

 

[tumble]

Thanks for the feedback Nuisanceposter
Limp is not the same as dead.
As has been speculated she could have been unconsious and then killed by strangulation or blow to the head.
Or maybe she survivied the blow for some time and then succumbed to it.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

True...and a good point. She may very well have been unconscious when she was dressed in the size 12s.

I've always thought it so odd that she was wearing the correct day panties, meaning it was a Wednesday, and the panties were the ones with Wednesday printed on them. Like the person who dressed her in them wanted the correct day panties. I would imagine they were in order in the package starting with Sunday or Monday, certainly not Wednesday - so did the person who picked them out intentionally choose the Wednesday pair to correspond with it being a Wednesday? Would JonBenet herself have thought to find the correct day panties?

 

[tumble]

Sound like something PR would do, a pageant of death...

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Exactly. I think Patsy was the one who picked them out, too.

 

[BBB167893]

Well, we know Patsy knew about them. She bought them!

Never even thought about it, tumble. Good thinking.

 

[tumble]

Thanks SD, respect your opinion.

 

[BBB167893]

And I, yours.

 

[UKGuy]

True...and a good point. She may very well have been unconscious when she was dressed in the size 12s.

I've always thought it so odd that she was wearing the correct day panties, meaning it was a Wednesday, and the panties were the ones with Wednesday printed on them. Like the person who dressed her in them wanted the correct day panties. I would imagine they were in order in the package starting with Sunday or Monday, certainly not Wednesday - so did the person who picked them out intentionally choose the Wednesday pair to correspond with it being a Wednesday? Would JonBenet herself have thought to find the correct day panties?

Nuisanceposter,

Like the pineapple her size-12 underwear is an important piece of forensic evidence.

Not least because it has links with one of the parents, you would not expect that from an intruder e.g. any old pair would do!

Its likely that the size-12 underwear are an aspect of the staging within staging idea, imo they were placed on her to normalize or hide something.

Although an intruder come sex-predator may take her size-6 underwear as a trophy of sorts, I doubt he would hang around to redress her in a size-12 pair with the correct day of the week?

The sexual predator knows his crime will be discovered, its pointless trying to hide anything, but not so the stager he/she has something to hide, so much so, getting the Day-Of-The-Week correct matters!

So an interesting question is were there a clean pair of size-6, Wednesday Day-Of-The-Week pants in her bathroom, or were they in the laundry basket, or did they vanish e.g. she was wearing them prior to being killed?

.

 

[Britt]

Its likely that the size-12 underwear are an aspect of the staging within staging idea, imo they were placed on her to normalize or hide something.
***
The sexual predator knows his crime will be discovered, its pointless trying to hide anything, but not so the stager he/she has something to hide, so much so, getting the Day-Of-The-Week correct matters!

Exactly, UKGuy.

so did the person who picked them out intentionally choose the Wednesday pair to correspond with it being a Wednesday?

Not Wednesday, per se, but imo to match the panties JonBenét had been wearing - the regular size Wednesday panties that were discarded(?) because they were soiled/wet, and never found (?)

I think the stager replaced the panties with the only available identical pair, focusing more on the superficial staging than on whether the panties fit correctly.

The Wednesday panties may've been important in case anyone else had seen JB's underwear that night or knew which ones she was wearing. A witness who knew the underwear had been changed would screw up the staged scenario of JB coming home asleep and being snatched from bed by a kidnapper.

 

[UKGuy]

The Wednesday panties may've been important in case anyone else had seen JB's underwear that night or knew which ones she was wearing. A witness who knew the underwear had been changed would screw up the staged scenario of JB coming home asleep and being snatched from bed by a kidnapper.

Britt,

At the risk of sounding salacious, I've often wondered if Fleet White had a look at JonBenet's underwear, maybe he knew she had been wearing size-6 but day of the week Wednesday underwear.

Its obviously the day of the week that matters not the size!

.

 

[tumble]

Why take this staging business to such extremes.
Alright, I agree there was staging. Staging for a purpose.
Thinking a deranged intruder staged this scene for his personal gratification is beyond me in this case so I discount that.

Staging the scene to make it appear to be something it wasn't is an other thing.
In this realm the 12 sized underware simply solved the question that she ought to have some underware on and the 12 sized ones were the only ones which the perp managed to put on her, under the circumstances.
Lets say the perp want to make this scene look something it isn't and he/she does this by putting oversized panties on JBR. What does that tell you, nothing!
And telling you nothing means this was not staged to look like something.

 

[UKGuy]

Why take this staging business to such extremes.
Alright, I agree there was staging. Staging for a purpose.
Thinking a deranged intruder staged this scene for his personal gratification is beyond me in this case so I discount that.

Staging the scene to make it appear to be something it wasn't is an other thing.
In this realm the 12 sized underware simply solved the question that she ought to have some underware on and the 12 sized ones were the only ones which the perp managed to put on her, limp as she was.
Lets say the perp want to make this scene look something it isn't and he/she does this by putting oversized panties on JBR. What does that tell you, nothing!
And telling you nothing means this was not staged to look like something.

tumble,

Why take this staging business to such extremes.

Because whoever placed JonBenet's coprse in the wine-cellar decided extreme measures were required.

Not only that, there is more than one staging episode, probably done by someone who did not kill JonBenet.

And it was the staging that has misled many people for years, to such an extent, many believe an intruder did, although there is zero forensic evidence to back this up!

Lets say the perp want to make this scene look something it isn't and he/she does this by putting oversized panties on JBR. What does that tell you, nothing!

It tells us that Jonbenet was redressed! None of her other clothes suggest this, also it can be forensically determined if she wore those size-12's to the White's party or not.

Those size-12's were taken from her bedroom, her size-6's were located in the bathroom, so a decision was made that they were needed!

Since there are size-6's in the bathroom, then the day of the week must have had some signifigance for the stager, eve if it has none for you!


.

 

[Solace]

If JonBenet had soiled her panties during the day at home she would most likely have left the main skid marks on those panties.

I am not sure if there were any soiled panties found on the bathroom floor, but if there were I don't think we can assume they were left there Christmas Day - they could have been there for any number of days, right up to the last time Linda H-P was there cleaning up.

I think JonBenet dropped the panties she was wearing on Christmas Day on the floor of her bedroom and got the size 12 ones out of her bedroom cupboard herself, and wore them to the Whites. I think she decided to do this because she did not want to go back to the bathroom to get a pair of her regular panties because her mother was in there, "balling" her red sweater and fuming and raging at her, and rather than have yet another confrontation with her mother, JonBenet decided to make do with some size 12 panties from her bedroom cupboard.

Sounds right aussieshiela!

 

[tumble]

It tells us that Jonbenet was redressed

Good point. This is what I meant when I said 'she ought to have underware on'

so a decision was made that they were needed

Yes they were needed, cause the size 6 were to hard to put on.
The abrasions on JBR legs could be caused by an unsuccessful attempt to put on size 6 ones.

the day of the week must have had some signifigance for the stager

Could very well be the case. In that case pointing to PR as I see it. Kind of compulsive behavior to make it look right.

Edit: BTW, wednesday, was that the 25th or 26th

 

[Toltec]

1.JonBenet did not put the "wednesday" panties on...she didn't know how to read!

2. JonBenet soiled her play pants....where are her soiled panties???

3. Who wiped JonBenet's bottom before placing the size 12 "wednesday" panties on her?

JonBenet dressed herself before going to the Whites. She took off her play pants in her bathroom....but did not change her soiled panties.

Patsy was the one who cleaned JonBenets soiled bottom AND placed the "W" panties on her. Patsy was all for appearances. Her little princess was not going to be found dead wearing soiled panties period.

 

[UKGuy]

1.JonBenet did not put the "wednesday" panties on...she didn't know how to read!

2. JonBenet soiled her play pants....where are her soiled panties???

3. Who wiped JonBenet's bottom before placing the size 12 "wednesday" panties on her?

JonBenet dressed herself before going to the Whites. She took off her play pants in her bathroom....but did not change her soiled panties.

Patsy was the one who cleaned JonBenets soiled bottom AND placed the "W" panties on her. Patsy was all for appearances. Her little princess was not going to be found dead wearing soiled panties period.

Toltec,

Her little princess was not going to be found dead wearing soiled panties period.

Just urine and blood stained ones!

imo the cleanup was done to alter a prior staging from that of a sexual assault to that of a bedtime abduction?

It seemed Patsy had little care for the rest of JonBenet's appearance, with her hair askew with asymmetric pigtails, nostrils seeping mucus, barefeet etc.

.
.

 

[tumble]

Just urine and blood stained ones!

Perhaps not on purpose. Urine leakage after death maybe was not ovious to the perp.
Blood? What should the perp do if there was a wound. Couldn't do anything about that.

nostrils seeping mucus

If you have staged a strangling, should you change the appearance of the face that maybe was indicative of a strangling.

Asymmetric pigtails

Yes, this is kind of strange. Can't explain that. Probably didn't sleep with pigtails did she?

barefeet

Does not sound strange to me.

Edit: maybe the pigtails were part of the dressing procedure and they were kind of hard to get right working on a limp body.

imo the cleanup was done to alter a prior staging from that of a sexual assault to that of a bedtime abduction?

This could still be the case. I see these stagings
1. Ligature, strangling, restraiment
2. Duct tape, silencing, restraiment
3. Ransom note, kidnapping
4. Basement window, escape route
Maybe not done by the same individual.
I am not sure about sexual assault staging, imo.