The Incinerator

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Good point. Why seize the phone otherwise. And why move it unless it had been used. Imo

Possible scenario about seizing the phone:

Neighbour to cop: Hey officer, I took pictures of an incinerator.
Cop: Cool, can we borrow your phone and get the pictures off it?

Neighbour to reporter: The cops took my phone

Reporter writes story: "Police have since seized the phone"
 
Maybe they had permission to use the land for ATVing, hiking, hunting etc and that hasn't been reported. There was a deer stand so perhaps they are the ones who used it during hunting season?

I guess we shall see ....eventually... IMO

But if they did use the land for hunting then surely they would have seen said incinerator sometime during hunting season and not be intrigued by it so suddenly in May 2013.... same applies if they were using it regularly for an ATV etc.... did the incinerator suddenly appear out of thin air? Which brings me back to my question ...why were the neighbours there? MOO
 
Possible scenario about seizing the phone:

Neighbour to cop: Hey officer, I took pictures of an incinerator.
Cop: Cool, can we borrow your phone and get the pictures off it?

Neighbour to reporter: The cops took my phone

Reporter writes story: "Police have since seized the phone"

LE could also have actually seized the phone because they didn't want the neighbour sending the photo to others, media etc MOO
 
I guess we shall see ....eventually... IMO

But if they did use the land for hunting then surely they would have seen said incinerator sometime during hunting season and not be intrigued by it so suddenly in May 2013.... same applies if they were using it regularly for an ATV etc.... did the incinerator suddenly appear out of thin air? Which brings me back to my question ...why were the neighbours there? MOO

The way I read the "story" is that the incinerator had been noticed before BUT it had been moved from original location and scorch marks were on the ground..... that's why pics were taken. Same with the pics taken in March of the heavy machinery working in the swampy area. Maybe pics were to show other farming neighbours- "look what the city folk are doing at the farm now" type of thing????
 
LE could also have actually seized the phone because they didn't want the neighbour sending the photo to others, media etc MOO

They cant just randomly seize peoples belongings...that's theft. No more than they can lawfully conduct an unlawful search and seizure. They could have suggested exchanging the phone for not pressing charges of trespassing !!!! That would be more their usual tactic IMO
 
LE could also have actually seized the phone because they didn't want the neighbour sending the photo to others, media etc MOO

I thought the published pic of the incinerator in the wood line was the neighbor's photo.
 
I guess we shall see ....eventually... IMO

But if they did use the land for hunting then surely they would have seen said incinerator sometime during hunting season and not be intrigued by it so suddenly in May 2013.... same applies if they were using it regularly for an ATV etc.... did the incinerator suddenly appear out of thin air? Which brings me back to my question ...why were the neighbours there? MOO

Do we know they were actually on the property? Perhaps they took the pic from a distance. I live in the country and property margins tend to be a bit more blurred than in the city. Now if they were indeed trespassing is evidence they may have obtained admissible?. I apologize if that is a dumb question. My background is medical not legal...
 
Do we know they were actually on the property? Perhaps they took the pic from a distance. I live in the country and property margins tend to be a bit more blurred than in the city. Now if they were indeed trespassing is evidence they may have obtained admissible?. I apologize if that is a dumb question. My background is medical not legal...
I don't believe any evidence that is collected by illegal/unlawful means would be admissable IMO. For instance, if a police officer stops someone for no reason and searches them, thats an unlawful/illegal search and anything they may find is not admissable as far as I can tell.... Thats why they need warrants....to claim they had a right !
 
The way I read the "story" is that the incinerator had been noticed before BUT it had been moved from original location and scorch marks were on the ground..... that's why pics were taken. Same with the pics taken in March of the heavy machinery working in the swampy area. Maybe pics were to show other farming neighbours- "look what the city folk are doing at the farm now" type of thing????

If so, they would not be the type of neighbours I would want....JMO Thats like someone walking into someones back yard and having a nose around and taking a few pics while they are at it. JMO but thats not right.
 
I thought the published pic of the incinerator in the wood line was the neighbor's photo.

This information seems to suggest IMO that there are 2 different people who took photos of the incinerator, the neighbour and 2 men working nearby.

Two men working on a farm near Millard’s property on Roseville Road in North Dumfries said Wednesday afternoon that one of them took a photo of what appears to be an incinerator on Millard’s property. The pair, who did not want to be identified, said police have since seized the phone with the photo on it and told the men not to speak to media about the image.
http://www.therecord.com/sports-sto...lard-to-plead-not-guilty-in-tim-bosma-murder/

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9432188&postcount=62"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada - Timothy Bosma, 32, Hamilton Ontario, 6 May 2013 - #4 **ARREST**[/ame]

It is possible IMO that one of these 2 apparent photos that were taken, could have been sent to someone prior to the phone or phones being seized. JMO
 
Do we know they were actually on the property? Perhaps they took the pic from a distance. I live in the country and property margins tend to be a bit more blurred than in the city. Now if they were indeed trespassing is evidence they may have obtained admissible?. I apologize if that is a dumb question. My background is medical not legal...

I don't believe any evidence that is collected by illegal/unlawful means would be admissable IMO. For instance, if a police officer stops someone for no reason and searches them, thats an unlawful/illegal search and anything they may find is not admissable as far as I can tell.... Thats why they need warrants....to claim they had a right !

LE would not need or use the photo for evidence considering they have the actual incinerator, IMO they just did not want the photos out there floating around
 
LE would not need or use the photo for evidence considering they have the actual incinerator, IMO they just did not want the photos out there floating around

I agreed earlier that they did not NEED the pic.... but what is often forgotten is that LE cannot just take whatever they like. So even if they did not want the pics out there floating around they still cannot just take the photos or the phone without the consent of the owner.

Thats why I suggested that they may have bargained with ' We wont press trespassing charges if you hand over the phone' which would have probably got them the phone. LE cannot just do as they please even though they often think they can...and people so often believe they can that they just go along with it.... which IMO violates all of our rights. An injustice to one by LE is an injustice to all IMO.
 
LE would not need or use the photo for evidence considering they have the actual incinerator, IMO they just did not want the photos out there floating around

Is it possible the photo is necessary to indicate the previous location if the incinerator was moved?
 
I don't believe any evidence that is collected by illegal/unlawful means would be admissable IMO. For instance, if a police officer stops someone for no reason and searches them, thats an unlawful/illegal search and anything they may find is not admissable as far as I can tell.... Thats why they need warrants....to claim they had a right !

What I meant was if the owners of the phone that took the photo were illegally trespassing, are photos they took illegally admissible?
 
I agreed earlier that they did not NEED the pic.... but what is often forgotten is that LE cannot just take whatever they like. So even if they did not want the pics out there floating around they still cannot just take the photos or the phone without the consent of the owner.

Thats why I suggested that they may have bargained with ' We wont press trespassing charges if you hand over the phone' which would have probably got them the phone. LE cannot just do as they please even though they often think they can...and people so often believe they can that they just go along with it.... which IMO violates all of our rights. An injustice to one by LE is an injustice to all IMO.

LE could have asked for the phone, we don't really know what the situation surrounding this event is.

As for the trespassing idea, we don't really know either if anyone was on the property or took photos from a distance, or if they had permission to be on the property.
All that being said, would it not have to be the owner of the property to make a complaint about trespassers for anything to be done by LE in regard to that MOO
 
What I meant was if the owners of the phone that took the photo were illegally trespassing, are photos they took illegally admissible?

In the broadest sense of the law, not admissible.

The judge could rule it admissible if its admission doesn't bring Justice into disrepute. The standard is along the lines of would a reasonable person find this acceptable and not prejudicial nor bring the act of Justice into disrepute.

The defense can petition in order to give reasons why it should be ruled inadmissible.

There is a definite difference in the way the law and courts view a Police action on evidence gained versus a non police civilian.

As I said before, the Police had a warrant to be on the farm and in a described geographic location(per the description on the sworn warrant).
If they could have photoed the incinerator from that said warranted location or see it from that said location, they could simply get on the phone and swear a warrant to physically approach search, photo, test and seize the incinerator were it was located. The law considers that the eye cannot trespass.

Now, when the judge is asked to rule on the neighbor(s) photo, he would likely allow it into evidence because the police would have found it anyway in this case. If the incinerator had been out of view in an enclosed barn, the judge probably wouldn't allow admission as there is a possibility the Police would have missed it except for the trespassing neighbor(s) bringing it to the Police's attention.

Likely the neighbor photo is not a overly significant piece of evidence as the police have testimony where the incinerator was and they HAVE the incinerator and have searched the surrounding area. So likely they have way better evidence than the photo.
JMO
 
LE could have asked for the phone, we don't really know what the situation surrounding this event is.

As for the trespassing idea, we don't really know either if anyone was on the property or took photos from a distance, or if they had permission to be on the property.
All that being said, would it not have to be the owner of the property to make a complaint about trespassers for anything to be done by LE in regard to that MOO
Exactly. It's even possible that the men fibbed when they said the phone was seized to avoid being hounded by the press. What's interesting are these other two photos taken by a neighbor in March. It's unclear whether it was the same man who photographed the incinerator, though it would seem to be.

https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn/status/334421765222715393

https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn/status/334422275145224192
 
Exactly. It's even possible that the men fibbed when they said the phone was seized to avoid being hounded by the press. What's interesting are these other two photos taken by a neighbor in March. It's unclear whether it was the same man who photographed the incinerator, though it would seem to be.

https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn/status/334421765222715393

https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn/status/334422275145224192

I brought up these photos in a much older thread and questioned what was going on at that farm in March. Why would DM feel the need to work on a swamp area during a thaw, with snow still on the ground?? Maybe neighbours heard all the activity and went over to take a look, especially if there wasn't usually someone around. Maybe that's when they saw the incinerator in the original location.

I think many of us would be curious and check it out.
 
Exactly. It's even possible that the men fibbed when they said the phone was seized to avoid being hounded by the press. What's interesting are these other two photos taken by a neighbor in March. It's unclear whether it was the same man who photographed the incinerator, though it would seem to be.

https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn/status/334421765222715393

https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn/status/334422275145224192

And if it were the same neighbour who took these photos in March, and then the photo of the incinerator in May, it stands to reason that he must have had permission to be there JMO

However, IMO this brings up the question as to why is this neighbour so interested in the equipment on the farm to be taking pics of it all?
 
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