The Incinerator

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Wow! Now I wonder how big her incinerator was, and how much fuel it burned?

Wouldn't it be possible to bypass the tank if it were empty and instead hook up barbecue tanks if you ran out of propane and didn't want to haul the trailer anywhere or have a delivery made? And don't some old farms often have on site fuel storage and pumping stations for farm vehicles and machinery?

BBM

I would guess the connection is the same and an alternate tank could have been used, however a barbeque tank is only 20lbs, therefore based on the calculations I provided above, a tank of this size would only last for 1.7 hours if it stayed completely full the whole time it was being used, which it obviously doesn't.
20lb tank BTU capacity-430, 270 divided by BTU of the unit 250,000=1.7 hours
 
I've always been of the opinion that if they used the incinerator (and I lean towards believing they did, since it was seized, even though other large pieces of equipment such as the wood chipper were not), that it was used improperly. Hence the early (non-LE) reports of scorch marks/burn areas on the ground. The incinerator is meant to be operated on a concrete pad. In turn, I wouldn't be surprised it they didn't use it properly in other ways, such as miscalculating fuel or burn times.

SB said she was handed TB's remains in a box. I don't think we know if TB was fully cremated by mortuary personnel after the fact, though.

IMO AE, I assume the two burnt marks on the ground were from the seats. Maybe they tried to put the seats in the incinerator but they were too big to fit. It's also my opinion TB's murder was not intended and this is why there was no preplanning on the perps part. Theft yes, murder no. If they had intended to murder TB, and use the incinerator, they would have made certain they had a full propane tank on the incinerator. Of course there is also the chance the tank was full, but maybe the perps had other problems operating it. From what I have read on the incinerator site under troubleshooting, it seems they can be somewhat finicky.

Another reason why LE took the incinerator could be to do DNA testing to see if there was any trace of LB. :O :moo:
 
Well all I have to say about the whole framing aspect is, the 🤬🤬🤬 who framed DM and MS so far have gotten away with murder, they did a fantastic job of covering their trail and pointing a very straight finger at the two poor souls sitting in jail, accused of TB's murder. Let's hope they don't steal another truck the same way and leave a wife a widow and a little girl without a daddy or any other loved ones left to try and pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward.

<modsnip>

Justice for Tim and his loved ones.
 
1. I AGREE Strongly....I hope " Those ppl who did an excellent Job of framing DM & MS for murder are caught immediately as....the hearts strings here are BROKEN as that was stated and they MUST think LOGICALLY to find them .....agree Swede we cannot have any more husbands and children left without their dads....

2. Just think of all the incinerators that MAY be bought...but than maybe they are being used to get rid of dead animals ...falling from planes in farm fields......

3. I better not say hmmmmmmmmmmmmm as I am thinking either or that may not be understood....

4. I have been on websleuther for years and extremely well known on the tori case....and I type on a desk top computer....and pick my word PRECISELY...as most WELL EDUCATED TEACHERS OFTEN DO.....just to clarify ....robynhood......

5. all of us are usually after the same end result....JUSTICE here for Tim Bosma and his FAMILY....take care fellow websleuthers .....a friend robynhood......tweeter robyn....:)
 
Not ruling anything out with this case, believe me:scared:

Thats good to hear... what do you think about the 'framing ' aspect or the 'mistaken identity' possibility? Or the possibilty that the the truck was intercepted or met by someone else along the route?

It's hard to know where to actually start with so much in the way of possibility IMO...

As for the incinerator...it seems to be unrelated imo..... Almost like a stage prop ! It looks so new and certainly like it had been housed out of the elements during the cold Canadian winter. JMO
 
SWEDE I agree STRONGLY and posted similar on another thread the same time as you!....SHARlene Bosma knew and recognized DM & SM....there is no doubt in my mind!...I can read body lingo too...I am a trained SPecial ed Teacher for over 30 years !I hold a master degree in Special Ed. and a PYSCH degree( honors) <modsnip> JIMO excuses are given which in MY MIND make no sense....like an Incinerator was bought and placed in DM farm cause birds may drop from the sky?"...respectfully written...I am surrounded by 400 acre farms where there is no livestock....neighbor is a farmer...no live stock...NO ONE HAS AN INCINERATOR on there property...if there is no live stock >>>>animals....there is NO LAWs in S ONT. requiring farmers to have incinerators..................NEXT EXCUSE...robynhood

<modsnip>

Please post the link where it is suggested that there are laws requiring farms in southern Ontario to have incinerators. To clarify, my proposition that the incinerator may have been bought to possibly comply with safe disposal of wildlife laws was based not on livestock and birds falling from the sky, as my words have been twisted to, but as the article I posted with it stated, many birds and even wild animals such as deer are in collisions with aircraft worldwide on a consistent basis. Just as there are raccoons and skunks by the roadside that have been hit by cars and trucks moving at great speeds on the roads, there are also animals and especially fowl that get hit by airplanes. I believe the article also stated that when planes hit birds, often the planes are going fast enough for the fowl to penetrate the plane. I believe that wildlife collisions were sited as a common reason for airplane repair (as in the R in MRO), because unlike hitting a skunk where your car wouldn't really sustain any damage, planes hitting anything at these speeds sustain damage, often major and sometimes fatal (think of the plane that landed in the Hudson River recently, and how captain Sully is considered a hero for saving all the people abroad after they hit a some birds). The article states that airports nears fields, marshes, or water (such as the water where a body was found on the weekend) attract more wildlife. My supposition based on that information was to wonder if perhaps in running an MRO, a means of disposing of animal and fowl remains hygienically is a necessary part of maintaining health and safety standards.
 
I apologize that you were greatly offended by my asking if you were typing on a device that did not allow you to complete your sentences or use punctuation, I did say that I meant no offense by it. And in answer to your WT -beep question, I was asking because I have never personally seen an educator who does not insist on themselves (and other people) using sentence structure, correct language or grammar consistently, they always have the most proper use of the language as possible, from what I have seen. Which made me wonder if perhaps you were posting from some mobile site like twitter, where you can only use 140 characters at a time and must therefore conserve on your punctuation, and that perhaps the host was adding the "..." in between your incomplete sentences for continuity. Again, my apologies, I have since tried to concentrate on the content of your ideas while disregarding your unique style.

Please post the link where it is suggested that there are laws requiring farms in southern Ontario to have incinerators. To clarify, my proposition that the incinerator may have been bought to possibly comply with safe disposal of wildlife laws was based not on livestock and birds falling from the sky, as my words have been twisted to, but as the article I posted with it stated, many birds and even wild animals such as deer are in collisions with aircraft worldwide on a consistent basis. Just as there are raccoons and skunks by the roadside that have been hit by cars and trucks moving at great speeds on the roads, there are also animals and especially fowl that get hit by airplanes. I believe the article also stated that when planes hit birds, often the planes are going fast enough for the fowl to penetrate the plane. I believe that wildlife collisions were sited as a common reason for airplane repair (as in the R in MRO), because unlike hitting a skunk where your car wouldn't really sustain any damage, planes hitting anything at these speeds sustain damage, often major and sometimes fatal (think of the plane that landed in the Hudson River recently, and how captain Sully is considered a hero for saving all the people abroad after they hit a some birds). The article states that airports nears fields, marshes, or water (such as the water where a body was found on the weekend) attract more wildlife. My supposition based on that information was to wonder if perhaps in running an MRO, a means of disposing of animal and fowl remains hygienically is a necessary part of maintaining health and safety standards.


BBM

There are definitely regulations in Ontario in regards to livestock incineration:
General location rules for burial, incineration, disposal vessel
9. An operator shall not dispose of a dead farm animal by burying it, incinerating it or depositing it in a disposal vessel unless the disposal takes place,
(a) on land that is owned by the operator, and on which no agricultural operation is carried on other than an agricultural operation operated by the operator, including, without being limited to, the farm where the animal died; or
(b) on the farm where the animal died, if,
(i) the operator does not own the land but carries on a farm operation on the land,
(ii) no other operator carries on a farm operation on the land, and
(iii) the person who owns the land gives his or her prior written consent to the disposal.
Incineration requirements
11. (1) In addition to complying with section 9, every operator who disposes of a dead farm animal by incinerating it shall ensure that the requirements set out in this section are satisfied.
(2) An operator must not use an incinerator to incinerate dead farm animals unless the incinerator is a type that has been issued a Verification Certificate by ETV Canada Incorporated
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/source/regs/english/2009/elaws_src_regs_r09106_e.htm#BK16

MOO, but I have done a Google search, and have been unable to come up with anything in regards to airports having a need for a bird strike disposal service. If you are able to come up with a link, I would love to read it. MOO, but I believe most times because of the airplanes speed, there is not a lot left of the bird to dispose of. In the (IMO rare) case of a deer/coyote or other large animal strike, the airport would probably use a deadstock collector, which have to be licensed in Ontario.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/ahw/deadstockoperators.htm
 
Well we can speculate till the cows come home.... but there obviously is a reason that the incinerator is manufactured for businesses. I myself could find uses for one and I dont have a farm... So IMO the incinerator is unrelated. It was bought a year before the TB case and therefore IMO not related to it. MOO
 
[/b]

BBM

There are definitely regulations in Ontario in regards to livestock incineration:


http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/source/regs/english/2009/elaws_src_regs_r09106_e.htm#BK16

MOO, but I have done a Google search, and have been unable to come up with anything in regards to airports having a need for a bird strike disposal service. If you are able to come up with a link, I would love to read it. MOO, but I believe most times because of the airplanes speed, there is not a lot left of the bird to dispose of. In the (IMO rare) case of a deer/coyote or other large animal strike, the airport would probably use a deadstock collector, which have to be licensed in Ontario.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/ahw/deadstockoperators.htm


I agree that there might not be a lot left after being stuck by an aircraft, but what little is left would need to be disposed of in a manner that would not attract further wildlife, such as scavengers.
 
Well we can speculate till the cows come home.... but there obviously is a reason that the incinerator is manufactured for businesses. I myself could find uses for one and I dont have a farm... So IMO the incinerator is unrelated. It was bought a year before the TB case and therefore IMO not related to it. MOO

Timing of tools purchased are significant to murder only if used to murder or cover the murder.

Many guns/knives, automobiles, explosives, etc. that are used as murder weapons are purchased in advance of murder by definition. Thus significant.

After the murder, purchases to cover a crime are a sure way to be caught.
Thus significant.

DM & Co. have an incinerator, DM last seen with TB, TB murdered and burned.....hmmmmm
 
Timing of tools purchased are significant to murder only if used to murder or cover the murder.

Many guns/knives, automobiles, explosives, etc. that are used as murder weapons are purchased in advance of murder by definition. Thus significant.

After the murder, purchases to cover a crime are a sure way to be caught.
Thus significant.

DM & Co. have an incinerator, DM last seen with TB, TB murdered and burned.....hmmmmm

Burned does not necessarily mean incinerated... and the last seen is not necessarily the murderer as has been proven many times over. I'm sure you must know that though.

So if I buy a new set of steps for my house and my neighbour is found dead at the bottom....does that mean I bought the steps to push her down them and kill her? Or were the steps just there and the mailman killed her?


So many scenarios where this type of situation could be any wealth of reasons.....
 
Burned does not necessarily mean incinerated... and the last seen is not necessarily the murderer as has been proven many times over. I'm sure you must know that though.

So if I buy a new set of steps for my house and my neighbour is found dead at the bottom....does that mean I bought the steps to push her down them and kill her? Or were the steps just there and the mailman killed her?


So many scenarios where this type of situation could be any wealth of reasons.....

1) the "steps" would certainly be looked at by LE especially if they were involved in the death as I previously stated. For example the steps would be considered if, a broken neck, blunt force trauma, etc. was found, but not likely looked at closely if the mail man shot her, detonated her, and or ran her over with his vehicle.

2) On the loss of car keys, most people start looking where they had them last/seen them last. As one looks, evidence is found, ideas are formed, maybe a spouse's testimony helps one remember/leads one to find more evidence or the keys.

The police started looking where TB was seen last and apparently they found more and more evidence, a spouse's testimony, formed ideas based on evidence found, that lead them to the arrest of DM/MS.

Amazing how similar, logical, reasonable, and efficient those two events are.
The end result is highly conducive to finding one's keys, not someone else's keys......the correct keys.
 
1) the "steps" would certainly be looked at by LE especially if they were involved in the death as I previously stated. For example the steps would be considered if, a broken neck, blunt force trauma, etc. was found, but not likely looked at closely if the mail man shot her, detonated her, and or ran her over with his vehicle.

2) On the loss of car keys, most people start looking where they had them last/seen them last. As one looks, evidence is found, ideas are formed, maybe a spouse's testimony helps one remember/leads one to find more evidence or the keys.

The police started looking where TB was seen last and apparently they found more and more evidence, a spouse's testimony, formed ideas based on evidence found, that lead them to the arrest of DM/MS.

Amazing how similar, logical, reasonable, and efficient those two events are.
The end result is highly conducive to finding one's keys, not someone else's keys......the correct keys.

Well, Arch, let me throw a wrench in the mix with a real life experience. Many years ago my acquired an ornate piece of Asian furniture, a wet bar with a heavyily carved folding wooden top. It sits in a corner of the living room near the entry hall and when closed, as it usually is, has become an informal repository for pieces of mail, stray keys, etc. Anyway, it's always been a conversation piece, as it was when a week ago old friends came for dinner and the wet bar was opened and used for its intended purpose. Earlier that same day a neighbor also dropped by collecting for a charity. Both of these happened to be on the same day that two sizable government cheques arrived for my husband. When neither of us could find these cheques two days later, we started through the process you describe. I swore the last time I saw them was on the top of the bar. My husband agreed. But we also realized we would not have left such important items out in plain sight for very long. Then we began to piece together the day. The neighbor. Could she possibly have scooped them? What did we know about her? But then I remembered she was never alone in the room so she couldn't be a suspect. That left our old friends. We discussed this possibility for hours. Could they actually cash these cheques? (In law, "no" but in fact, where well known in the local bank "yes" for an "endorsed" deposit.) Were they in financial difficulty? We went back and forth discussing their lives and our long friendship, worried and increasingly angered. Then my husband said he had some nagging recall of maybe picking up cheques, maybe these cheques, folding them over and stuffing them in his wallet. This made some kind of sense because, with friends coming for dinner, there was the usual last minute dash gathering up clutter etc. But, check the wallet? No cheques. Remember what he was wearing to look in the pockets? Still no cheques. Look in the car where maybe they'd fallen out? No cheques. Then my husband doubted his own recollection, thinking it was some other mail he'd picked up and folded that way. Truly, I believe I can find any needle in any haystack but these cheques were gone, gone, gone and there seemed absolutely no doubt. Our friends had stolen them. We were devastated. First thing the following morning, my husband called the government offices involved and had the cheques cancelled. Thankfully neither had yet been cashed. Flash forward two weeks until today when I'm cleaning up the living room and folding up the heavy ornate wet bar lid which had remained open since the dinner party. Voila! Two cheques! Exactly where they had been placed two weeks earlier and from which spot they had never moved.

Assumptions, even though they may appear to be sensible, can lead to totally inaccurate conclusions. Thank our lucky stars we never accused or confronted our friends with our crazy suspicions. In fact, WE are the bad friends in this scenario. We doubted a relationship of many years standing for absolutely no reason except "gut reaction", incomplete investigation and faulty logic.
 
1) the "steps" would certainly be looked at by LE especially if they were involved in the death as I previously stated. For example the steps would be considered if, a broken neck, blunt force trauma, etc. was found, but not likely looked at closely if the mail man shot her, detonated her, and or ran her over with his vehicle.

2) On the loss of car keys, most people start looking where they had them last/seen them last. As one looks, evidence is found, ideas are formed, maybe a spouse's testimony helps one remember/leads one to find more evidence or the keys.

The police started looking where TB was seen last and apparently they found more and more evidence, a spouse's testimony, formed ideas based on evidence found, that lead them to the arrest of DM/MS.

Amazing how similar, logical, reasonable, and efficient those two events are.
The end result is highly conducive to finding one's keys, not someone else's keys......the correct keys.


I think that if solving crimes were as simple as finding keys, there would be a lot less unsolved crimes. I have been through this same scenario and found other people's keys instead of my own, it can happen just as easily, especially when you use ideas formed by relying on mistaken witnesses. And those are just the issues finding keys that were misplaced, how much harder would it be to find keys that were deliberately hidden?

An other example; my bicycle was stolen, there was eyewitness testimony, the thieves left behind another bike as evidence, there was even clear video of the theft occuring. They were never caught, despite the evidence found, ideas formed and testimony of those who witnessed the crime. I don't think solving crimes is as simple as finding keys, personally, otherwise we really wouldn't need detectives.
 
Well we can speculate till the cows come home.... but there obviously is a reason that the incinerator is manufactured for businesses. I myself could find uses for one and I dont have a farm... So IMO the incinerator is unrelated. It was bought a year before the TB case and therefore IMO not related to it. MOO

Thank you for your opinion. <modsnip> Others believe otherwise HTH. Coincidentally LB is still missing and the incinerator was purchase the same month she went missing. LE hauled the incinerator in for a reason and I believe that reason is because there had obviously been "something" burnt in it. Should LE have found no ashes or possibly TB's remains in it, I highly doubt it would have been carted off for testing. Just a thought I had regarding the first witness BO. LE state he was a big guy and that is probably what saved him. Did DM and MS figure he was too big to take on or did they figure he was too big for the incinerator :scared:? IMHO TB wasn't given a choice or chance to walk away if you kwim. Again common sense tells me, had he been given a chance, I feel certain TB would have walked away.
Snipped from article
It's function is to cremate the remains of cattle, swine and poultry.
It burns hot from 650C to 900C. So what was this piece of equipment doing on Dellen Millard's farm near Kitchener?

Yes, as reported earlier in the Toronto Sun, The Eliminator SN250 model, was discovered on the first-degree murder accused's farm and has become a key component of the investigation into the death of Tim Bosma.
Police will allege one of these Georgia-built animal incinerators was used in an attempt to dispose of the murdered remains of husband and father of two.The allegations show it was a savage murder.

But, said an officer, the portable crematorium for farm animals is a real wild card in this investigation. "Twisted," said the officer.

At 3:00 mins. into video Joe speaks of the incinerator. At 4:15 mins. he says my sources say it was used in the case to help dispose of the body of TB.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/05/20130517-073330.html

This is LE keeping information/evidence close to their chests, protecting it in order for the accused to get a fair trial. LE are seeking justice just like the majority of us. Seems we have not only the neighbours who saw the incinerator on DM's property, but we have two other guys also... ?? :moo:

On Wednesday afternoon, two men working on a nearby farm confirmed that the younger of the two took a photo of what appears to be an incinerator on Millard&#8217;s property. The men, who did not want to be identified, said police have since seized the phone with the photo on it and told them not to speak to media about the image.
 
Thank you for your opinion. <modsnip> Others believe otherwise HTH. Coincidentally LB is still missing and the incinerator was purchase the same month she went missing. LE hauled the incinerator in for a reason and I believe that reason is because there had obviously been "something" burnt in it. Should LE have found no ashes or possibly TB's remains in it, I highly doubt it would have been carted off for testing. Just a thought I had regarding the first witness BO. LE state he was a big guy and that is probably what saved him. Did DM and MS figure he was too big to take on or did they figure he was too big for the incinerator :scared:? IMHO TB wasn't given a choice or chance to walk away if you kwim. Again common sense tells me, had he been given a chance, I feel certain TB would have walked away.
Snipped from article
It's function is to cremate the remains of cattle, swine and poultry.
It burns hot from 650C to 900C. So what was this piece of equipment doing on Dellen Millard's farm near Kitchener?

Yes, as reported earlier in the Toronto Sun, The Eliminator SN250 model, was discovered on the first-degree murder accused's farm and has become a key component of the investigation into the death of Tim Bosma.
Police will allege one of these Georgia-built animal incinerators was used in an attempt to dispose of the murdered remains of husband and father of two.The allegations show it was a savage murder.

But, said an officer, the portable crematorium for farm animals is a real wild card in this investigation. "Twisted," said the officer.

At 3:00 mins. into video Joe speaks of the incinerator. At 4:15 mins. he says my sources say it was used in the case to help dispose of the body of TB.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/05/20130517-073330.html

This is LE keeping information/evidence close to their chests, protecting it in order for the accused to get a fair trial. LE are seeking justice just like the majority of us. Seems we have not only the neighbours who saw the incinerator on DM's property, but we have two other guys also... ?? :moo:

On Wednesday afternoon, two men working on a nearby farm confirmed that the younger of the two took a photo of what appears to be an incinerator on Millard’s property. The men, who did not want to be identified, said police have since seized the phone with the photo on it and told them not to speak to media about the image.


I may be mistaken but I believe the two men working on a nearby farm are the same two neighbours who took the photo seen in the media. Which leads me to ask if either the incinerator was parked so close to the edge of the property that it was able to be clearly photographed by neighbours or if the neighbours were trespassing to get the photo as the reporter who showed the inside of the Maple Gate home clearly was. If they were trespassing, then there is again the issue of evidence being contaminated (or even the possibility of neighbours planting evidence). And if they were not trespassing but were able to take clear photos of the incinerator because of its close proximity to the property line, to me it seems an odd place to leave something so apparently incriminating, almost as if someone wanted the incinerator to be discovered.
 
I may be mistaken but I believe the two men working on a nearby farm are the same two neighbours who took the photo seen in the media. Which leads me to ask if either the incinerator was parked so close to the edge of the property that it was able to be clearly photographed by neighbours or if the neighbours were trespassing to get the photo as the reporter who showed the inside of the Maple Gate home clearly was. If they were trespassing, then there is again the issue of evidence being contaminated (or even the possibility of neighbours planting evidence). And if they were not trespassing but were able to take clear photos of the incinerator because of its close proximity to the property line, to me it seems an odd place to leave something so apparently incriminating, almost as if someone wanted the incinerator to be discovered.

I'm not clear on how/why if the photographer was trespassing enters into this discussion. LE obtained the pic legally from the photographer and it constitutes legally obtained evidence; how the photographer acquired it doesn't factor into the criminal investigation. IF the person was trespassing, that would be a matter between DM and the neighbour in a civil action.

FWIW, DM's property appears approx. 200' wide. Anyone with a telephoto lens, wouldn't even have to set foot on the property to get a shot at that distance.
 
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