The Incinerator

[Juballee]

What strikes me as odd is that both papers spoke to the same two people: Bill Penner and Tim Cook - yet wrote up accounts with different prices (can be explained) different incinerator models (cannot be explained) and different information as to who made the purchase. You can argue it both ways: that Warmington (the Sun) got the jump on everybody and got details before the company put its guard up, or the Globe girls chiseled away until they got the facts. In a video interview the Globe reporters said no one was interested in talking to them and they had to badger the company. The company may have been hesitant to go on record with exact details as to who bought what. I don't think there will be any clarity on this until the trial.

It is important for LE not to lay out their entire case in the press for fear of poisoning the jury pool. There are a lot of things we simply cannot know because of this. I don't think it is a case of things being under-reported (because this case has had a ton of coverage) but that honestly, LE has to save it for the trial. We don't have the RIGHT to know many things, and in the meantime, everyone including the press is doing a lot of guessing and theorizing. DM's lawyer has already complained about the amount of information LE has released to the press, while LE has said they have to do so to counter the position that DM's lawyer has taken in the press. If DM's lawyer had been less chatty we would be waiting to hear of many things for the first time at trial time, rather than hearing LE refute the lawyer's position repeatedly. Remember: the trial has not yet begun. Just because information has not been released does not mean it does not exist, or that it exonerates DM because it has not been released. I think that is the flaw in the thinking of many of DM's supporters. LE is saving details for the trial, as they should, not quashing them because they speak of DM's "innocence". I think that once the trial begins, DM will be nailed to a wall.

Please provide the link for where LE has said that they have to do so (release the information that they have) to counter the position that DM's lawyer has taken in the press.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I think we've gotten off the topic of the incinerator, not that the necessity of time travel to convict someone isn't entertaining.

 

[swedie]

Maybe we should get back on track and take topics to the appropriate thread...just saying.

 

[Juballee]

But he didn't, or it would have been reported.

Why would it have been reported if he had a friend living with him at the time of his arrest? And would that have been reported before or after the publication ban? What if the friend staying with him was one of the people covered in the publication ban?

And to get back to the topic of the incinerator, does anyone feel that LE had their hand forced when it came to making the incinerator pubic by the neighbour posting the photos?

 

[ArianeEmory]

Not really. News crews filmed them taking away the excavator on a tow truck. Same thing would have happened since they did seize the incinerator as evidence. I don't blame the neighbors; they didn't cause any of this. (Odd, in the typical WS case people want more info, not less, and aren't inclined to blame whistle-blowing neighbors.)

 

[Blomquist]

Not really. News crews filmed them taking away the excavator on a tow truck. Same thing would have happened since they did seize the incinerator as evidence. I don't blame the neighbors; they didn't cause any of this. (Odd, in the typical WS case people want more info, not less, and aren't inclined to blame whistle-blowing neighbors.)

Some people want more accurate and factual evidence.

I have always found the neighbour involvement rather interesting. I wouldn't call them whistleblowers so much as people who were trespassing and providing pictures at pertinent times. Does anyone know if the two men in the pic were the actual neighbours from neighbouring property or two people claiming to be neighbours?

 

[robynhood]

...totally confused...AS FAR as hard evidence and witnesses...There is a PB ...none of this or what is on all the video tapes of TB test drive is OBVIOUSLY not going to be released....AS you all know 2 men DM & MS are charged with murder of TB...SO that will never be released UNTIL TRIAL >>AGAIN OBVIOUSLY....IMO the many posters have told the evidence the police have...many many links are posted since this HENIOUS CRIME WAS commited!.

AS swede posted on #852 above on this thread...can all be found thru GOGGLE....You all have read them....

It kind of feels like the details are being torn a part...I understand you want Witnesses...and may be an actual video of TB dealth....like a gun being shot, and seeing TB die...?

It has been reported and said over and over someone burned TB body beyond recoginition....and all that was left was a 'BOX" to give SB....

there are burn marks evidence on DM farm...IMO I feel POlice were ther examining that inciderator for a reason...( PB prevents the detail from being released....)

The police had enough evidence to ID that it was TB...NOw who did this ...to me is very clear...IMO....The puzzle fits together......Swede post is factual ...from what was released from the Poilce...I suggest that posters that QUESTION IT STILL>>>( posting RESPECTFUL as we are allowed OUR IMO...) ...go back and LISTEN to the reports made by the POLICE...there are many as you know....JIMO ...MOO...robynhood.

 

[robynhood]

I must post one more thought...I do not think any agreement will be REACHED until PB is lifted and this appears in court...IMO...it is than I believe ...evidence will be produced ...to convict the murders of TB...I am sure we all want Justice to be done for TIM BOSMA>>!...It was said it will not reach court for quite sometime...I shall be Happy than to TWEET this trial for all to see the HARD EVIDENCE which some seem to be seeking.. Rest In Peace TIM BOSMA...JUSTICE SHALL BE SERVED....

 

[Coldpizza]

I moved wayyyy too many posts over to General Discussion. Lets try to stay on topic in the designated threads.

:tyou:

 

[Archangel7]

It is not LE's job to be countering anything IMO. By doing so they are presenting a public court outside of trial.

DP simply said his client was going to plead not guilty and that he was a humble guy who was shocked. He also said that there was story that will come out at trial.

LE should not be countering the fact that he is pleading not guilty...that is his right. If a lawyer states that there is a story to come out....all that can be said by LE is that they have their case info that will be heard at trial. The fact that DP said his client is humble and shocked cannot really be countered can it? LE has no idea how he is or how he feels..... besides they should not be countering anything.... if they feel they have a good case why the need to counter anything ?????

I guess we shall see who gets nailed to the wall.... and who is involved !! JMO

bbm

If as is said, DM has a "story" it, in and of itself, implies knowledge of the crime. Which segues into either accessory, killer, or accomplice after the fact.
Either three ways he is involved as charged.

Here's the counter you are "looking for".....Where, once again, was this "story" when Canada searched and prayed for TB and family?

I do agree on humble and shocked however..........
I've witnessed it in their eyes when the cuffs click, shocked that they were caught and humbled by the fact they were outsmarted.

 

[Blomquist]

bbm

If as is said, DM has a "story" it, in and of itself, implies knowledge of the crime. Which segues into either accessory, killer, or accomplice after the fact.
Either three ways he is involved as charged.

Here's the counter you are "looking for".....Where, once again, was this "story" when Canada searched and prayed for TB and family?

I do agree on humble and shocked however..........
I've witnessed it in their eyes when the cuffs click, shocked that they were caught and humbled by the fact they were outsmarted.

They didn't say DM had a story. He said 'there is a story here'...... which may in my opinion have been realized after the fact. Also it could mean that DM knew he was being targeted also. To say he was involved without any knowledge of what the 'story' is, seems rather premature IMO

Maybe the story was not known until the trailer showed up at his mothers home and a body at the farm...and then he was able to at least figure some of it out. I really find the 'jumping to conclusions' type of approach as not only premature but seemingly lacking in the 'sleuthing' department JMO

I would think many innocent people would be shocked by the click of handcuffs around their wrists...and no doubt equally shocked that they had been 'caught' instead of the actual perpetrator..... I hardly think 'catching' an innocent and slapping on the cuffs is outsmarting them..... more a case of either mistaken identity or lack of sufficient investigating..... It is easy to mistake a look in someones eyes as being what we want it to mean when in fact it could actually mean the very opposite.... JMO

 

[Carli]

Does anybody know what the exact sequence of events may have been at the farm? Which came first - the discovery of human remains/ashes and then the discovery of the incinerator or the other way around?

Also, does anyone know if or where WM's ashes were interred? Has the possibility of their having been scattered at the farm been considered by the press?

Thanks

 

[dizzy1]

I just wanted to make a quick point in regards to the neighbour whom some are suggesting was being nosy/trespassing. There may be a chance that it was the farmer who leased the land that may have stumbled upon something IMO(incinerator? body?). Most crops in Southern Ontario are planted in Mid April/Early May. This April was unseasonably cold/snowy, so most farmers had to delay planting until early/mid May when soil temperatures were warm enough for germination. IMO it is possible the farmer showed up to till the soil/plant his crop before the culprits were able to complete their dastardly deed. Most farmers plant fields close to home (so they are able to drive their farm equipment to the fields being planted/harvested). If the farmer didn't want to be identified, he may have just told MSM that he was a neighbour, which he most likely was as well. Just something to think about, and MOO.

I also wanted to point out (as I have previously) that just because a farmer rents land from you, doesn't mean he's there every day. A farmer grows hay in our fields, and he is only on our property 2-3 days out of a whole growing season. Corn would be the same (IIRC that is what was grown in DM's field). The farmer may be there 2 or 3 days to till the soil/plant the crops, and then most likely wouldn't need to come back until harvest time.:moo::moo:

 

[robynhood]

I just wanted to make a quick point in regards to the neighbour whom some are suggesting was being nosy/trespassing. There may be a chance that it was the farmer who leased the land that may have stumbled upon something IMO(incinerator? body?). Most crops in Southern Ontario are planted in Mid April/Early May. This April was unseasonably cold/snowy, so most farmers had to delay planting until early/mid May when soil temperatures were warm enough for germination. IMO it is possible the farmer showed up to till the soil/plant his crop before the culprits were able to complete their dastardly deed. Most farmers plant fields close to home (so they are able to drive their farm equipment to the fields being planted/harvested). If the farmer didn't want to be identified, he may have just told MSM that he was a neighbour, which he most likely was as well. Just something to think about, and MOO.

I also wanted to point out (as I have previously) that just because a farmer rents land from you, doesn't mean he's there every day. A farmer grows hay in our fields, and he is only on our property 2-3 days out of a whole growing season. Corn would be the same (IIRC that is what was grown in DM's field). The farmer may be there 2 or 3 days to till the soil/plant the crops, and then most likely wouldn't need to come back until harvest time.:moo::moo:

I agree 100 percent with Dizzy! My house backs on to a farm and that is EXACTLY what happens.. The land is leased and hay was growing there and corn in the next field which is also LEASED!!

I know the farmer too and many in this area.I have been to many of their farms too.. I actually asked a sod farmer about" incinerators" ....being a Law in ONTARIO for farmers...He actually laughed and said a definite NO WAY .I do not need an incinerator on my property....

****1.SO I would link to see a link here for those who think an incinerator is needed on farm property with no livestock ...I doubt you will find one because I also called the Ministry of Agriculture! I received a DEFINITE NO ..definitely "NOT"!

I also did some websleuthing into seeing if small airports need inciderators and the answer is no there too. I have many friends that fly out of Buttonville Airport!

******2.So can you KINDLY place a link where it states that inciderators are required by ONT.LAw to be at ANY airports....thanks that would be greatly appreciated.....robynhood....

 

[dizzy1]

Some people want more accurate and factual evidence.

I have always found the neighbour involvement rather interesting. I wouldn't call them whistleblowers so much as people who were trespassing and providing pictures at pertinent times. Does anyone know if the two men in the pic were the actual neighbours from neighbouring property or two people claiming to be neighbours?

BBM
Due to the PB, I dont believe that information has been released to the public. MOO, but most likely 1 of the 150 police officers working on the investigation at the time would have taken names (of the most likely future witnesses),and other pertinent information, to make sure they were actual neighbors, and not a couple of OC 'claiming to be neighbors'. MOO MOO MOO

 

[Blomquist]

[/b]

BBM
Due to the PB, I dont believe that information has been released to the public. MOO, but most likely 1 of the 150 police officers working on the investigation at the time would have taken names (of the most likely future witnesses),and other pertinent information, to make sure they were actual neighbors, and not a couple of OC 'claiming to be neighbors'. MOO MOO MOO

It is always hopeful that witnesses have their names taken, but even just one of my personal experiences showed me that police often do not take names and will often refuse to take statements from people who saw what happened. This can apply to anything from a potentially fatal car accident to witnessing a fracas in a restaurant and anything in between or either side imo..... they are not always willing to take the necessary information. I have no idea why.... maybe they already have the information they need in their opinion...... who knows...moo

 

[robynhood]

I am posting this with all due RESPECT to Blomquist...where I live is near a huge Mililitary base ...my next store neighbor and my whole street is FULL OF cops and military ppl.....these people work long hard hours..and shift work ...I do understand and repect your post# 636 above me >>>BUT >.we do not live in a PERFECT WORLD,,,IMO there were good and bad teachers were I worked for over 30 years....my point being there will be good and bad in EVERY PROFESSION...from looking closely many times at all videos posted by swede ....and all the different POLICE DEPT involved in this investigation ...I listed them in a pervious post and the detail put forth ...I am sure every supreme effort ( was stated in video from LE even) has been put forth in THIS EXTREMELY HIGH PROFILE CASE...I think we need to WAIT and see as it will be detailed ...when it finally is presented in court......IMO ...there will be TONS OF EYES on the court scene.. including MOI....from rockin robyn ,,,tweet tweet ....again RIP you deserve that Mr. TIM BOSMA ....!

 

[Juballee]

I am posting this with all due RESPECT to Blomquist...where I live is near a huge Mililitary base ...my next store neighbor and my whole street is FULL OF cops and military ppl.....these people work long hard hours..and shift work ...I do understand and repect your post# 636 above me >>>BUT >.we do not live in a PERFECT WORLD,,,IMO there were good and bad teachers were I worked for over 30 years....my point being there will be good and bad in EVERY PROFESSION...from looking closely many times at all videos posted by swede ....and all the different POLICE DEPT involved in this investigation ...I listed them in a pervious post and the detail put forth ...I am sure every supreme effort ( was stated in video from LE even) has been put forth in THIS EXTREMELY HIGH PROFILE CASE...I think we need to WAIT and see as it will be detailed ...when it finally is presented in court......IMO ...there will be TONS OF EYES on the court scene.. including MOI....from rockin robyn ,,,tweet tweet ....again RIP you deserve that Mr. TIM

I am surprised people are allowed to tweet from the courtroom when there is a publication ban in place. Is broadcasting information over the Internet for the world to hear not counter to the point of a media ban? I'm not saying that I disagree with it, but it makes me wonder, why then we still use sketches of defendants in the courtroom instead of photographs if modern technology is allowed to circumvent the letter of the law on a publication ban.

 

[robynhood]

..answer ..I have really ONLY followed the Tori case...and reports often tweet from a special room not the court!.. There is a huge projection screen there of the court room....I have never been in a criminal court room ..JMO from the tori Strafford case....someone else may have way more info here on this than me....Juballee interested in an answer to my question too...posted below yours ...think on other thread...YOU talked about DM being scared of being a RAT in JAIL ....fear of his safety ...remember...?....maybe you answered must check and get on with my day...thanks again Juballee if you answered....robynhood

 

[bessie]

Heads up!

Based on research by the members participating in this sub-forum, there is a consensus:

No law exists in Canada which requires farmers to own an incinerator for the disposal of livestock.

No law exists in Canada which requires airports to own an incinerator for the disposal of bird remains.

End of subject.

:tyou: