The Mindhunter Connection

[UKGuy]

7NEWS has
confirmed it involves a book by a well-known FBI profiler John Douglas.
The book is called Mindhunter. 7NEWS has confirmed that investigators
discovered the book in the Ramsey's bedroom. Sources tell us one of the
parents was reading it, but we don't know which one. The Ramsey's have
been questioned about it. The book describes many of the cases Douglas
worked on while he was at the F.B.I. Investigators are particularly
interested in a chapter that explains how the FBI helped catch Larry
Gene Bell, who was convicted and sentenced to death for kidnapping and
killing two girls in South Carolina in 1985. Experts say there are
several similarities between the case described in that chapter and the
Ramsey case. While the book doesn't mean anything by itself, when you
put it together with all the other details of the murder, it's an
important piece of information. We tried to contact the Ramsey's lawyers
about this, but they did not return our call. John and Patsy Ramsey have
said repeatedly they did not have anything to do with the death of their
daughter.


http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-mindhunter.htm


---------------------------



http://eotd.wordpress.com/2008/10/04...rry-gene-bell/


Larry Gene Bell



Today is given over to one particularly unsavoury character, who was convinced he was Jesus Christ up to the day he died.

His name is Larry Gene Bell and the American was sent to his death for murdering the sister of a former beauty queen hailing from South Carolina, among others.

28 days later

His evil activities spanned a mere 28 days and in that time, he did enough to earn the lurid title of serial killer in many people’s eyes. He would kidnap his intended prey, then rape them and ultimately kill them by suffocating them.

-------------------

1 MIKE KANE: Okay. What about "Mind
2 Hunter", John Douglas's book was there in the
3 house, had you purchased that?4 JOHN RAMSEY: No. It was there in
5 '96? Interesting.
6 MIKE KANE: Was it interesting?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: I never never heard
8 of John Douglas or that book before.
9 MIKE KANE: So you never read that?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: No. I bought one of
11 his books the next summer, his newer book.


1 How about the book Mind?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
3 TOM HANEY: Do you recall that? Do you
4 recall seeing it around the house?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh.
6 TOM HANEY: You were not reading.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: It is a book by John Douglas.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
10 TOM HANEY: Do you know who he is?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: John Douglas I know.

----------------------

PETER BOYLES: "We'll talk about the police interview and we'll talk about the books by the bed. One of the stories we broke was about John Douglas' book Mindhunter being seen in the crime scene photos. You know a little bit about books by the Ramseys beds..."

LINDA WILCOX: "Well, they each had a pile of books in the corner by the bed. Even though they had nightstands. Originally the nightstands weren't there until they redid the upstairs. And even afterwards, they tended to just throw the books there. So, I kind of knew who read what. So, Patsy's side had things like, you know poems for women and not really what I would consider true trash-like Harlequin romances, but more like Mary Higgins Clark, woman novels. Some of them, I had even read.

John's side of the bed was usually some kind of suspense-thriller. He tended to buy books by, what I call, by the numbers, I mean whatever's number 1 on the bestseller lists. Occasionally it would be something like the 7 habits of successful people, or financial things or even a (didn't hear) occasionally. But, generally it was some kind of suspense novel."
__________________


1998-08-04: Enquirer (Week of August 4, 1998):
Police reveal 'murder manual' found in mom & dad's bedroom

In a dramatic development in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case, police found a "hot-to murder manual" in the bedroom of the little beauty queen's parents!

The true-crime book describes a 1985 murder with amazing similarities to the brutal killing of JonBenet, who would have turned 8 on August 6.

And incredibly, it was written by John Douglas, former head of the FBI's behavioral science unit - and one of the first experts hired by JonBenet's father John after he and wife Patsy set up their own investigation team.

"The book was among several found during a search of John and Patsy's bedroom after JohBenet's body was discovered in the basement," said a source close to the case. "One of the investigators recently read through it in detail and was stunned at what he saw in one chapter.

"For someone planning a murder or staging its aftermath, it could amount to a how-to manual."

The book "Mind Hunter," was published in 1995, the year before JonBenet was murdered.

It describes the case of Larry Gene Bell, who abducted and murdered high school senior Shari Faye Smith and a 9-year-old girl near Columbia, S.C.

And Douglas, who helped solve the killings, lists circumstances in the case that were later eerily echoed in the JonBenet murder:

* After snatching Shari, the killer called her mother. His first words to her were, "Listen carefully." In the JonBenet case, the ransom note - which cops believe was written by Patsy Ramsey - starts with the words, "Listen carefully!"

* Shari was suffocated with duct tape, which was later pulled from her mouth and nose. When John Ramsey found his daughter's body he ripped duct tape from her mouth.

* Before she was killed Shari wrote a "last will and testament" to her family on a legal pad. The fake JonBenet ransom note was written on a yellow legal pad.

* Shari's killer collected pornography featuring bondage. JonBenet's hands had been bound with cord before she was murdered.

* Shari's sister Dawn later won the Miss South Carolina beauty title and went on to finish as a runner-up in the Miss America pageant. Patsy Ramsey is a former Miss West Virginia - and she also competed for the Miss America title.

Both John and Patsy were questioned about the book in June, and they dismissed the similarities between the book and JonBenet's murder as sheer coincidence, The Enquirer has learned.

But Gregg McCrary - Douglas' fellow FBI profiler who was also approached to work for the Ramseys and turned them down - declared: "The longer you are in my business, the less you believe in coincidences.

"I believe the JonBenet crime scene was staged. Many times when people stage a crime scene it's based on their perception of what a real criminal would do - and they get that information from books or movies.

"The grand jury will have to weight whether these are a series of coincidences - or something else.

---

A movie about Bell's killings, called "Death of Innocence," was made in 1991 and filmed partly in York.


http://www.heraldonline.com/2007/10/...-murderer.html

-------------------

Chapter 16 tells of the kidnapping and murder of Shari Faye Smith May 31, 1985. Link JonBenet, Shari was a pretty blonde youngster who loved to perform on stage. Her sister was a beauty queen who - like Patsy - appeared in the Miss American contest. When Shari's killer called her family, he twice warned them to "listen carefully." The phony ransom note, which cops believe Patsy Ramsey wrote, began with the words "listen carefully."

Shari had duct tape stuck over her mouth. So did tragic JonBenet.

"The investigators believe that Patsy was deeply moved by the story of Shari's murder because of the similarities to her own family," the insider explains. "She later used it to invent a bogus kidnapping and ransom demand."

* On page 350, Douglas tells how perverts are sometimes first turned on by Barbie Dolls. A pink Barbie nightdress was placed close to JonBenet's body - planted, detectives believe, to reinforce the idea she was the victim of a perverted intruder.

------------------

12 A. No, but Tom Wickman swears up and
13 down it was in the parents' bedroom.
14 Q. Does anyone else, besides Tom
15 Wickman, swear that up and down?
16 A. No, but Tom Wickman has told that
17 to several people.
18 Q. Where in the bedroom?
19 A. I was always under the impression
20 as we recollect it now on one of the two
21 night stands.


8 A. Yeah, Wickman is the source of
9 Mind Hunter by Douglas.
10 Q. Anyone else, besides Wickman, is
11 all I'm trying to find out?
12 A. Not that I'm aware of.

madeleine,

* On page 350, Douglas tells how perverts are sometimes first turned on by Barbie Dolls. A pink Barbie nightdress was placed close to JonBenet's body - planted, detectives believe, to reinforce the idea she was the victim of a perverted intruder.

oops you missed a trick here, but its not a big deal, nearly the whole online community missed out on the Barbie Doll lying next to JonBenet in the wine-cellar, for years.

I have always argued that its significance is that of staging. The Barbie Nightgown is probably included in the wine-cellar not for the purposes of staging but that of removing forensic evidence, it was bloodstained with JonBenet's blood.

So in essence Mindhunter was JR's crime-scene 101 tutorial?



.

 

[madeleine]

I still feel I am missing something here.....(re the staging,the contradictions,etc)

it's like JR was downstairs trying to make it look like a pedo did it and PR was upstairs writing the RN trying to point fingers at some strangers who want money....and it's like they didn't even talk to each other to find out what the other was up to.....very weird.....lack of time?something else?

another thing....the RN tries to explain why the child is missing so IMO the one writing it wanted to get rid of the body.....but the one who staged the scene in the cellar was hoping to trick police when they FIND the body.....

what are these HUGE contradictions about,lack of communication?hard to believe when it's about saving your @ss.....lack of time?

 

[madeleine]

We feel that there are at least two people on the face of this earth that know who did this, and that is the killer and someone that that person may have confided in. -PR

Interesting choice of words.....and IMO she is right...was it perhaps a slip?
Cause this is exactly what probably happened.....JR did it,panicked and told her what happened (probably not the whole truth) asking her for help

 

[midwest mama]

We feel that there are at least two people on the face of this earth that know who did this, and that is the killer and someone that that person may have confided in. -PR

Interesting choice of words.....and IMO she is right...was it perhaps a slip?
Cause this is exactly what probably happened.....JR did it,panicked and told her what happened (probably not the whole truth) asking her for help

If JR told Patsy that JB had been killed to get her help in covering up the crime, I believe he told her that Burke had killed her. She might have believed that, and JR would have made sure that Burke would never have suspected that he had been blamed. Unless Burke was a witness to JB's killing -- then he would have been very carefully instructed and managaged about his future responses.

 

[Chrishope]

I still feel I am missing something here.....(re the staging,the contradictions,etc)

it's like JR was downstairs trying to make it look like a pedo did it and PR was upstairs writing the RN trying to point fingers at some strangers who want money....and it's like they didn't even talk to each other to find out what the other was up to.....very weird.....lack of time?something else?

another thing....the RN tries to explain why the child is missing so IMO the one writing it wanted to get rid of the body.....but the one who staged the scene in the cellar was hoping to trick police when they FIND the body.....

what are these HUGE contradictions about,lack of communication?hard to believe when it's about saving your @ss.....lack of time?

The huge contradictions are the crux of the problem.

Dual staging - a kidnapping and a sex murder at the same time, doesn't make sense. If JR/PR were in on it together then they'd have told one consistent story, not two conflicting stories -a kidnapping and a sex murder. As you point out, it's as if they had not talked to each other. But if they were co-conspirators what's the chance they would not talk to one another and agree on one consistent story?

You're right, they didn't talk to each other, because PR was not involved in the murder or the staging. She did not write the RN.

I agree with you, the one who wrote the RN wanted the body dumped. That's what anyone wanting to fake a kidnapping would want - the body gone from the premises. The kidnapping scenario doesn't fly with the body in the house.

Yet it's PR who calls 911 while the body is still in the basement. This doesn't make sense if she wrote the RN and she's co-conspirator.

The staging ion the basement is not meant to fool the police - they had an obviously fake RN and a body in the basement. It could not be clearer that there was an attempt to fake a kidnapping.

The staging in the basement is not meant to suggest a sex murder. The staging in the basement is merely incomplete. JR meant to dump the body, but he couldn't go out in the middle of the night and dump it - how would he explain if PR woke up to find him gone, and JBR gone? What would he say when he returned and JBR was missing?

If PR was a co-conspirator, what's stopping them from carrying out the plan to dump the body? I don't buy into the idea that PR coldly wrapped a cord around JBR's neck and squeezed the life out of her, yet was squeamish about dumping the body. Even if she's not the killer, if she agreed to participate in the staging she'd have agreed to dumping the body.

(If your husband sexually molested your daughter and killed her would you help stage a fake kidnapping?)

Staging a kidnapping with the body in the basement waiting to be found makes no sense. Calling 911 with the body waiting to be dumped makes no sense. The only way to make sense of the contradiction is to realize PR is not the author, and is not a co-conspirator. There isn't dual staging, there is incomplete staging.

The scene in the WC is not meant to fool the police, or anyone else. It's just a place to hide the body and some other evidence until it can be disposed of. The WC does not suggest anything other than hiding. It's a mistake to think there was any attempt to stage a sex murder. Were that the case the body would not have been redressed, and it would not have been hidden in the WC.

You're right, it's very hard to believe they both staged independently and at cross purposes when their butts were on the line. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true.

 

[midwest mama]

The huge contradictions are the crux of the problem.

Dual staging - a kidnapping and a sex murder at the same time, doesn't make sense. If JR/PR were in on it together then they'd have told one consistent story, not two conflicting stories -a kidnapping and a sex murder. As you point out, it's as if they had not talked to each other. But if they were co-conspirators what's the chance they would not talk to one another and agree on one consistent story?

You're right, they didn't talk to each other, because PR was not involved in the murder or the staging. She did not write the RN.

I agree with you, the one who wrote the RN wanted the body dumped. That's what anyone wanting to fake a kidnapping would want - the body gone from the premises. The kidnapping scenario doesn't fly with the body in the house.

Yet it's PR who calls 911 while the body is still in the basement. This doesn't make sense if she wrote the RN and she's co-conspirator.

The staging ion the basement is not meant to fool the police - they had an obviously fake RN and a body in the basement. It could not be clearer that there was an attempt to fake a kidnapping.

The staging in the basement is not meant to suggest a sex murder. The staging in the basement is merely incomplete. JR meant to dump the body, but he couldn't go out in the middle of the night and dump it - how would he explain if PR woke up to find him gone, and JBR gone? What would he say when he returned and JBR was missing?

If PR was a co-conspirator, what's stopping them from carrying out the plan to dump the body? I don't buy into the idea that PR coldly wrapped a cord around JBR's neck and squeezed the life out of her, yet was squeamish about dumping the body. Even if she's not the killer, if she agreed to participate in the staging she'd have agreed to dumping the body.

(If your husband sexually molested your daughter and killed her would you help stage a fake kidnapping?)

Staging a kidnapping with the body in the basement waiting to be found makes no sense. Calling 911 with the body waiting to be dumped makes no sense. The only way to make sense of the contradiction is to realize PR is not the author, and is not a co-conspirator. There isn't dual staging, there is incomplete staging.

The scene in the WC is not meant to fool the police, or anyone else. It's just a place to hide the body and some other evidence until it can be disposed of. The WC does not suggest anything other than hiding. It's a mistake to think there was any attempt to stage a sex murder. Were that the case the body would not have been redressed, and it would not have been hidden in the WC.

You're right, it's very hard to believe they both staged independently and at cross purposes when their butts were on the line. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true.

BRAVO, Chrishope. :rockon:

 

[Chrishope]

BRAVO, Chrishope. :rockon:

Thank you, but the real Bravo goes to Madeleine. She has recognized that there is no way PR/JR are working independently on two different scenarios to explain the same murder.

She has recognized that it makes no sense to have a body in the basement and a RN upstairs.

She understands that the author of the RN plans to dump the body.

 

[Darlene733510]

If JR is the guilty one, do you think it all happened in the basement, or did it begin in JB's
bedroom. If the size 12's were in the package in the basement, how would JR know where to look for them? The blanket must have been in the dryer. Would he know it was there?
PR's side of the bed looked like it had not been slept in according to ST. I don't disagree with you, but I still have questions.

 

[midwest mama]

If JR is the guilty one, do you think it all happened in the basement, or did it begin in JB's
bedroom. If the size 12's were in the package in the basement, how would JR know where to look for them? The blanket must have been in the dryer. Would he know it was there?
PR's side of the bed looked like it had not been slept in according to ST. I don't disagree with you, but I still have questions.[/QUOTE

Some of us still have LOTS of questions, Darlene.

I think JB was taken, eventually forcefully, from her bedroom. If Burke witnessed her being carried quietly down the stairs, as he stated in an early interview, I believe she was unconscious at that point, but because she had been strangled into unconsciousness with something that left those red marks initially on her lower neck that show up in the autopsy photos. I believe that JB was awakened by "Santa", who had promised to visit her after Christmas, but soon realized that this Santa's gift for her was not going to be something she would like.

The state of her room - tie on the drape loose and dangling around the bedpost, trophies knocked over, carpet sample cut away from near her bed taken into evidence, along with the scrapes on the back of her legs and upper back shoulder, lead me to believe she struggled while someone was applying enough force to her neck to subdue her and silence her - the strangulation. I think she gave it a good fight until she blacked out.

I think the size 12's were in her bedroom drawer, as Patsy said, and as another person also related knowing JB begged Patsy to keep the new Bloomies for "growing into" later, rather than give them to Jenny. But I think JB wanted to have them because they were fresh and not stained, and could be used over a pull-up to camouflage them. I think she might have whined enough to Patsy about having to wear a pull up for going to the White's, and insisted she be allowed to have the new size 12 on over the pull-up, or Patsy suggested they put a pair over it to shut her up, took the fresh package from the drawer, removed a pair and put them on. Then, if there was an accident of some sort, the pull-up could be removed, but there would be Bloomies remaining which would suffice until they got home. Maybe that did happen at the White's, but it's also possible she made it home with the pull-up and size 12's intact. It's possible the opened package was found easily, and taken along with some other items, which were intended for a later redressing. Eventually the opened package made it away from the crime scene somehow.

I believe it's possible JB regained consciousness in the basement, and something then led to causing the scream that was reported. I think JB's perpetrator was startled to realize JB was not dead from the initial strangulation, and used the force of the head blow to quickly squelch her and silence her once and for all. Soon to follow was the vaginal assault, done to mask former molesting. It's possible that at this point the pull-up was removed, but the Bloomies could then be put back on. As the perpetrator cleaned her up after the vaginal assault, he realized she was still breathing, and the ligature, possibly already in place from being slipped on her by Santa during the first attempt at strangulation (I also think there could have been a scarf under the ligature, which was removed at this time before totally tightening it), became the final step taken to end her life.

If Burke did witness any part of all of this, unknown to JB's killer at the time, but discovered later, then Burke has been carefully controlled from the beginning.

The White blanket did not have to be in the dryer up until the time JB was killed. It could have been folded and laid across her bed, or even tossed over her on the bed, without being tucked in.

Patsy could have fallen asleep fully clothed in JAR's room while packing for the Disney trip, so tired out, she slept right through the tussle in JB's room. She did later lament, "why didn't I hear my baby". Maybe she thought she surely would have if being asleep in another room on the same floor. If she awakened early in the morning, she might have gone up to find JR in the shower, freshened her own make-up and hair, then headed down the spiral stairs, as she recounted. Or, ST might not have realized that Patsy did actually lay down in bed, but being in it only a few hours and supposedly a sound sleeper, didn't disturb it too greatly.

Then, Darlene, I go back over what I think might have happened and question myself again as to what might have happened, again and again. And we are not alone - a lot of very professional people have done waayyyy more than we have or could imagine with this case, and still also have questions, or else the case would be solved. I do think JR is JB's killer.

The main thing is, hang in there and keep looking at every possible scenario - hopefully one day, there will be just one little bit of information or idea that comes up that blows this case wide open, and JB will finally have her deserved justice.

 

[questfortrue]

Thank you, but the real Bravo goes to Madeleine. She has recognized that there is no way PR/JR are working independently on two different scenarios to explain the same murder.

She has recognized that it makes no sense to have a body in the basement and a RN upstairs.

She understands that the author of the RN plans to dump the body.

Chrishope,
I think you’re brilliant, but I have to respectfully disagree on the RN, which still strikes me as the “hand”, of PR, though of course IDK. The RN seems to be attempting to build the cause of a child abduction, and handily PR invited not only the police but several friends which the RN directed them not to do. So one could assume a beheading (murder) of JB would take place.
The staging in the WC manifests a little different mindset. Whoever was doing a significant portion of the staging – the paintbrush jab, the cleansing of blood, the change of panties - well in acting classes its taught to try to uncover what the motivation of the actor is. In the case of those staging elements the perpetrator was terrified of someone uncovering that JB had been molested by someone in the family. That was a Big motivating fear factor, consuming that person. It was important that it was supposed to look like the work of a pedophile. JMHO

 

[UKGuy]

Chrishope,
I think you’re brilliant, but I have to respectfully disagree on the RN, which still strikes me as the “hand”, of PR, though of course IDK. The RN seems to be attempting to build the cause of a child abduction, and handily PR invited not only the police but several friends which the RN directed them not to do. So one could assume a beheading (murder) of JB would take place.
The staging in the WC manifests a little different mindset. Whoever was doing a significant portion of the staging – the paintbrush jab, the cleansing of blood, the change of panties - well in acting classes its taught to try to uncover what the motivation of the actor is. In the case of those staging elements the perpetrator was terrified of someone uncovering that JB had been molested by someone in the family. That was a Big motivating fear factor, consuming that person. It was important that it was supposed to look like the work of a pedophile. JMHO

questfortrue,
Bingo! The RN exists so that the R's, all three, can claim to also be victims, ignorant of the prior nights events.

The pedophile theory may or may not flow from Lou Smit's involvement in the case.

I would like to know if JonBenet's internal injuries were inflicted by the paintbrush, or if the missing piece was left inside her? If so, this would then justify Lou Smit's pedophile theory.

Most of the crime-scene and its contents have been staged as was the ransom note, so to generate theories using the staged artifact as genuine forensic evidence is delusional.


.

 

[Chrishope]

If JR is the guilty one, do you think it all happened in the basement, or did it begin in JB's
bedroom. If the size 12's were in the package in the basement, how would JR know where to look for them? The blanket must have been in the dryer. Would he know it was there?
PR's side of the bed looked like it had not been slept in according to ST. I don't disagree with you, but I still have questions.

I don't think it all happened in the basement because of the state of the room, and because it's hard to believe that she went straight to the basement after coming home from the party. Also I tend to believe the adult Rs more more than BR concerning JBR being carried to bed verses going up under her own steam. She was 6. It was Christmas. She'd probably been up since early morning. Could have happened either way, but at 10pm, with a trip planned for the next day, I'm thinking the first order of business was get the kids in bed. So I think it started in t he bedroom and moved down to the basement.

I like your question about the size 12s, I can't really see JR knowing where the panties were. But maybe he's very observant?

As MWM points out, the blanket could have been most anywhere.

I don't see how one side of a bed looks unslept in. Our bed looks like a tornado hit, even if it's just me sleeping in it. But maybe one or both Rs move very little when they sleep?

There will always be questions, and there won't always be completely satisfactory answers.

 

[Chrishope]

If JR is the guilty one, do you think it all happened in the basement, or did it begin in JB's
bedroom. If the size 12's were in the package in the basement, how would JR know where to look for them? The blanket must have been in the dryer. Would he know it was there?
PR's side of the bed looked like it had not been slept in according to ST. I don't disagree with you, but I still have questions.[/QUOTE

Some of us still have LOTS of questions, Darlene.

I think JB was taken, eventually forcefully, from her bedroom. If Burke witnessed her being carried quietly down the stairs, as he stated in an early interview, I believe she was unconscious at that point, but because she had been strangled into unconsciousness with something that left those red marks initially on her lower neck that show up in the autopsy photos. I believe that JB was awakened by "Santa", who had promised to visit her after Christmas, but soon realized that this Santa's gift for her was not going to be something she would like.

The state of her room - tie on the drape loose and dangling around the bedpost, trophies knocked over, carpet sample cut away from near her bed taken into evidence, along with the scrapes on the back of her legs and upper back shoulder, lead me to believe she struggled while someone was applying enough force to her neck to subdue her and silence her - the strangulation. I think she gave it a good fight until she blacked out.

I think the size 12's were in her bedroom drawer, as Patsy said, and as another person also related knowing JB begged Patsy to keep the new Bloomies for "growing into" later, rather than give them to Jenny. But I think JB wanted to have them because they were fresh and not stained, and could be used over a pull-up to camouflage them. I think she might have whined enough to Patsy about having to wear a pull up for going to the White's, and insisted she be allowed to have the new size 12 on over the pull-up, or Patsy suggested they put a pair over it to shut her up, took the fresh package from the drawer, removed a pair and put them on. Then, if there was an accident of some sort, the pull-up could be removed, but there would be Bloomies remaining which would suffice until they got home. Maybe that did happen at the White's, but it's also possible she made it home with the pull-up and size 12's intact. It's possible the opened package was found easily, and taken along with some other items, which were intended for a later redressing. Eventually the opened package made it away from the crime scene somehow.

I believe it's possible JB regained consciousness in the basement, and something then led to causing the scream that was reported. I think JB's perpetrator was startled to realize JB was not dead from the initial strangulation, and used the force of the head blow to quickly squelch her and silence her once and for all. Soon to follow was the vaginal assault, done to mask former molesting. It's possible that at this point the pull-up was removed, but the Bloomies could then be put back on. As the perpetrator cleaned her up after the vaginal assault, he realized she was still breathing, and the ligature, possibly already in place from being slipped on her by Santa during the first attempt at strangulation (I also think there could have been a scarf under the ligature, which was removed at this time before totally tightening it), became the final step taken to end her life.

If Burke did witness any part of all of this, unknown to JB's killer at the time, but discovered later, then Burke has been carefully controlled from the beginning.

The White blanket did not have to be in the dryer up until the time JB was killed. It could have been folded and laid across her bed, or even tossed over her on the bed, without being tucked in.

Patsy could have fallen asleep fully clothed in JAR's room while packing for the Disney trip, so tired out, she slept right through the tussle in JB's room. She did later lament, "why didn't I hear my baby". Maybe she thought she surely would have if being asleep in another room on the same floor. If she awakened early in the morning, she might have gone up to find JR in the shower, freshened her own make-up and hair, then headed down the spiral stairs, as she recounted. Or, ST might not have realized that Patsy did actually lay down in bed, but being in it only a few hours and supposedly a sound sleeper, didn't disturb it too greatly.

Then, Darlene, I go back over what I think might have happened and question myself again as to what might have happened, again and again. And we are not alone - a lot of very professional people have done waayyyy more than we have or could imagine with this case, and still also have questions, or else the case would be solved. I do think JR is JB's killer.

The main thing is, hang in there and keep looking at every possible scenario - hopefully one day, there will be just one little bit of information or idea that comes up that blows this case wide open, and JB will finally have her deserved justice.

I had never considered the size 12s as cover for pull-ups. Interesting.

I do think PR believed they were in the drawer. I don't see why she'd lie knowing the police already searched the drawer.

 

[Chrishope]

Chrishope,
I think you’re brilliant, but I have to respectfully disagree on the RN, which still strikes me as the “hand”, of PR, though of course IDK. The RN seems to be attempting to build the cause of a child abduction, and handily PR invited not only the police but several friends which the RN directed them not to do. So one could assume a beheading (murder) of JB would take place.
The staging in the WC manifests a little different mindset. Whoever was doing a significant portion of the staging – the paintbrush jab, the cleansing of blood, the change of panties - well in acting classes its taught to try to uncover what the motivation of the actor is. In the case of those staging elements the perpetrator was terrified of someone uncovering that JB had been molested by someone in the family. That was a Big motivating fear factor, consuming that person. It was important that it was supposed to look like the work of a pedophile. JMHO

Disagreement is just part of life. IDK either, but I just don't think it makes sense for PR to call 911 with the body in the basement if she's in on the murder and/or cover-up. For some handwriting analysis you might look at - http://solvingjonbenet.blogspot.com/2012/07/ruled-out.html Look also at other handwriting posts on that site.

Your right, the RN is building a child abduction scenario. IMO, getting rid of the body had to be part of such a scenario. With the body in the house, it's too obvious that no abduction happened (duh). Why then call 911 when the body is in the basement? Why iinvite the police over to the house to discover both the body and the RN? Almost everyone would (and did) assume the RN was fake and was an attempt to stage an abduction scenario. If the body were gone, the RN would still be little hard to take seriously -SFF? But with no body, the RN would have to be given some credibility.

If the author of the RN want's to pull off the abduction scenario, why violate the very instructions repeated over and over in the RN? If one want's the cops to believe the RN is real, one must treat it as real - following the instructions. At the very least, PR should have told the police not to send marked cars. That PR didn't take the warnings seriously means either she never expected the cops to believe the RN (so why write it?) or that she didn't write it and didn't read it carefully.

I don't think the RN is meant for the cops. Even BPD would wonder at the validity of that RN. I think it was meant to gain PR's cooperation. Instead, she called 911.

The RN didn't make the Rs look like victims, it made them look guilty as hell.

One could assume the body would eventually be found dead. Whether or not the killer would behead the body is an open question. My feeling is no. IOWs, I don't think beheading is meant to be taken literally, it''s just there for "effect".

I agree that the infliction of vaginal injuries was meant to conceal prior molestation. The molestation would be blamed on the "kidnappers". Were the body found somewhere other than the home, and therefore possibly taken by actual kidnappers, it would have been at least a little bit believable. With the body in the basement it's all too obvious the vaginal injuries, acute and chronic, were inflicted by someone in the home.

 

[Darlene733510]

I still wonder when did JB eat the pineapple, and wouldn't BR have been there with her, when his fingerprint was on the tea glass. His teacher testified at the GJ - why was that, and why did they come to a conclusion soon after he testified? The GJ had access to records that we have never seen, and I think these records had something to do with the decision they made. I don't know if they had access to CPS records, but it seems to me that they did, so what was the big secret they were hiding?
About the Santa suit.........would JR have donned she suit, for the visit from Santa? He didn't and the fibers from his shirt were on her body. We have discussed clothing worn by JR and PR, but never what Burke had on. We have heard about brown fibers. Did those fibers come from Burke's clothing?
We are still trying to find out what caused the headbash, and don't forget what Kolar said about the train track causing the marks on JB. PR was using JAR,s room to get ready for their trip on the Big Red Boat. The suitcases were on the bed, but she may have fell asleep in the den, etc. ST was the one who said her side of the bed looked like it hadn't been slept in.
No size 12's were found in JB's drawer - I believe they were in the basement. PR would know that, and probably hid the rest of the pack, or JR removed them from the house . Too bad BPD didn't search the neighbors trash.
I am still leaning toward two parents protecting a troubled boy, who had previously harmed JB. Even, when on vacation, they kept them separated because of his hatefulness toward her. Even when he was told of her death he showed no reaction, and just went on playing.
I'd did read about when JR and JAR were in Boulder, and a photographer got a tip, and tried to get pictures as they were exiting Pasta Jays. I think the man's name was Coffman. JR was furious and lunged at the man, and called him names, which I won't mention here. Mr.
Coffman said that he had never seen such outrage, so JR was not such a cool mild tempered man, like people say.
The folly here was AH. He did nothing but protect these people, refused testimony by witnesses, and denied testing of numerous items. LS sold AH the intruder theory and he bought it hook line and sinker. Then the [link removed], ML, finished it off with an exoneration of guilt of the death of a 6 year old child. How any of these people could hold their heads up and look people in the eye is way beyond my comprehension. We will never forget JB, and always pray for justice. Right now it looks like that seems about the only thing we can do.

 

[UKGuy]

I still wonder when did JB eat the pineapple, and wouldn't BR have been there with her, when his fingerprint was on the tea glass. His teacher testified at the GJ - why was that, and why did they come to a conclusion soon after he testified? The GJ had access to records that we have never seen, and I think these records had something to do with the decision they made. I don't know if they had access to CPS records, but it seems to me that they did, so what was the big secret they were hiding?
About the Santa suit.........would JR have donned she suit, for the visit from Santa? He didn't and the fibers from his shirt were on her body. We have discussed clothing worn by JR and PR, but never what Burke had on. We have heard about brown fibers. Did those fibers come from Burke's clothing?
We are still trying to find out what caused the headbash, and don't forget what Kolar said about the train track causing the marks on JB. PR was using JAR,s room to get ready for their trip on the Big Red Boat. The suitcases were on the bed, but she may have fell asleep in the den, etc. ST was the one who said her side of the bed looked like it hadn't been slept in.
No size 12's were found in JB's drawer - I believe they were in the basement. PR would know that, and probably hid the rest of the pack, or JR removed them from the house . Too bad BPD didn't search the neighbors trash.
I am still leaning toward two parents protecting a troubled boy, who had previously harmed JB. Even, when on vacation, they kept them separated because of his hatefulness toward her. Even when he was told of her death he showed no reaction, and just went on playing.
I'd did read about when JR and JAR were in Boulder, and a photographer got a tip, and tried to get pictures as they were exiting Pasta Jays. I think the man's name was Coffman. JR was furious and lunged at the man, and called him names, which I won't mention here. Mr.
Coffman said that he had never seen such outrage, so JR was not such a cool mild tempered man, like people say.
The folly here was AH. He did nothing but protect these people, refused testimony by witnesses, and denied testing of numerous items. LS sold AH the intruder theory and he bought it hook line and sinker. Then the [link removed], ML, finished it off with an exoneration of guilt of the death of a 6 year old child. How any of these people could hold their heads up and look people in the eye is way beyond my comprehension. We will never forget JB, and always pray for justice. Right now it looks like that seems about the only thing we can do.

Darlene733510,
You raise many interesting points, just consider is JR corroborating BR's alibi or the reverse?

Would you accept JR relying on BR a nonsense, hence its JR covering up for BR?

I reckon Patsy was willing, due to her cancer, to take a hit on a homicide charge!


.

 

[midwest mama]

Darlene - I think BR and JB had the snack together, with one or both parents aware of it. There was a Santa suit taken into evidence, and it was said to have been JR's, which he had worn to a company Christmas party. Wouldn't it be possible he wore it over his other clothing? Or if his Israeli shirt had been removed, before donning the suit, it was nearby at the crime scene to be grabbed and used for the wipe down?

We do not know what color clothing Burke wore to the White's, but IIRC, Burke changed after afternoon play into a sweater he wore to the White's. The brown fibers were identified as "cotton". Is it possible Burke's sweater for Christmas dinner was brown cotton?

These are the type of questions that have made it so hard to sleuth on this case.

Yes, JR and Pasta Jay had a run in with a photographer - with Elowsky wielding a ball bat as well. A former housekeeper, and an employee of Access also testified that JR had quite a seething temper.

AH was a liver lily. ML was beyond irresponsible. I hope Garnett will pull Colorado up out of it's muck mire and continue to try to get some of the cold cases looked at more closely. I'll be waiting, praying and hoping, too.

 

[Darlene733510]

Even if BR did not wear something with brown fibers to the Whites, there could have been brown fibers on his pajamas.
I think the red fibers were from Patsy's sweater. That Santa suite fibers would have really shown up on JB if it was worn when she was carried to the basement.
The blue bathrobe left on the chair in the den......who had it on, and when did it get there?
Was that robe tested........or did AH decide not to bother?
I think the most ridiculous aspect of this whole thing is the pineapple. A woman who buys it, puts it one of her bowls, her silverware large spoon is in the dish, and she denies it. This woman had a bad case if memory lapse, and at the most convenient time........for her!! Then when asked later about a small dish of it being in the sun room, she said that perhaps one of the people there must have brought it to the house - specifically mentioning PW.

 

[DeeDee249]

We do know when she ate the pineapple. She ate it within 2 hours of her death. This is confirmed by the doctor who performed the autopsy, even though he did not put a time of death on the report. With her being in full rigor at 1 PM on the 26th (when she was brought up) and considering that it takes about 12 hours for a body at room temperature to reach full rigor, we can safely assume that she ate the pineapple at approximately 10 pM, give or take 30 minutes or so, with death occurring between midnight and 1 AM. This fits in perfectly with the timeline of the Rs activities that night- some of which can be confirmed: for instance- it can be reasonably determined what time they left the White's. They also made a few stops along the way. Let's say they arrived home between
9-9:30 PM. JB snacked on pineapple not long after arriving home- that makes sense, too. Whatever horror occurred that night happened between 10PM and midnight.

 

[Mama2JML]

:bump:

Too many Mindhunter connections to be coincidental?...