the question phase continues: Arias on the stand for the 18th day #85

[popsicle]

Here it is:
http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/273021/slide_273021_1985286_free.jpg?1358207900380


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ne-photos_n_2412031.html#slide=1985286:seeya:

edited to add: I didn't notice the socks when I first saw this photo, if that doesn't speak of premeditation -- "oh, your attacking me, I feel in danger of losing my life, oh, wait, let me put these dark socks over my shoes first." wow.

I respect your opinion. I just want to say that it does no good to put socks on over shoes. You will still not be able to walk around in those shoes after taking the socks off because they will be soaked with blood also. imo

 

[leebee52]

"Remember me" will keep you signed in. Just check the little box next to it.

Thank you thank you. Previous answers to this question kept saying to click a button that said "keep me signed in", not "remember me".

 

[josie1986]

It's not murder one if she doesn't use the gun to kill him, per the ME's testimony.

Again respectfully disagree.
Pre med doesn't depend on the weapon used.

Pre med = planned

I could plan to use a massive rock to bash someone's skull to a pulp and carry it out, irrespective of where i got this rock if I brought it with me or planned to say use one from my victims garden it is still pre med.

If you dont think this was a planned attack how do you explain her going through az without being detected? The gas cans that assured this, told no one she was going there?

I have to agree that this is the most pre mediated crime I have seen. To me its blatantly obvious.

Just want to state im not attacking you, I know some people have taken a disagreement of opinion that way. I welcome different opinions and to be challanged

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[camcneishg]

I need help. Cannot for the life of me find any such button at sign in to keep me signed in. All I find is "remember me". Can someone please tell me where it is?

that's it....

 

[popsicle]

What was the felony /burglary?

In AZ if you are a guest in a persons home, once you begin to attack that person you are no longer considered a guest and it is considered a burglary.

 

[leebee52]

Missed the late afternoon coverage of the trial yesterday. What's up for today and the SUPPOSED start time? Thanks again.

 

[BritsKate]

Hugs to you! Can not even imagine. How does someone like that happen? It makes no sense. I wish and pray for wonderful things for you - you are truly a person of strength. I don't know if I could be as strong.

Thank you. I haven't always been so strong. At the very end of my marriage I nearly committed suicide, fully believing I was unlovable, incapable of being happy, and somehow broken beyond repair. A relationships with a psychopath has the propensity to destroy you from the inside out.

But...you'd get through it too...because the only alternative is the psychopath winning. And we are sooooo not having that!

In my ex's case, he was horrendously abused as a child (and I mean Ethan Stacy kind of abused, not Jodi Arias kind) which has left his mother guilt-ridden and prone to his manipulations. So instead of seeing his abuse and calling him on it, she becomes a proxy instead, believing I somehow contributed to his problems. And now I'm the evil witch who took his children away from him - despite her frequent calls to the guardian ad litem and child psychologist - and a court, finally, agreeing he shouldn't have unrestricted access to children even his own.

I kinda know crazy, eh? :giggle:

 

[molly333]

I'm not a particularly super religious person, but I remember when I first saw this on the news, I said, "God took those pictures". I still think that.

Me, too, or at least made sure they were retrieved.

 

[meanddblj]

When I read this I was blown away!
******COPIED from closed thread Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #79 POST 170 by MormonAtty:

MormonAtty states: Honestly, I was amazed at how he knew exactly what to do with this personality. It is something I have learned as a "therapeutic parent" and was literally delighted that he understood how he needed to handle her. Here are some examples:

1. Non-sense lying is for control. JA has no respect for anyone but herself. She is smarter than anyone. To keep control, she lies even when it does not benefit her. Not only that, but it is a "test" to see if those interacting with her are smart enough to catch it. If they don't catch her, she sees them as worthless and stupid. If they do catch her and hold her accountable, they gain her respect (even though she still feels brighter). JM showed her right at the outset that he could catch her on EVERY SINGLE lie and that he could prove it. He gained her respect - that's why she looked like she enjoyed it. She finally met a worthy opponent, not just another person who feel for her stuff. Without talking bad about Nurmi, he has obviously fallen for her stuff and has not taken her to task. She does not respect him. If you notice, she tests him all the time by controlling their direct and he lets her do it. Even when he tries to give her answers, she won't always take them. Control, even when it doesn't help her. Nurmi has failed her test. Honestly, I believe she has felt "safer" with JM because he earned her respect, as opposed to Nurmi who has not earned her respect and does not have leadership with her. It literally must be scary for someone like her to be in Nurmi's hands when he has failed her tests. (And, just to clarify, as her own attorney, he did not catch the gas can stuff, he failed to see the margins of the magazines - she has gotten the best of him many times on things he could have helped her on but she didn't trust him).

2. Authority. Once JM establishes control - which is essential - he must keep it. Notice that he constantly says to her, "Mam, did I ask you if you....." when she adds to questions. He is jerking the choke chain, letting her know he is still in control and she is out of line. She bulks back at him a few times, but eventually she does submit.

3. Follow through. JM also taught her from the outset that he will never bluff. Lots of attorneys bluff or hint at evidence that may or may not come in. But, every single time she has lied and he has caught her, he has followed it through ALL THE WAY until the bitter end. In every case, she has not gotten out of it without having to face that she was caught. While this irritated some people, especially when the point was useless, it was essential with her personality that he prove his worthiness to her. One of the reasons he was able to crack her was that she now is somewhat afraid of playing the same antics (not that she won't) because she knows he will prove whatever he brings up. As a result, she is giving up much sooner than in the beginning. Notice that in the interviews with Detective Flores, even when he had actual pictures, she would say "That looks like me. How can that be?" Even photo proof didn't stop the lies. Now, JM has shown her that he will prove each and every detail and it takes the fun out of trying to lie and control him.

4. He never got flustered. As a parent, this is one thing we learn right away. To have calm control. The moment we get angry or hostile or snooty, the child has "won" in their war of control. If they can control your emotions, often that is what makes them feel powerful - it often has nothing to do with the actual outcome of events. Controlling you and your emotions is sufficient to make them feel safe and in charge (also unteachable). By remaining calm, even though animated and sometimes aggressive, he never gave her the feeling of control. Even when he had to follow endless stupid rabbit trails that outsiders thought made him look like a fool, he maintained composure and saw it to the bitter end. That is critical.

In sum, I have honestly wondered who trained him and how he had the faith to do that right. It is very hard and I am sure he had to feel stupid chasing those leads all the way to the end. But, he taught her to respect him. He taught her that he had control. And, every time she is out of line, he jerks her chain again and she often submits. I think it has been brilliant and I am just glad the jury could see it.

Just want to say - as a therapeutic parent - I often have to handle lying and violence with the same calm and be willing to calmly go through lies until we get to the truth. BUT, as parents, we are also therapeutic and giving love because our goal is to change the outcome. So, I don't want anyone to read this and think that we, as parents, need to "jerk our child's chain" as JM has done with JA. He is obviously not trying to therapeutically parent -grin! He is going for pure control and I am amazed at how well he has done it.
Thanks

 

[Love Never Fails]

I'm not a particularly super religious person, but I remember when I first saw this on the news, I said, "God took those pictures". I still think that.

I sure believed He allowed it.

 

[TartLemon]

What happened to the little 'thanks' button? Is it missing for everyone or just me?

Sometimes that happens to me right after posting. Hit f5 to refresh and it comes back.

FWIW... I just found a nifty trick that's been around for a while. To find stuff on a page, do 'ctrl f'. Type in a buzz word to search on a page.

 

[Nali87]

I am kind of offended by that. If I am being attacked by someone and I reach out and grab a weapon that is there and happen to kill him in the fight, I don't see that as murder one.

If I bring a weapon across state lines and intend to use it to kill someone in cold blood, I do see that as murder one.

But the only way that becomes something less than number 1, is if you actually believe TA attacked Jodi. If he didn't attack her and she just grabs the knife and stabs him, even if the knife was already there, it's number one.

If you believe it was self defense and he attacked her first then that's the only reason I can think of to find her not guilty of murder one. If he didn't attack her and there was a gun or knife there (which wouldn't have had to been brought from across state lines) and she just kills him, that's murder one.

But this whole discussion is not really needed because the way Jodi tells us it happened and based on all the other evidence, there's no way this attack was in self defense. IMO.

 

[Angelina Frost]

I am kind of offended by that. If I am being attacked by someone and I reach out and grab a weapon that is there and happen to kill him in the fight, I don't see that as murder one.

If I bring a weapon across state lines and intend to use it to kill someone in cold blood, I do see that as murder one.

IMO

The first scenario makes sense, but JA wasn't being attacked by TA. And murder 1 isn't contingent upon her bringing the weapon across state lines.

If this were murder 2 or manslaughter- which is ludicrous btw- how do you get around the 29 stab wounds and near decapitation? For a jury to see it that way, they'd have to be smoking some serious crack.

 

[molly333]

Again respectfully disagree.
Pre med doesn't depend on the weapon used.

Pre med = planned

I could plan to use a massive rock to bash someone's skull to a pulp and carry it out, irrespective of where i got this rock if I brought it with me or planned to say use one from my victims garden it is still pre med.

If you dont think this was a planned attack how do you explain her going through az without being detected? The gas cans that assured this, told no one she was going there?

I have to agree that this is the most pre mediated crime I have seen. To me its blatantly obvious.

Just want to state im not attacking you, I know some people have taken a disagreement of opinion that way. I welcome different opinions and to be challanged

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Unless you give me the gun as the murder weapon of choice, I can make excuses for all the strange things concerning her trip, just like she did.

The State refuses to give me the gun as the murder weapon of choice. That is my only problem with this case. I hope they realize this and do something about it.

IMO

 

[rhondavous]

I was reading a romance novel and the hero started making love to the heroine in the morning while she was still asleep. She thought it was romantic, lol.

ROFL - - the first Harlequin (?) book I got ahold of was called "Sweet Savage Love". These storybook characters can't differentiate between consent & rape, so in real life it wouldn't be such a happy ending.

 

[Renee110]

When I read this I was blown away!
******COPIED from closed thread Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #79 POST 170 by MormonAtty:

MormonAtty states: Honestly, I was amazed at how he knew exactly what to do with this personality. It is something I have learned as a "therapeutic parent" and was literally delighted that he understood how he needed to handle her. Here are some examples:

1. Non-sense lying is for control. JA has no respect for anyone but herself. She is smarter than anyone. To keep control, she lies even when it does not benefit her. Not only that, but it is a "test" to see if those interacting with her are smart enough to catch it. If they don't catch her, she sees them as worthless and stupid. If they do catch her and hold her accountable, they gain her respect (even though she still feels brighter). JM showed her right at the outset that he could catch her on EVERY SINGLE lie and that he could prove it. He gained her respect - that's why she looked like she enjoyed it. She finally met a worthy opponent, not just another person who feel for her stuff. Without talking bad about Nurmi, he has obviously fallen for her stuff and has not taken her to task. She does not respect him. If you notice, she tests him all the time by controlling their direct and he lets her do it. Even when he tries to give her answers, she won't always take them. Control, even when it doesn't help her. Nurmi has failed her test. Honestly, I believe she has felt "safer" with JM because he earned her respect, as opposed to Nurmi who has not earned her respect and does not have leadership with her. It literally must be scary for someone like her to be in Nurmi's hands when he has failed her tests. (And, just to clarify, as her own attorney, he did not catch the gas can stuff, he failed to see the margins of the magazines - she has gotten the best of him many times on things he could have helped her on but she didn't trust him).

2. Authority. Once JM establishes control - which is essential - he must keep it. Notice that he constantly says to her, "Mam, did I ask you if you....." when she adds to questions. He is jerking the choke chain, letting her know he is still in control and she is out of line. She bulks back at him a few times, but eventually she does submit.

3. Follow through. JM also taught her from the outset that he will never bluff. Lots of attorneys bluff or hint at evidence that may or may not come in. But, every single time she has lied and he has caught her, he has followed it through ALL THE WAY until the bitter end. In every case, she has not gotten out of it without having to face that she was caught. While this irritated some people, especially when the point was useless, it was essential with her personality that he prove his worthiness to her. One of the reasons he was able to crack her was that she now is somewhat afraid of playing the same antics (not that she won't) because she knows he will prove whatever he brings up. As a result, she is giving up much sooner than in the beginning. Notice that in the interviews with Detective Flores, even when he had actual pictures, she would say "That looks like me. How can that be?" Even photo proof didn't stop the lies. Now, JM has shown her that he will prove each and every detail and it takes the fun out of trying to lie and control him.

4. He never got flustered. As a parent, this is one thing we learn right away. To have calm control. The moment we get angry or hostile or snooty, the child has "won" in their war of control. If they can control your emotions, often that is what makes them feel powerful - it often has nothing to do with the actual outcome of events. Controlling you and your emotions is sufficient to make them feel safe and in charge (also unteachable). By remaining calm, even though animated and sometimes aggressive, he never gave her the feeling of control. Even when he had to follow endless stupid rabbit trails that outsiders thought made him look like a fool, he maintained composure and saw it to the bitter end. That is critical.

In sum, I have honestly wondered who trained him and how he had the faith to do that right. It is very hard and I am sure he had to feel stupid chasing those leads all the way to the end. But, he taught her to respect him. He taught her that he had control. And, every time she is out of line, he jerks her chain again and she often submits. I think it has been brilliant and I am just glad the jury could see it.

Just want to say - as a therapeutic parent - I often have to handle lying and violence with the same calm and be willing to calmly go through lies until we get to the truth. BUT, as parents, we are also therapeutic and giving love because our goal is to change the outcome. So, I don't want anyone to read this and think that we, as parents, need to "jerk our child's chain" as JM has done with JA. He is obviously not trying to therapeutically parent -grin! He is going for pure control and I am amazed at how well he has done it.
Thanks

Very insightful! Thank you.

 

[katiewonders]

Thanks meanddblj and MormonAtty, I missed seeing this insightful observation, and it is fun to see and understand Juan Martinez's strategy, especially since I am convinced I'll be a prosecuting attorney in my next life.

 

[Pink Panther]

I missed most of yesterday and haven't been able to catch up yet...Can someone please tell me if the Walmart and Tesoro information came in at all yesterday?

 

[Nali87]

I want to know what minor4th thinks of the case. I'd love to hear your input on the evidence as a defense attorney. If it's not too much trouble.

ETA: specifically does the state has a strong case? have they proven murder in the first degree in your opinion?

 

[Quester]

Gun Jodi used jammed, forensic expert believes
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/03/...ic-expert-believes?clusterId=1303#videoplayer