the question phase continues: Arias on the stand for the 18th day #85

[Boodles]

Wait, BK just said that one of the defense witnesses is most likely going to claim that JA suffered from PTSD after killing Travis. Well of course she is, but how can that be? I thought the jury asked JA if she had been diagnosed or sought medical treatment for a medical/mental condition. JA answered no. Wouldn't PTSD fall under the mental health category?

During the past 18 days during which she testified about every dirty detail of her life, has she ever mentioned or have we observed any of the following?

- nightmares
- flashbacks
- hyper-vigilance (not "hyper-literalness")
- startle response
- anxiety?

Nope.

 

[BritsKate]

Is it a classic sign of "battered woman syndrome" to fantasize about being ravished by the boyfriend who previously raped her? Is it typical for such women to write in their private journals about enthusiastically acting out their sexual fantasies with the abusers who raped them previously (anally raped on her baptism but later talks about how she and Travis fulfilled each others naughty fantasies together and expresses how much she loves him)?

As much as it pains me to admit it (and really it does ), I believe the 'expert' will simply whitewash a lot of Jodi's actions into something very simple:

A lot of women in abusive relationships do a great many things they may not want to do to keep the abuser amenable, or at least not violent, - including sometimes hurting themselves, taking a preemptive strike. The risk of self-injury, alcoholism, drug-dependency, suicidal thoughts, mental illness, and long-lasting physical illness/disability is staggeringly high in abusive relationships as a direct result of the abuse itself. Even years after leaving the relationship, many still deal with the 'after-effects'.

 

[shiloh42]

Well after the last 6 weeks of hellish testimony from JA, I'm feeling much better about the outcome of this. She sunk herself imho. My only fear now is one holdout juror hanging this jury. But I don't see an acquittal coming. (Then again, didn't see it with CA either).

Hopefully the domestic violence / PSTD "experts" won't muddy the waters too much for the jury, and Martinez can defuse them. Does he have any of his own scheduled for rebuttal? Anyone know?

Remember in January when they said this would go to April? They were right.....

 

[Hatfield]

This trial has been a long one, but I do think we are now on the short side. But the length of it, although I didn't expect it to go this long, has not upset me -- except for the huge inconvenience -- to say the least -- to the jurors and TA's poor family.

But...

I will say this, MHO, to those who may be upset about the length of the trial and the judge being called weak (or worse) and allowing "almost anything" that the attorney or prosecutor wants to do: As others have said, this is a Death Penalty trial. If JA is sentenced to death, there is an automatic appeal (and there will prolly be an appeal if she is sentenced to LWOP).

Since it's a capital case, the judge is giving wide latitude certainly to the defensive side -- her life is literally on the line here. And Her Honor is also, in fairness, IMO, giving some latitude to the State as well.

This is not a case of someone breaking in and stealing a stereo. And one particular verdict and sentence could result in an allowed homicide of the defendant (weird to think about, but when someone is executed due to a death sentence, the Manner of Death on the Death Certificate is listed as "Homicide." Spooky). This trial is a biggie, and to overturn such a verdict would be a very big deal.

Here ends my mini-rant....:rant:

JMHO.

Good points. But do you worry that there are so many interuptions and delays that the defense could appeal the verdict on the basis that the trial was unfair due to the jury not being able to get their information in a somewhat steady fashion.

I am afraid that the defense is puposely stopping with sidebars and stopping the proceedings as often as possible so that they can turn around and appeal the case based on all the interuptions that they themselves are causing.

 

[Gypsy Road]

She made sure to say that she had "no access" to mental health care.

Aw, my ears missed that little tidbit when she was answering jury questions. Thanks. Figures she would l let the jury know that right off.

 

[katiedid2]

I'm a newbie here, so...sorry if I'm out of line, but for those who believe JM did not score some severely major points today, I have to respectfully disagree. First, cross examination is about keeping the witness unstable and off-guard; the whole point is to not let the witness prepare for her answers. So, if you noticed, JM was moving from topic to topic without any transitions...lack of organization is completely by design to keep JA off-guard. Second, cross (or in this case follow-up) is not about landing the ultimate "Perry Mason" moment. Rather, it is about gathering inconsistencies to be argued in closing argument.

So, today we learned:
1. That Jodi said last week that she thought the gun was in a holster, but today....she suddenly can't remember.
2. The 62 second timeline is impossible.
3. No reasonable person could believe that she climbed on the closet shelves without disturbing anything, or flipping one of the shelves.
4. She saw the gun three times: but, none of those times included seeing Travis "load the gun and take it with him." Today was the first time we heard this claim.
5. She remembers, crystal clear, only the events that support her self-defense claims. 6. The height of the closet will not support her version (IMO demonstrated clearly on closing).
7. She only uses Mormon doctrine when it demonstrates that Travis was a heretic.

There are more points that were made, but I thought today was the best day JM had so far. IMHO, at the end of the day, some of the subtle points of today will bite JA in the behind more than any of the obvious inconsistencies.

Please pardon the pretension of my first post, but I am an avid follower of this trial and have been a consistent lurker here!

Welcome
Great post

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I was waiting for that to come up, but I think it's too late now. Although I suppose the DV expert could say she shows "signs" of being molested, or that victims of abuse often block memories of molestation.

That's the problem with these experts. If she bad-mouths Travis or praises him, if remembers or doesn't remember, if she believed she was abused or didn't believe, no matter what she says, the DV expert is going to say it's a classic sign of a battered woman.

Yes it's another one-size-fits-all defense, as provided by the uncredentialled grief (non) expert in the FCA trial - where we were informed that there is no right/wrong/established/predictable way to grieve. Utterly pointless and subjective.

 

[Beaglemania]

I believe that the whole thing took 62 sec. is true because she had the gun and knife with her. She watched him die slowly.

Physically impossible for her latest scenario to be accomplished in 62 seconds period. Travis did not die a slow death...lost consciousness within 10 seconds or less after his throat was slit. Almost immediate death due to exsanguination. Given the arterial blood spray in his sink, he was likely very weak before that point. While at the sink ( I surmise) she came up behind him and continued stabbing/slashing him in the head and back. He made it out to the hallway, probably crawling, when she came up behind him and slashed his throat.

 

[shiloh42]

Good points. But do you worry that there are so many interuptions and delays that the defense could appeal the verdict on the basis that the trial was unfair due to the jury not being able to get their information in a somewhat steady fashion.

I am afraid that the defense is puposely stopping with sidebars and stopping the proceedings as often as possible so that they can turn around and appeal the case based on all the interuptions that they themselves are causing.

I don't think they can 'benefit from their own misdeeds' - they asked for all the sidebars. But that would be a great questions for the ask the lawyers thread.....

 

[tinkabella]

I was waiting for that to come up, but I think it's too late now. Although I suppose the DV expert could say she shows "signs" of being molested, or that victims of abuse often block memories of molestation.

That's the problem with these experts. If she bad-mouths Travis or praises him, if remembers or doesn't remember, if she believed she was abused or didn't believe, no matter what she says, the DV expert is going to say it's a classic sign of a battered woman.

Not to be rude to anyone here thats been molested but i really hate that these "experts" will take any evil deed f a defendant and put it on molestation, abuse etc. its almost like they try to paint everyone with the same brush and give excuses for those who commit heinous crimes. are we to assume that everyone jay walking, loitering, littering, killing, shoplifting, is a victim of molestation and abuse? I feel that attaching monsters like jodi to victims of abuse is like spitting in the face of real victims everywhere.

 

[katiedid2]

JURY QUESTION: If you were so ashamed of the bruises that you didn't photograph them, Ms. Arias, why weren't you too ashamed of the phone sex to record it?

Anagrammy
Was that a juror question? I was in my fog

 

[Schuby]

As much as it pains me to admit it (and really it does ), I believe the 'expert' will simply whitewash a lot of Jodi's actions into something very simple:

A lot of women in abusive relationships do a great many things they may not want to do to keep the abuser amenable, or at least not violent, - including sometimes hurting themselves, taking a preemptive strike. The risk of self-injury, alcoholism, drug-dependency, suicidal thoughts, mental illness, and long-lasting physical illness/disability is staggeringly high in abusive relationships as a direct result of the abuse itself. Even years after leaving the relationship, many still deal with the 'after-effects'.

Frankly, I don't begrudge those witnesses any of that. Their job is to advocate for victims of abuse, not to investigate the veracity of their claims. It is for the jury to determine if thier opinion is credible and that is as it should be.

 

[scorpio24]

During the past 18 days during which she testified about every dirty detail of her life, has she ever mentioned or have we observed any of the following?

- nightmares
- flashbacks
- hyper-vigilance (not "hyper-literalness")
- startle response
- anxiety?

Nope.

Her testimony has given me ALL OF THE ABOVE! Does that count?!? :banghead:

 

[BritsKate]

During the past 18 days during which she testified about every dirty detail of her life, has she ever mentioned or have we observed any of the following?

- nightmares
- flashbacks
- hyper-vigilance (not "hyper-literalness")
- startle response
- anxiety?

Nope.

I'd agree...until she mentioned aphasia...and she's been describing flashbacks nearly every day since.

Give her a chance to get up to speed on the other known symptoms of PTSD, will ya?

 

[Shadowboy]

OK! Here's what happened:

The shelf that I put my foot on was approximately 12 inches from the ground ...
I stepped on the very edge of it while at the same time grabbing the higher shelf with my left as though I was reaching for something higher and to my right.... the back side of it tipped up and then landed back on its pegs only slightly (but definitely) disturbing the shoes on it.

Here's what I was totally NOT expecting to happen (because I suck at physics)... The shelf I grabbed with my hand SLID out towards me really fast and cleared the back peg platforms and fell down between the 4 pegs and the shoes landed on the shelf below it!!!

Kudos for trying this experiment! As to physics: The rotational force/arc (flip) of the shelf is governed by Torque = Force x Distance. So if the supporting pegs are close to shelving edge (meaning there is a small overhanging "lip" of the shelf beyond the pegs), the Distance between the point of rotation (the pegs) to the Force (JA's foot pressing down) would produce minimal Torque ("rotation").

If the shelf had heavier items on it toward the back, this is downward force ... would have "counterweight" to the torque applied at the lip of the shelf.

Depending on the Length of the shelf (Distance to the edges of support) JA did (or did not) step on, I can "buy" her story, to a degree. (No, not really.)

What I LOVE about your experiment is that in reaching across and pulling something off the upper shelf ... it "Discombobulated." No way items on the shelves, whether up or down, were left in one place.

 

[scorpio24]

My Chihuahua, Gracie, waited day after day to witness JA shake like her and make a connection. Alas, it wasn't to be. Maybe during sentencing.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

I've read posts tonight from some that think JM didn't make an impact in the courtroom today. I thought he made a lot of great points, and again chipped away at her lies and inconsistencies. He was restricted to addressing ONLY the juror questions, and I thought he did an amazing job of showing how her story keeps changing, and how SHE can't even remember from minute to minute what she has testified to. I think his rebuttal will be strong, and his closing will put all the pieces together.

Nurmi was shut down a LOT by the judge today, and the majority of his objections were overruled. Her defense is sinking like the Titanic IMO. It seemed like Nurmi was deflated when she made that statement that "sometimes I felt like I may have provoked Travis". I don't think that is what he was looking for in her response. Someone said that this is exactly what a DV victim would say, but when you look at it in the context of what she claims as "abuse" it doesn't wash.

LoL, anybody else think NG's producer (Matt Zarrell sp?) sounds like a chick? His voice is bizarre.

 

[SusieD]

The old definition of chutzpah is killing your parents and then throwing yourself on the mercy of the court because you are an orphan.

The new definition, apparently, is saying you can't remember murdering somebody because you have PTSD from when you murdered them.

A major characteristic of PTSD is the inability to stop reliving the trauma, not amnesia. The inability to rid the mind of griisome images, sounds, smells.

I don't think she has the capacity to even be traumatized by what she actually did, much less what she claimed to do.

Fognesia isn't PTSD.

 

[katiedid2]

JM was grinning a bit when JA said that she was 5'6" (66") and could look at eye level at the photo on the first shelf. He knew she pulled yet another boner.

Eye level is 5" from the top of your (adult) head, so (according to JA) the middle of the photo on the shelf would have to be 61" (5'1") from the floor of the closet, meaning that the shelf is only 56" (4'8") from the floor.

Typical doors are 81" from the floor to the bottom of the door jamb. According to Jodi, that door must be about 6" high!

Typical doorknobs are 36" from the floor. You can easily see in the photo where the doorknob is and where it connects with the door jamb.

I believe the measurements on the floorplan JM used in his OS only include widths and lengths, but not the heights.

If Jodi stepped onto the third shelf from the floor, that would be like stepping up about 30" - 36". Try that at home!

Good post :seeya:
I'm sure he wanted the jury to hear that
So it wasn't lost on them.

 

[panthera]

In response to JA's evasiveness when being questioned by Juan Martinez....

NG: How many possibilities are there in the way Travis Alexander was killed?