the question phase continues: Arias on the stand for the 18th day #85

[carnnell]

OMG!!! This morning EDT at 7:00 ID Channel had the Aileen Wuronos Case. They showed her testifying in her trial (John Mallory). As most know, she used self-defense for a defense. Other than geographical difference (woods, cars vs house and bathroom) Jodi used her self defense including when John said to Aileen "I'll kill you *****!!" My mouth dropped the floor.

Aileen claims she went there "lady like" to perform her duties. John attacked her having her down chocking her (sound familiar) saying "I'll kill you *****". She got the gun in his car or saw his gun in his car, turn and shot him in self-defense.

I about fell over hearing this!!! Jodi seems to have taken Wuronos' script. Sheeesh

I wish I heard the first part better (til I heard I'll kill you *****). I can't find the video of her trial testimony. Darn it.

I wonder if this psychopathology handing the script from one to another OR Arias watched the documentary at some point to use Wuronos' self defense BS in her trial?

Very very scarey!!!

 

[Hopeful One]

well I tend to agree with you but...let's say it cannot be proven she brought the murder weapon with her, which it cannot be if it's the knife. Then we have a garden variety knife fight. The gun did not kill him and was used last, after he was dead, or maybe as a way to put him out of his suffering when he was near death.

So far, this is the State's case, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why because that is not murder one.

Are we watching the same trial?

 

[Angelina Frost]

For someone who a lot of people claim is very bright, Arias isn't a very intelligent criminal ... here's the start of a laundry list of her "mistakes" ,,,,

1) Keeping gas receipts indicating a 3rd gas can and charging some gas on a credit card and paying cash for the rest
2) Stealing a family gun to kill Travis
3) Dyeing her hair on the way to Mesa
4) Throwing the camera in the wash with the SD card inside
5) Leaving bloody palm and fingerprints at the scene
6) Turning down a white car in favor of a red one
7) Getting MM to forge letters indicating pedophilia
8) Telling LaViolette that Travis was looking at child on the computer
9) Recording Travis on a sex tape
10) Taking pictures of a bloody finger injured at work, but none of the "injuries" supposedly inflicted by Travis

Please add to the list ...

11) using the word "obsessed" in her testibaloney
12) sending irises to TA's grandmother
13) leaving voicemails, texts and emails after the murder
14) uttering the "No jury will convict me" line
15) telling Detective Flores TA never had a gun

Good post. Still thinking....

 

[Harmony 2]

 

[moonbird]

I have a free standing shelving unit from Ikea that has these resting shelves. Not only would there be no possible way they could have held her weight, but she insists she only put her one foot on the shelf at the very edge. With resting shelves, you can't even put the slightest weight on the edge or the back end of the shelf flips up... made that mistake myself with some cd's I put too close to the front edge without having something heavy closer to the back edge as a counterweight.

As for her being in her socks, I attribute that to her not wanting to leave bloody shoe prints knowing from other crime stories that people can be tracked and identified through the print of their shoes. As I recall, there WAS a bloody shoe print in the hall from her, and I think she took off her shoes when she realized she was stomping through all that blood. I'm sure her shoes got "lost" along with the gun and other things she needed to get rid of.

<respectfully snipped>

bbm - imo: makes her story about stepping onto that shelf even more unbelievable... wearing socks (which we know she did) would reduce her traction on that particular surface (the shelf) as it appears to be very smooth, possibly a gloss finish.

ime, that's a super slippery situation..

 

[KMouse]

I respect your opinion. I just want to say that it does no good to put socks on over shoes. You will still not be able to walk around in those shoes after taking the socks off because they will be soaked with blood also. imo

They may have blood on them but the shoe prints would be all messed up if that makes sense. There would never be a shoe print that could be lifted and matched with a suspect's shoes. There would still be blood on the shoes but depending on the type of shoe you would wipe off the blood easily to avoid immediate detection and then just toss the shoes.

 

[rhondavous]

Law of Attraction. Peterson killed his wife so he could be with another woman who already had a child and that woman testified against him and made their case.

Law of Attraction. Jodi wanted to be a professional photograph and take award winning pictures. It was pictures from a camera she was using that has made the case for the State.

If you put out a strong negative (such as killing someone) you get it back 10 fold. jmo

Jodi conveniently forgot to leave out one word in her philosohy of life, "The Law of Fatal Attraction".

 

[Hopeful One]

What makes you think that? The jury members are banned from any media viewing or discussing the case with anyone. To go in their closet and experiment with shelving is none of the above, IMO.

They aren't supposed to experiment on their own in regards to the case. Happened in the Scott Peterson case.

 

[lmkag96]

They are not allowed to do any "investigating" on their own; they are to rely solely on the evidence in the case: testimony, exhibits, any "field trips" allowed by a judge.

edited to apologize, you asked Hopeful One and I answered - I didn't realize, sorry.

I saw a case on tv just that past weekend where a man murdered his wife by strangling her on a workout bench using the weight bar. Of course the defense said she was on medication and it was an unfortunate accident. When the jury went into deliberation, they were 7 to 5 in favor of aquittal. After doing an experiment using a workout bench and bar to recreate what happened, they convicted the man of first degree murder. Can't this jury do the same type of experiment or even go to the house and do the experiment? That would be the best way to disprove what she is saying!!!

 

[katiewonders]

You put together a much better list than I did to show the manipulative, dirt-dredging wherewithall of a psychopath! :floorlaugh:

She is just so damned calculating.

People will say that so many (psychopathic) murderers are so intelligent, but really all of them might think they are smarter than anyone else (S. Peterson, T. Bundy, J. Arias) but they all have made critical mistakes.

I heard many THs say there is no such thing as a perfect crime but I don't believe that anymore when I think of Jacob Wetterling, Brittanee Drexel, Kyron Horman Haleigh Cummings, Ayla Reynolds, Jennifer Kesse, and Tara Grinstead, to name a few. It blows my mind to think these cases haven't been solved.

 

[molly333]

What makes you think that? The jury members are banned from any media viewing or discussing the case with anyone. To go in their closet and experiment with shelving is none of the above, IMO.

They aren't allowed to experiment, search the internet, search the libraries, or search out any information related to this case that is not presented to them in the trial court. That's cause for a mistrial. I've seen it happen.

IMO

 

[popsicle]

Hey popsicle, Good Morning does the burglary apply in this case or is it just the premed? Thanks

It is the second 1st degree murder charge against JA. The premise being that okay, if they don't think she premeditated the murder then when she began to attack Travis she was no longer welcome in his home and therefor is consided a burglar and in the commission of that burglary she murdered Travis. That is a 1st degree felony.

 

[RadarLuv]

Any Washingtonians in the house? I am at a hotel in Spokane, and I'll be damned if they don't have HLN. I am watching CNN right now and thinking, surely this can't be right. Anyone know what channel HLN usually airs on in or around the Spokane, WA area?

 

[lmkag96]

I think the sex tape was a setup/ blackmail to use against Travis. You hear in the tape Jodi asking very leading questions about different sex acts and baits him to talk about them. The sex talk doesn't happen until much later in the tape. The first part of the convo is chitter chatter, which leads me to believe he had no idea this was being taped or was supposed to be a taped convo of sex talk.

I think by time she planned the staged burglary of her grandparents home in order for her to steal the gun she was in the planning stage of killing Travis. That was her method of choice.

I think she chose the shower because she would have an advantage over Travis. Having him sit, then shoot him. The mess contained in that one area then leave.

I think she waited outside Travis' house until the roommate left so that no one would know she was there.

Her plan was to kill him in the shower so she figured the best way to accomplish this was to have sex with him and pretend she wanted to take pics. Being she knew he would always take a shower after sex. She then baited him to get into the shower telling him those would be great pics. I think at the end she asked him to sit, at that point she only had a split second to shoot him because she knew once he saw the gun he would bolt. So immediately after sitting she pulls the gun from her pocket and hastily shoots him but the bullet enters his head in a way that isn't immediately fatal. As she panics to shoot him again he gets up stunned and staggering to the sink, she tries to fire again. But the gun jams. She runs to the kitchen for a knife knowing she cannot leave him alive. In the meantime Travis is over the sink spitting blood, she is now behind him stabbing him in the back and head. He turns to grab the knife and that is when his hand is cut. I think this is where he gets some of the frontal stabs. He tries to get away from her by going down the hall, stumbles and falls and it is then she goes crazy with her knife and also slashes his throat. She cuts her left hand at some point and is bleeding. Evidence of her blood and his mixed on the wall in the form of her left hand print on the wall. She drags him to the shower because he has her DNA on him.

After he is washed off in the shower she attempts a clean up... Takes his journal and what ever else and leaves.

This is my theory because she went thru the trouble of getting her grandfathers gun. So to me it feels as though that was her method of choice. She didnt anticipate that the first shot would not immediately kill him. I think her intention was a quick clean shot and then get out of there. I don't think she would get there and then choose a knife. And didnt know the gun would jam. At that point she had to get the knife to insure he would die.

I totally agree with you except for one thing...I don't think she ran to the kitchen for a knife. I believe she had it with her....the one she used to slash his tires. It was either in the closet or the bedroom along with the gun.

 

[Sustained]

For someone who a lot of people claim is very bright, Arias isn't a very intelligent criminal ... here's the start of a laundry list of her "mistakes" ,,,,

1) Keeping gas receipts indicating a 3rd gas can and charging some gas on a credit card and paying cash for the rest
2) Stealing a family gun to kill Travis
3) Dyeing her hair on the way to Mesa
4) Throwing the camera in the wash with the SD card inside
5) Leaving bloody palm and fingerprints at the scene
6) Turning down a white car in favor of a red one
7) Getting MM to forge letters indicating pedophilia
8) Telling LaViolette that Travis was looking at child on the computer
9) Recording Travis on a sex tape
10) Taking pictures of a bloody finger injured at work, but none of the "injuries" supposedly inflicted by Travis

Please add to the list ...

Adding some more ...

11) Claiming Travis had a gun, but no box of ammunition
12) Claiming she did not know about the Hoover Dam checkpoint, but had driven that way before
13) Conveniently losing the Helio phone with the recorded sex tape and finding it two years later after the self-defense claim was establsihed as the defense
14) Stating that Travis was calm during the trashing of the BMW, but furious with the dropping of the camera from 2 feet off the ground
15) Putting the dog gate up that was never up before to keep Napoleon away from Travis' body
16) Relating (2) different false stories about the killing to Detective Flores
17) Hacking Travis' voicemail late on 6/4 and leaving him a voicemail after supposedly finding her "lost" phone charger
18) Making out with Ryan Burns less than 24 hours after butchering Travis
19) Removing the car mats from the rental car
20) Saying the 3rd gas can was returned to Walmart when it really wasn't

On and on ...

 

[molly333]

I saw a case on tv just that past weekend where a man murdered his wife by strangling her on a workout bench using the weight bar. Of course the defense said she was on medication and it was an unfortunate accident. When the jury went into deliberation, they were 7 to 5 in favor of aquittal. After doing an experiment using a workout bench and bar to recreate what happened, they convicted the man of first degree murder. Can't this jury do the same type of experiment or even go to the house and do the experiment? That would be the best way to disprove what she is saying!!!

What they do in a jury room with the props of the case might be a different thing, but doing it at home is a definite no no. I seem to recall a jury getting in trouble for experimenting in a jury room, too, but I can't remember the details of that case. I would ask the Judge before you do anything like that even in a jury room.

IMO

 

[rhondavous]

I think the sex tape was a setup/ blackmail to use against Travis. You hear in the tape Jodi asking very leading questions about different sex acts and baits him to talk about them. The sex talk doesn't happen until much later in the tape. The first part of the convo is chitter chatter, which leads me to believe he had no idea this was being taped or was supposed to be a taped convo of sex talk.

I think by time she planned the staged burglary of her grandparents home in order for her to steal the gun she was in the planning stage of killing Travis. That was her method of choice.

I think she chose the shower because she would have an advantage over Travis. Having him sit, then shoot him. The mess contained in that one area then leave.

I think she waited outside Travis' house until the roommate left so that no one would know she was there.

Her plan was to kill him in the shower so she figured the best way to accomplish this was to have sex with him and pretend she wanted to take pics. Being she knew he would always take a shower after sex. She then baited him to get into the shower telling him those would be great pics. I think at the end she asked him to sit, at that point she only had a split second to shoot him because she knew once he saw the gun he would bolt. So immediately after sitting she pulls the gun from her pocket and hastily shoots him but the bullet enters his head in a way that isn't immediately fatal. As she panics to shoot him again he gets up stunned and staggering to the sink, she tries to fire again. But the gun jams. She runs to the kitchen for a knife knowing she cannot leave him alive. In the meantime Travis is over the sink spitting blood, she is now behind him stabbing him in the back and head. He turns to grab the knife and that is when his hand is cut. I think this is where he gets some of the frontal stabs. He tries to get away from her by going down the hall, stumbles and falls and it is then she goes crazy with her knife and also slashes his throat. She cuts her left hand at some point and is bleeding. Evidence of her blood and his mixed on the wall in the form of her left hand print on the wall. She drags him to the shower because he has her DNA on him.

After he is washed off in the shower she attempts a clean up... Takes his journal and what ever else and leaves.

This is my theory because she went thru the trouble of getting her grandfathers gun. So to me it feels as though that was her method of choice. She didnt anticipate that the first shot would not immediately kill him. I think her intention was a quick clean shot and then get out of there. I don't think she would get there and then choose a knife. And didnt know the gun would jam. At that point she had to get the knife to insure he would die.

Did State mention that Travis's journal end up in the gasoline fueled bonfire?

 

[popsicle]

They may have blood on them but the shoe prints would be all messed up if that makes sense. There would never be a shoe print that could be lifted and matched with a suspect's shoes. There would still be blood on the shoes but depending on the type of shoe you would wipe off the blood easily to avoid immediate detection and then just toss the shoes.

I agree. I was making the point that no blood was found outside that bathroom and the carpet right at the entrance to the bedroom.

 

[ToothPickle Sticks]

bbm - imo: makes her story about stepping onto that shelf even more unbelievable... wearing socks (which we know she did) would reduce her traction on that particular surface (the shelf) as it appears to be very smooth, possibly a gloss finish.

ime, that's a super slippery situation..

I have this same shelf system in my kitchen cabinets. I have put my hand on the corner of an upper shelf to attempt to reach an even higher shelf and my hand has literally bent the pegs and brought the shelf down on the side my hand was on. And that's just from my hand!

 

[Arishia]

well, that's why her own testimony is so damaging to her because she had disabled him and then went and got a knife to finish him off. That by itself could be premeditation. Except for two flies in the ointment:

The State disagrees.

The expert witnesses will probably say she was in a fugue state at that point and had no idea what she was doing.

IMO

Something I don't understand is how she can claim a fugue state. She has given testimony, and there is evidence, that she never dissociated from her identity, and she didn't dissociate from her knowledge of 'guilt', that she 'did something bad', that she had 'killed Travis'. Her actions prove otherwise. The evidence proves otherwise. Maybe I don't understand all the elements of a fugue state. With the fog rolled in, she still got rid of incriminating evidence and actively covered up. She knew who she was in this fog, at least enough to remove 'her' things from the scene, and also when she made phone calls. She remembered which car was hers. She traveled a route that lead her exactly where she was had planned to go before the killing, toward Utah. She remembered it was her that had done something to Travis. She remembered enough to try to cover that up shortly after. At no point did she not know it was her that did it, or at least, she hasn't shown us any of that. So where is this dissociation from identity? Where is the absence of memory that it was her that had done something 'bad' to Travis?