the question phase continues: Arias on the stand for the 18th day #85

[katiewonders]

Agreed. I've followed the Jennifer Kesse and Tara Grinstead cases since the beginning. I wonder if we will ever find out what happened to them.

Sad, isn't it? It breaks my heart.

Not being particularly religious, I wondered why God wouldn't allow these cases to be solved? I'm not disrespecting anyone who said they thought God's hand was in the recovered pictures, or in Laci & Connor's bodies having washed ashore, everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I think some cases are lucky and some are not. It's just like with the psychics who talk to the dead, people remember the cases to support their belief and forget those that do not.

 

[DebinGA]

No, the jury can not do any investigating or "experimenting" of the case on their own. Think about it, that would bring evidence, into their deliberations/thought process that has not come in through the court case. That's why there are so many court hearings, proffers, objections, etc., so that the evidence admitted in the court is allowed. Probative and not prejudicial to the defendant.

Also, can you imagine during deliberations there would be 12 different experiments on 12 different days in 12 different closets in 12 different houses by 12 different people at 12 different times. All experiments would not have matched JA's action.

Would you like your fate decided by someone who deliberated on evidence not presented in the courtroom where your attorney had your defense in mind with every question of testimony and each and every exhibit? :twocents:

Well, so much for my vision of the jurors doing a 12 Angry Men reprise of the 62 sec. melee with CEO watching the time as Wrestler Guy jumps out and picks up/body slams Ponytail Girl, who hightails it around the jury room twice with Wrestler guy in hot pursuit, jumps on a chair and reaches high, jumps down, runs across the room, and pivots in "Stop or I'll shoot!" mode.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think the defendant contradicted herself on purpose many times. And she said that she said things before (like today when she said TA said the gun was loaded) when she really hadn't.

I think she has purposely stated contradictory things because she wants to wreak chaos in the jury room. She wants them to argue with each other and cause an overall state of confusion about the evidence/testimony, such as "she said x"...."no, she said y"...."

...kind of like what happens here with us on WS.

Maybe her strategy is "baffle them with BS."

Imo, what is going to happen is they are all going to disregard her entire testimony because it is not credible nor trustworthy.

IMO

 

[carnnell]

People will say that so many (psychopathic) murderers are so intelligent, but really all of them might think they are smarter than anyone else (S. Peterson, T. Bundy, J. Arias) but they all have made critical mistakes.

I heard many THs say there is no such thing as a perfect crime but I don't believe that anymore when I think of Jacob Wetterling, Brittanee Drexel, Kyron Horman Haleigh Cummings, Ayla Reynolds, Jennifer Kesse, and Tara Grinstead, to name a few. It blows my mind to think these cases haven't been solved.

They are psychological intelligent. Their I.Q. are not any different than the general population - some are high, ave and low.

 

[thefragile7393]

One of our verified attorneys can clarify but premeditation does not lie on what type of weapon is used when. It is the mindset of the attacker and evidence that shows the mindset.

Travis ended up dead after a 1000 mile road trip. Not just dead but OVERKILLED. Now you can discount the hair dye, rental car, gas cans, theft of a gun that conveniently was the same caliber as the one used in his death and the long trip itself if you want. You still have pre meditated murder.

She didn't stab him just once or twice to stop him. Or shoot him once to stop him. She kept going. Over and over and over. That alone shows she wanted him dead. At some point she sliced his throat, nearly decapitating him. Again, it shows she wanted him dead. She inflicted injuries deliberately that she knew would kill him. That is was premeditated murder is- you want someone dead and you are going to do whatever it takes to get them there. It does not matter what order it all happened in or what weapon was used. Her intent was clear. That's why its murder one.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[katiewonders]

I did not mean that they should do the experiment on their own. To clarify, I meant that the jury should do the experiment in the courtroom or where ever they deliberate together (like on the show I referenced...that jury did the experiment legally in that case). That or, they should take the jury to the house to do the experiment using a girl that is jodi's build.

I imagine that they could if the judge ruled, but I don't see that happening here. (sorry for the misinterpretation)

 

[carnnell]

Well, so much for my vision of the jurors doing a 12 Angry Men reprise of the 62 sec. melee with CEO watching the time as Wrestler Guy jumps out and picks up/body slams Ponytail Girl, who hightails it around the jury room twice with Wrestler guy in hot pursuit, jumps on a chair and reaches high, jumps down, runs across the room, and pivots in "Stop or I'll shoot!" mode.

12 Angry Men is one of my favorite movies. I suggest that juries watch it as to how to critical think, deductive reasoning and how prejudice and emotional/family issues affect deliberations.

Excellent movie!!!

 

[rhondavous]

Something that has never sit right with me is is that Jodi says that Travis was cleaning the floor (after sex and before computer fun time). She said he had all the furniture up on the couch as he was sweeping. This is one piece of information that is semi-corroborated--a roommate testified that he noticed the furniture on the couch and after a few days, took it down.

I'm wondering if that wasn't part of Jodi's "clean up". Not that she would have to mop the whole floor, but if she dripped blood through the house to the washing machine, she would have cleaned it up. And it doesn't match Travis' behavior to leave the furniture on the couch after cleaning.

Unless of course he was waiting for the floor to dry? That seems unlikely. Whattaya think?

And remember Jodi saying that she couldn't sit on the couch because that is where Travis put the chairs. Guess she was no longer on the Housekeeping payroll. There is definitely more to this story.

 

[GoodGurl]

Something that has never sit right with me is is that Jodi says that Travis was cleaning the floor (after sex and before computer fun time). She said he had all the furniture up on the couch as he was sweeping. This is one piece of information that is semi-corroborated--a roommate testified that he noticed the furniture on the couch and after a few days, took it down.

I'm wondering if that wasn't part of Jodi's "clean up". Not that she would have to mop the whole floor, but if she dripped blood through the house to the washing machine, she would have cleaned it up. And it doesn't match Travis' behavior to leave the furniture on the couch after cleaning.

Unless of course he was waiting for the floor to dry? That seems unlikely. Whattaya think?

That's odd to me too, and I've tried to make it fit. ONLY thing I come up with is - she was there, he consented to the sex, and then he was trying to just get her to leave by doing his cleaning, a load of laundry of the sheets, etc. She just wouldn't leave. He ends up consenting to the shower pictures.

 

[perfectvirgo]

Does anyone find it strange that they can't find a proper projector that they don't have to "rig" by taping a piece of cardboard atop of it?

Surely technology is more advanced than that. Yes, this is a small pet peeve of mine....can't help it.

I think the card they place on top of the projector is to provide shade from the overhead lights in court. The photographic images in particular are highly reflective and the artificial light can end up projected onto the screens.

 

[GoodGurl]

Well, so much for my vision of the jurors doing a 12 Angry Men reprise of the 62 sec. melee with CEO watching the time as Wrestler Guy jumps out and picks up/body slams Ponytail Girl, who hightails it around the jury room twice with Wrestler guy in hot pursuit, jumps on a chair and reaches high, jumps down, runs across the room, and pivots in "Stop or I'll shoot!" mode.

HIGH FIVE! My vision too! It's got to happen in some form, lets just keep it legal.

 

[Nosey Parker]

I imagine that they could if the judge ruled, but I don't see that happening here. (sorry for the misinterpretation)

Neither do I. In the grand scheme of things it is not that important. My original post was really intended as a 'waiting for the live stream' joke.

 

[Keebler]

It's not murder one if she doesn't use the gun to kill him, per the ME's testimony.

I think you need to go back over the facts of this case.

 

[lmkag96]

No, the jury can not do any investigating or "experimenting" of the case on their own. Think about it, that would bring evidence, into their deliberations/thought process that has not come in through the court case. That's why there are so many court hearings, proffers, objections, etc., so that the evidence admitted in the court is allowed. Probative and not prejudicial to the defendant.

Also, can you imagine during deliberations there would be 12 different experiments on 12 different days in 12 different closets in 12 different houses by 12 different people at 12 different times. All experiments would not have matched JA's action.

Would you like your fate decided by someone who deliberated on evidence not presented in the courtroom where your attorney had your defense in mind with every question of testimony and each and every exhibit? :twocents:

I would guess that the judge could approve the jury going on a field trip to the house and have JA demonstrate what she did in the closet. I wouldn't bet money on it happening, though.

I imagine that they could if the judge ruled, but I don't see that happening here. (sorry for the misinterpretation)

No problem. But, why not...I mean, that would be HUGE! Why not do everything possible to solve a case? I need to be a judge! LOL

 

[katiewonders]

Well, so much for my vision of the jurors doing a 12 Angry Men reprise of the 62 sec. melee with CEO watching the time as Wrestler Guy jumps out and picks up/body slams Ponytail Girl, who hightails it around the jury room twice with Wrestler guy in hot pursuit, jumps on a chair and reaches high, jumps down, runs across the room, and pivots in "Stop or I'll shoot!" mode.

Take heart! Carnnell - upthread - says they can!

 

[Hopeful One]

One of our verified attorneys can clarify but premeditation does not lie on what type of weapon is used when. It is the mindset of the attacker and evidence that shows the mindset.

Travis ended up dead after a 1000 mile road trip. Not just dead but OVERKILLED. Now you can discount the hair dye, rental car, gas cans, theft of a gun that conveniently was the same caliber as the one used in his death and the long trip itself if you want. You still have pre meditated murder.

She didn't stab him just once or twice to stop him. Or shoot him once to stop him. She kept going. Over and over and over. That alone shows she wanted him dead. At some point she sliced his throat, nearly decapitating him. Again, it shows she wanted him dead. She inflicted injuries deliberately that she knew would kill him. That is was premeditated murder is- you want someone dead and you are going to do whatever it takes to get them there. It does not matter what order it all happened in or what weapon was used. Her intent was clear. That's why its murder one.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

:clap: :clap:

 

[lmkag96]

Sad, isn't it? It breaks my heart.

Not being particularly religious, I wondered why God wouldn't allow these cases to be solved? I'm not disrespecting anyone who said they thought God's hand was in the recovered pictures, or in Laci & Connor's bodies having washed ashore, everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I think some cases are lucky and some are not. It's just like with the psychics who talk to the dead, people remember the cases to support their belief and forget those that do not.

Yes, breaks my heart too. And how lucky is the person in the Kesse case on surveillance video where in every shot, his/her face is hidden b/c of the timing of the camera!!!

 

[LadyEdith]

11) using the word "obsessed" in her testibaloney
12) sending irises to TA's grandmother
13) leaving voicemails, texts and emails after the murder
14) uttering the "No jury will convict me" line
15) telling Detective Flores TA never had a gun

Good post. Still thinking....

Let's not forget "Smile and Say Cheese!"

 

[carnnell]

Take heart! Carnnell - upthread - says they can!

Wouldn't that be great!!!

 

[popsicle]

Any Washingtonians in the house? I am at a hotel in Spokane, and I'll be damned if they don't have HLN. I am watching CNN right now and thinking, surely this can't be right. Anyone know what channel HLN usually airs on in or around the Spokane, WA area?

what is the zip code there, do you know?