The ransom note & Patsy Ramsey, letter by letter.

[BBB167893]

Dave, are you saying the reports don't exist or they didn't have those conclusions or they were all flawed reports?

I'm saying that they DON'T say what the Carnes ruling says. PMPT hints very strongly that they don't, and in some cases states it flat-out. The reports Carnes saw were preliminary reports that were done very early on in the case before LE even had a proper sample to work with. PMPT states that and Carol McKinley confirmed it on our radio broadcast last month. I'm not just pulling this out of my nether regions, you know.

Speaking purely for myself, the fact that Haddon was so intent on hiding them even from his own clients, says it all.

I really don't see a reason to doubt that they say what's stated in Carnes' ruling.

Sadly, you probably don't. But there are PLENTY of reasons to doubt it. Aside from the ones I just mentioned, there's the issue of HOW they were obtaned.

Hoffman appeared to accept those opinions as stated as fact.

That's a big part of the problem, Squirrel. He accepted a LOT of things as fact that were not fact. I'm not the first person to point that out, either. I'll tell you, I'm at a loss to explain his conduct in the Wolf suit. Talk about out-to-lunch. I realize he didn't have much choice, since the DA wouldn't allow him access to the case file, but he hardly even tried. I'm not the only person to wonder where his head was.

Hunter also gave the same description of the experts as well.

And he was wrong. There's no other way to say it, Squirrel. It's been questioned as to how much about this case Hunter actually knew and to what extent he was misinformed. Not too long ago, ST actually remarked on this. According to him, Hunter was confused and actually was speaking about something else. I'll try to find the exact quote.

Moreover, Carol McKinley's findings contradict what he said. Sounds like a problem.

I don't understand the suspicion about the description of these reports, especially considering handwriting analysis isn't the most precise science, if a science.

It's complicated, Squirrel. It would take some time to explain. But I'll say this: you can't have it both ways, and IDI often tries. IDI accepts highly questionable reports (which the defense attorney doesn't want us to see) as gospel, but any time an expert comes along who names PR as the author, suddenly "it's not a science." Anybody else notice that?

 

[BBB167893]

Its an inside job. A case of sexual molestation, how a little girl was being abused, whilst being taught it was all normal, just part of every day life, just like her pageants!

I agree. It makes total sense to me.

 

[DeeDee249]

BEM: ....and the pen, paper, door knob to JonBenet's room, the pineapple bowl, her blanket, the legs of her long johns, the stair railings, the door to the basement - you know darn well they tested all of these things and the only place they found the foreign DNA was the waist of the longjohns and her undies.

Good point about the bicycle handlebars...

Let's not forget the handle of the suitcase the "intruder" was said to climb on, the window grate he would have had to have moved and then put back, the tissue box Patsy claimed didn't belong to her, and the chair he was "clever enough" to pull THROUGH A CLOSED DOOR when he "escaped".

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

It's complicated, Squirrel. It would take some time to explain. But I'll say this: you can't have it both ways, and IDI often tries. IDI accepts highly questionable reports (which the defense attorney doesn't want us to see) as gospel, but any time an expert comes along who names PR as the author, suddenly "it's not a science." Anybody else notice that?

I do agree there are a lot of questionable reports taken as fact from all corners. It makes this case even more frustrating than it already would be. We don't have the actual evidence, but blurry shadows of it. It's also irks that we don't know know what was tested and examined and what wasn't. This is why I don't think any of us can honestly be certain about what happened. If maybe this crime happened in Florida, we wouldn't have to wonder about so much of it.

Such is life.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Compared to the Caylee Anthony case and the Haleigh Cummings case out in Florida where they have the Sunshine Law, how much information/evidence/documents has been released in the JBR case?

 

[BBB167893]

I do agree there are a lot of questionable reports taken as fact from all corners. It makes this case even more frustrating than it already would be. We don't have the actual evidence, but blurry shadows of it. It's also irks that we don't know know what was tested and examined and what wasn't. This is why I don't think any of us can honestly be certain about what happened. If maybe this crime happened in Florida, we wouldn't have to wonder about so much of it.

Such is life.

Now, you're talking my language, Squirrel. I've OFTEN said that if this crime had happened ANYWHERE except Boulder, someone's a** would be in prison THIS VERY DAY.

 

[learnin]

So why would Patsy say she changed JonBenet into those longjohns for bed?

Wouldn't it have been easier for her to say, if true, that when she got JonBenet ready for bed she just took her pants off and left her in the longjohns she already had on. That way she could have said she didn't even see under the longjohns to see the underwear either?

Possibly as a cover for any incriminating evidence she might have left behind in the redressing, etc.

If JBR did wear the longjohns to the Whites, I believe they were removed, temporarily, at some point after arriving home possibly because she had soiled her panties. Nedra stated she often did not wipe well thereby "dirtying" herself.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Let's not forget the handle of the suitcase the "intruder" was said to climb on, the window grate he would have had to have moved and then put back, the tissue box Patsy claimed didn't belong to her,

If there was an intruder, he almost certainly wore gloves.

and the chair he was "clever enough" to pull THROUGH A CLOSED DOOR when he "escaped".

The door opened into the room with the window.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

"I wonder if JonBenet had the longjohn on under the pants she wore to the party..."

I believe JBR did have the longjohns on at the party under her pants.

Why do you believe that?

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

BEM: ....and the pen, paper, door knob to JonBenet's room, the pineapple bowl, her blanket, the legs of her long johns, the stair railings, the door to the basement - you know darn well they tested all of these things and the only place they found the foreign DNA was the waist of the longjohns and her undies.

Touch DNA technology wasn't invented until the late 2000s. It was probably too late to test the surfaces in the house. They could test what they have in evidence though, as they did with the longjohns.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Just a point about the panty DNA- Please correct me if I an wrong, but the way I understand it, the TOUCH DNA was found on the WAISTBAND of the panties and longjohns, but the DNA under the spot of JB's blood in the panty crotch has not been identified as to it's substance. Therefore, the DNA ON the panties is Touch DNA/skin cells and the DNA IN the panties is unidentified.

The touch DNA tested was from the longjohns only, not the panties.

As to the the DNA from the blood spot inside the panties, the cell type has not been confirmed.

 

[vlpate]

If there was an intruder, he almost certainly wore gloves.



The door opened into the room with the window.

Even Lou Smit found this odd and asked John about it. John said he thought the intruder was very clever. I believe the door opened out.

 

[vlpate]

Touch DNA technology wasn't invented until the late 2000s. It was probably too late to test the surfaces in the house. They could test what they have in evidence though, as they did with the longjohns.

They have the flashlight, the pen, and the pad. The pen, especially should have rendered a sample considering how long it was held.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Even Lou Smit found this odd and asked John about it. John said he thought the intruder was very clever. I believe the door opened out.

It's a bit clever, but not magical.

They have the flashlight, the pen, and the pad. The pen, especially should have rendered a sample considering how long it was held.

Not if the writer wore gloves.

 

[vlpate]

It's a bit clever, but not magical.



Not if the writer wore gloves.

Firsr of all, this is not a crime scene photo, it's a Lou Smit after the fact photo. I may be mistaken in thinking this particular perp could not place a chair in front of a door that opens out -- this same perp performed many miracles that night, so, why not. Makes you wonder though, why didn't the intruder use the chair to go out the window rather than a wobbly suitcase?

No one, but apparently you, disputes the fact that the door opened out.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Nobody disputes it? Who has commented on it then? Please provide names and quotes, and then explain how they count more than the visual evidence. The above image is obviously a screen grab from an ABC News show. I don't know what it has to do with Lou Smit or how he has changed the doorway.

The floor plan diagram in PMPT also shows it opens in.

Here's a diagram from the Denver Post that shows the same.

You can also see the same doorway in this video at 5:12.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QofH2gBtC6A"]JonBenet Investigation Part 4 - YouTube[/ame]

I guess Bill Kurtis must be in on the Team Ramsey Grand Conspiracy as well. I hear his black leather jacket was a gift from John.

 

[vlpate]

Nobody disputes it? Who has commented on it then? Please provide names and quotes, and then explain how they count more than the visual evidence. The above image is obviously a screen grab from an ABC News show. I don't know what it has to do with Lou Smit or how he has changed the doorway.

The floor plan diagram in PMPT also shows it opens in.

Here's a diagram from the Denver Post that shows the same.

You can also see the same doorway in this video at 5:12.

JonBenet Investigation Part 4 - YouTube

I guess Bill Kurtis must be in on the Team Ramsey Grand Conspiracy as well. I hear his black leather jacket was a gift from John.

lol John admits, look up his "interview" with Smit... Bill Kurtis reports what he is told, he's not an investigative journalist, at least not in the case of JBR - he got a lot wrong, a LOT.

Your link isn't showing up.

 

[vlpate]

JR said he moved a chair out of the way. Show where he says the door opens out. Try to back up what you say for a change.

Back up what I say for a change? What have I not backed up that wasn't just my opinion smelly?

Are you disputing the door opened out, or the fact that it had to be moved for John to get into the room? I didn't comment either way to begin with, only that the chair had to be moved and was blocking the door...you took off with which way it opened. Smoke and mirrors, just like the chair.

 

[marge_rita]

Back up what I say for a change? What have I not backed up that wasn't just my opinion smelly?

Are you disputing the door opened out, or the fact that it had to be moved for John to get into the room? I didn't comment either way to begin with, only that the chair had to be moved and was blocking the door...you took off with which way it opened. Smoke and mirrors, just like the chair.

It wont matter if you back it up. :crazy: lol

 

[houndstooth]

MENE, MENE, TEKEL, PERES... The writing on the wall.....

The phrase the writing on the wall has come to signify a portent of doom—or the end of an organization or activity. To attribute to someone the ability to "read the writing on the wall" has come to signify the ability to foresee (not necessarily supernaturally) an inevitable decline and end.

The phrase "the handwriting is on the wall" is casually used to denote events that seem destined to occur. Yet the original use of that phrase, from the Bible, was anything but casual.
During the time of Daniel, the imminent fall of the great Babylonian empire was foretold when a floating human hand appeared at a party, writing an enigmatic message on the wall. The occasion was a celebratory banquet, and some of the circumstances and attitudes are remarkably similar to an event that just happened.
What offenses transpired at Belshazzar's banquet so long ago that incited the Lord to utter, in effect, "that's it, your party is over"?

Hmmmm what offenses transpired in the house on 15th st?

Exactly. Like was the statement where the bonus was given still on the counter on top of the mail, stuff like that? I also recall that the book that was on the nightstand, (I don't remember the title now), was a thriller. A few pages before the dog ear was a scene invoving a ransom note to the effect of a "small faction", kidnapping, , and other key words that found their way into the RN.

And I think your observation is astute, that the writer was just glancing around for inspiration as well.

The don't grow a brain, John, and references to southern good sense or some such nonsense sounds like a woman's pov not a man's.

The handwriting is a definite match. It tells me the throwing of the case was intentional.

There is only one person that would cause J and P to stick together on their story until her death.