Glow
Active Member
Here is a link to a discussion of that vaccination
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67097
The Rest of the Story...
- Thread starter Glow
- Start date
Here is a link to a discussion of that vaccination
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67097
Glow, if you wish to talk about that thread, then bump it up and post on it. There is also a thread specifically devoted to discussion of the FLDS dresses. Why not join in the discussion in the threads that other posters have started? This is not your own personal blog. 
Rocky was also a little bit hard of hearing. But at least he seemed like a kind and lovable person who simply made the error of commandeering the websleuths server to post his own erratic, but mostly harmless, musings. He certainly never (from the limited posts I have read) advocated any sort of harm or violence or sexual assault on a child.
You have really pushed that issue to the extreme by insisting that as soon as a girl has her first period, you no longer consider her a child, but rather a 'sexually mature being' who gives off 'sexual triggers', and is therefore fair game for any adult male to assault.
Rocky was also a little bit hard of hearing. But at least he seemed like a kind and lovable person who simply made the error of commandeering the websleuths server to post his own erratic, but mostly harmless, musings. He certainly never (from the limited posts I have read) advocated any sort of harm or violence or sexual assault on a child.
You have really pushed that issue to the extreme by insisting that as soon as a girl has her first period, you no longer consider her a child, but rather a 'sexually mature being' who gives off 'sexual triggers', and is therefore fair game for any adult male to assault.
SewingDeb
"Sorry, I'm not qualified to land the plane."
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Truly to Glow,
You have really pushed that issue to the extreme by insisting that as soon as a girl has her first period, you no longer consider her a child, but rather a 'sexually mature being' who gives off 'sexual triggers', and is therefore fair game for any adult male to assault.
----
Truly, that's what really bothers me about this case. It's the destroying of innocence and those girls are probably the most innocent preteens and teens in this country from being so sheltered all their lives.
You have really pushed that issue to the extreme by insisting that as soon as a girl has her first period, you no longer consider her a child, but rather a 'sexually mature being' who gives off 'sexual triggers', and is therefore fair game for any adult male to assault.
----
Truly, that's what really bothers me about this case. It's the destroying of innocence and those girls are probably the most innocent preteens and teens in this country from being so sheltered all their lives.
SewingDeb
"Sorry, I'm not qualified to land the plane."
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Glow, about your picture. I've yet to see one FLDS woman wearing a scoop necked, short sleeved dress with a slit up the front. That would probably be cause for excommunication.
The dress is long and that's about the only comparison to their clothing.
The dress is long and that's about the only comparison to their clothing.
Glow
Active Member
I know SewingDeb. I guess I was being too subtle in an attempt at wit.....
That post is a response from the "FLDS" side of things to the people who have been making fun of the FLDS for setting up a clothing site online.
People grasping at anything and everything that could possibly be spun in a negative way have zeroed in on their "awful" clothing.
This was one websites tongue in cheek response to all of that.
I posted it as being part of the rest of the story from my post( # 289) back in June.
Guess I should have been more clear huh?
Glow
Active Member
A couple of days ago I posted a picture of one of the FLDS children coloring. The reason that was "picture worthy" was because this was one of the myths from the early days after the raid. Remember when we were told the children didnt know what crayons were?
I remember lots of angry posts about just that one thing.
Turns out that was a lie. There are now pictures that were taken at YFZ BEFORE the children were returned and their colored pictures are clear to see.
Such a small and trivial matter, right?
Wrong. It is not trivial when it is fed to the media by misguided people.
It is not trivial when the official spokespeople knew better and stayed mum so that negative information could continue to fan the flames of public emotion.
At this point a fair minded and thinking person would have to wonder what other bits of trivia we were fed are also lies?
That said, here is an article on the great crayon cover up.
Crayolas - Part I
by Jim Patrick
The tale first came to us as an illustration of how oppressive the YFZ community was; that children weren’t allowed to draw with crayons and didn’t even know what crayons were; that nobody was allowed to wear red clothing.
Like much other intolerance, it came buried in another stream of information; the slurs and slanders embedded into the narrative as if they were known truth.
“The mother was maybe 16, maybe 16, didn’t know what to do with Crayola. She said what are we supposed to do with these?” — Helen Pfluger, Church Volunteer, [interview on CNN]
“When we handed out the Crayolas, they just stared at them,” says Pfluger, who was volunteering at the church. “I think they were trying to decide if a crayon was something you were supposed to eat.” — [Helen Pfluger, interview in People magazine]
“Another San Angelo church had brought some coloring pages and crayons,” she said. “They didn’t know what to do with them, and their mothers didn’t either.” Learning to color will be one of many challenges the children will face if they’re permanently removed from YFZ ranch. —[Helen Pfluger on CNN again]
Occam’s Razor —the logic indicating that the simplest explanation is the most likely— suggests this woman is part and party to the greatest assault on human dignity and worst US civil rights violation in this century. But I’m forced to admit there’s a coherent, if dismal, story to bolster Pfluger’s side of things.
We know that every mother she met was far, far older than 18 (at least among the FLDS, her own church and community may be different) but the statement establishes her pre-judgment once and for all. Pfluger had read ‘those books’ and believed every word.
What we have here is a matter of perception. After being interrogated all night long, (from 9 PM until daylight) the residents of YFZ ranch were forced out —at gunpoint— onto Eldorado First Baptist Church buses. From there they were driven —under armed escort— to Eldorado First Baptist Church itself, and compelled to go into its assembly hall.
Inside Ms. Pfluger met them, handing out crayons. Even then she couldn’t see herself as she was.
“They huddled together. It was very obvious they were scared. They were non-responsive. They looked like deer caught in the headlights,” said church leader Helen Pfluger Houston Chronicle
Helen Pfluger, who attends the Eldorado First Baptist Church, said, “They were afraid of us because they’d been taught that we are evil.” —[WKSL TV]
The problem is what she perceived; or more correctly, what she did not perceive. Nothing Helen Pfluger said indicates the least concern —nothing out of the ordinary— with forcing people out of their homes at gunpoint. She then acts surprised when these same folks don’t see the light of love in her face. Duh!
http://iperceive.net/crayolas-part-i/#more-565
I remember lots of angry posts about just that one thing.
Turns out that was a lie. There are now pictures that were taken at YFZ BEFORE the children were returned and their colored pictures are clear to see.
Such a small and trivial matter, right?
Wrong. It is not trivial when it is fed to the media by misguided people.
It is not trivial when the official spokespeople knew better and stayed mum so that negative information could continue to fan the flames of public emotion.
At this point a fair minded and thinking person would have to wonder what other bits of trivia we were fed are also lies?
That said, here is an article on the great crayon cover up.
Crayolas - Part I
by Jim Patrick
The tale first came to us as an illustration of how oppressive the YFZ community was; that children weren’t allowed to draw with crayons and didn’t even know what crayons were; that nobody was allowed to wear red clothing.
Like much other intolerance, it came buried in another stream of information; the slurs and slanders embedded into the narrative as if they were known truth.
“The mother was maybe 16, maybe 16, didn’t know what to do with Crayola. She said what are we supposed to do with these?” — Helen Pfluger, Church Volunteer, [interview on CNN]
“When we handed out the Crayolas, they just stared at them,” says Pfluger, who was volunteering at the church. “I think they were trying to decide if a crayon was something you were supposed to eat.” — [Helen Pfluger, interview in People magazine]
“Another San Angelo church had brought some coloring pages and crayons,” she said. “They didn’t know what to do with them, and their mothers didn’t either.” Learning to color will be one of many challenges the children will face if they’re permanently removed from YFZ ranch. —[Helen Pfluger on CNN again]
Occam’s Razor —the logic indicating that the simplest explanation is the most likely— suggests this woman is part and party to the greatest assault on human dignity and worst US civil rights violation in this century. But I’m forced to admit there’s a coherent, if dismal, story to bolster Pfluger’s side of things.
We know that every mother she met was far, far older than 18 (at least among the FLDS, her own church and community may be different) but the statement establishes her pre-judgment once and for all. Pfluger had read ‘those books’ and believed every word.
What we have here is a matter of perception. After being interrogated all night long, (from 9 PM until daylight) the residents of YFZ ranch were forced out —at gunpoint— onto Eldorado First Baptist Church buses. From there they were driven —under armed escort— to Eldorado First Baptist Church itself, and compelled to go into its assembly hall.
Inside Ms. Pfluger met them, handing out crayons. Even then she couldn’t see herself as she was.
“They huddled together. It was very obvious they were scared. They were non-responsive. They looked like deer caught in the headlights,” said church leader Helen Pfluger Houston Chronicle
Helen Pfluger, who attends the Eldorado First Baptist Church, said, “They were afraid of us because they’d been taught that we are evil.” —[WKSL TV]
The problem is what she perceived; or more correctly, what she did not perceive. Nothing Helen Pfluger said indicates the least concern —nothing out of the ordinary— with forcing people out of their homes at gunpoint. She then acts surprised when these same folks don’t see the light of love in her face. Duh!
http://iperceive.net/crayolas-part-i/#more-565
I have to take issue with that. Because I see the old order Amish, and Mennonites ... my neighbors, every single day. They all dress alike, often have 1/2" bald spots in the parts in their hair from pulling it tightly back for so many years, and are even more conservative looking than FLDS. does that scream anything to you? The Mennonites look alot like the FLDS. Do the way they dress scream out to you too?
Glow
Active Member
"How can children see what the adults around them cannot?
TRUTH WILL PREVAIL has posted a piece that should be seen and read by everyone involved in this mess, maybe some will even see the wrong they have heaped upon these innocent people for reasons that have nothing to do with child abuse or neglect.
The children who made the video did it because they saw the wrong that was being done and wanted to express their feelings and offer the children of the Ranch a gift of their song from their hearts."
http://www.flds.ws/
MUST SEE VIDEO - "This Song Is For the Children" song by non FLDS children
http://www.truthwillprevail.org/index.php?parentid=1&index=97
You have to scroll to the bottom to see the video.
TRUTH WILL PREVAIL has posted a piece that should be seen and read by everyone involved in this mess, maybe some will even see the wrong they have heaped upon these innocent people for reasons that have nothing to do with child abuse or neglect.
The children who made the video did it because they saw the wrong that was being done and wanted to express their feelings and offer the children of the Ranch a gift of their song from their hearts."
http://www.flds.ws/
MUST SEE VIDEO - "This Song Is For the Children" song by non FLDS children
http://www.truthwillprevail.org/index.php?parentid=1&index=97
You have to scroll to the bottom to see the video.
Glow
Active Member
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=23675089&postID=96489160027822000
The first classes on the ranch were held last week. The "Teachers" weren't sure why they were there other than because they were told to be there.
They will be back next week and have decided to teach the Mother's CPR because it "Looks good" on paper.
Every Parent knows CPR since the Ranch has it's own Dr., Nurses and Midwives.
If Texas really wanted to get a bang for their buck, they would have Marleigh sat down and teach her how to identify an abused child.
Then they could sit walthers and voss down and teach them how to identify the difference between a teenage girl and a pregnant 37 year old woman.
If there's any money left over, they can teach the Texas Rangers the difference between 465 children and Osama Bin Laden before they accidentally shoot their foot off.
The first classes on the ranch were held last week. The "Teachers" weren't sure why they were there other than because they were told to be there.
They will be back next week and have decided to teach the Mother's CPR because it "Looks good" on paper.
Every Parent knows CPR since the Ranch has it's own Dr., Nurses and Midwives.
If Texas really wanted to get a bang for their buck, they would have Marleigh sat down and teach her how to identify an abused child.
Then they could sit walthers and voss down and teach them how to identify the difference between a teenage girl and a pregnant 37 year old woman.
If there's any money left over, they can teach the Texas Rangers the difference between 465 children and Osama Bin Laden before they accidentally shoot their foot off.
~Snip
I have a friend out here that is a big part of our ambulance crew and she didn't ever get past the 10th grade (no way is she dumb btw) so maybe it depends on where you live having to have a college degree.
Come to think of it I'm pretty sure none of them have any college but they are all volunteers and do a darn good job for a 600 sq mile area. That's all we have out here besides our flight for life pad.
Just maybe the flds were also 'volunteers'? Or do you have a link that they do indeed have college for that job?
Sly
I try to keep my mouth shut.. no, really I do, but if this thread looks like a blog and it bothers you, then maybe you should contact the admin on the site... accuse Glow of a WS takeover? :crazy: Seriously, I really like reading the "other side of the story", and it is one of the first threads I go to when I come to WS.Glow, if you wish to talk about that thread, then bump it up and post on it. There is also a thread specifically devoted to discussion of the FLDS dresses. Why not join in the discussion in the threads that other posters have started? This is not your own personal blog.
Rocky was also a little bit hard of hearing. But at least he seemed like a kind and lovable person who simply made the error of commandeering the websleuths server to post his own erratic, but mostly harmless, musings. He certainly never (from the limited posts I have read) advocated any sort of harm or violence or sexual assault on a child.
You have really pushed that issue to the extreme by insisting that as soon as a girl has her first period, you no longer consider her a child, but rather a 'sexually mature being' who gives off 'sexual triggers', and is therefore fair game for any adult male to assault.
I think we should be able to disagree, without attacking, or being personally insulting.
It is a great thread, and has TONS of views. KUDOS to Glow for starting it, and for following through with it.
So much for the no crayons...........
(sorry the picture is so big - I dont know how to make it smaller)
That looks like a coloring pencil to me... I ain't never seen a crayon that long, my Grandchildren don't have crayons that look like that..
I'm not sorry the photo was so big, it put a smile on my face.
What a handsome young man, he looks so much like my Son at age 4.
My Son in a Mommy made (100% cotton) shirt & haircut.
Sly
Ciara
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I have to say I agree with this. Not even remotely the same kind of dress.
Apparantly it showed up in a google of FLDS dresses.
Still.. the style is likely to be the latest rave in Hollywood at some point. hehe.
This pic looks EXACTLY like many of my neighbors, lacking the head covering. If my neighbors did not sew their own conservative clothing, I have no doubt that they would order from the FLDS catalog for modest clothing. My relatives are/were Old Order Amish, so they are not nearly as modern as this FLDS woman. This woman could grocery shop in our local stores, ride bike down mainstreet, and nobody would even look twice. Certainly her outfit would not scream anything other than modesty.
Glow
Active Member
Hi Sly,
I dont save links except in my head, so I googled and I found this -
Im an FLDS male member currently living in Colorado City, and I would like to try to dispel some of the horrendous rumors that abound about our people.
We absolutely DO NOT condone child abuse. This crap about breaking babies is just that absolute complete lies. I would immediately call 911 if I witnessed anyone doing that to a child. Our children are considered the most precious gifts that God gives to us, and are to be treated as such.
Young girls are not forced into marriage. They are asked if they have anyone in mind, and can say no to a marriage if they want. We do not believe that a girl must be married young. Most are married over the age of 18.
Were not a bunch of brainwashed dunces. We believe in hard work, learning as much as possible, and educating ourselves in every area that will be useful to us. For example, Im a website and software programmer. We highly value education, and Im sure you people out their know the dire state the countrys public education system is in.
The women are not held captive at home only to be abused and commanded by the husband. Thats complete crap. Weve got loads of women who work jobs. Id bet about 1/3 of the EMTs in our town are women. Nearly all of them have their own cell phones, even the unmarried teenagers. Its not like their held with no communication.
http://fldsview.blogspot.com/2008/05/fldsguy-speaks-out.html
I looked up the requirements for being an EMT in the state the man mentions living in and found this -
*Areas of Study to Be an EMT:
EMTs need to have a variety of technical knowledge, which can be gained from completing emergency medical courses. Here is a list of some of the courses a student may take:
Emergency Medical Technician-Basic
Emergency Medical Technician
First Responder
Hazardous Materials R and I
Emergency Vehicle Operations
First Aid
BLS Healthcare Provider
PALS (Pediatric Advanced Life Support) Provider
ACLS Provider
Heartsaver AED
Heartsaver AED with Pediatric CPR
CPR in Schools
CPR for Family and Friends
These courses allow students to acquire the skills needed to stabilize patients. Programs that include these courses are available at colleges and technical schools. Through those types of programs, students can receive certification after completing the necessary requirements.
http://education-portal.com/article..._How_to_Get_your_EMT_Basic_Certification.html
(This site said EMT's must be certified)
I also happened across this while I was looking. Here it talks about some of those at the ranch being certified teachers -
(does not say the gender)
Anonymous said...
I would like to know why the girls can't have more than an 8th grade education. I'm curious as to the curriculum used in the school on the ranch. Is it such that a student could pass the GED which is the way homeschooling in Texas is supposed to be?
FLDS_Guy said...
They can have as much education as they want. As with any group of people, there are those who choose to get more education than others. All my life, I've been taught that if I have an opportunity to learn something, I should take that opportunity and not waste it.
Definitely. I'm going to tell a little of my personal experience here. I went to the public school in Colorado City through 9th grade. Most of my teachers were FLDS, and I learned a lot from them. Then, I went to 2 years at a private FLDS school. The last two years of my schooling were much better than all my previous years. It felt like school didn't have to be dumbed down and we could learn as much as we were capable of. Just as an example, typing/computer skills was a MANDATORY high school class. Most of those attending school were people who wanted to be there and were willing to learn. I'll just say I had a great time there and I learned a LOT.
All that said, after 6 years of being out of school, I decided I may as well try to get my GED in case I ever needed it to apply for a new job. I went there with absolutely no studying before hand, and passed -- 98th percentile. I was amazed when the GED instructor said that 40% of our nation's high school graduates cannot pass a GED test, and most people fail the test on their first try. I personally thought the test was too easy. So, just what is being taught in our public schools these days?
Sorry to take this thread so far off course, but I just wanted to address the myth that we don't believe in education.
*****
IITMOC said...
Who said they can't have more than an 8th grade education?
I don't know for certain about the school on the ranch, but if it is anything like the Alta Academy, they teach through the 12th grade. And yes, I would think most all of the students old enough could easily pass a GED. What is taught may lack in some areas thought to be compromising of the faith, but these are very disciplined schools, teachers, and students. Some of the folks on the ranch are certified teachers and used to teach in public schools. I wouldn't be surprised if they were involved in the teaching at the ranch school.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=11081631&postID=6211739883908147132&isPopup=true
Glow
Active Member
That looks like a coloring pencil to me... I ain't never seen a crayon that long, my Grandchildren don't have crayons that look like that..
I'm not sorry the photo was so big, it put a smile on my face.
What a handsome young man, he looks so much like my Son at age 4.
My Son in a Mommy made (100% cotton) shirt & haircut.
Sly
Oh I just had to smile at the picture of your little boy. So cute!!!
Glow
Active Member
Thanks PSUfan,
Im glad you like reading every ones thoughts, so do I.
I comment on the other threads of this forum when I have something to add.
I didnt comment on the dress thread because I had already posted that link
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2325019&postcount=289
along with my comment a week or so before the other thread was started.
I have to say I am suprised that everyone has been commenting on the dresses. Todays really big news sweeping across the blogs, is the video that some non FLDS children made for the YFZ children.
Glow
Active Member
In researching the certification requirements for an EMT in Arizona I found an interesting fact. The rate monogamous families is the norm and the ratio of men to women is basically equal.
Previously I thought that Colorado City (where the Short Creek raid happened many years ago) was the bastion of the FLDS people. This was the town featured on Oprah and other shows as the hard core of FLDS if you will.
Here are the demographics from the U.S. Census -
There were 444 households out of which 83.1% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 85.8% were married couples living together, 3.6% had a female householder with no husband present, and 5.9% were non-families. 4.1% of all households were made up of individuals and 1.1% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 7.51 and the average family size was 7.58.
For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 91.3 males.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_City,_Arizona
Previously I thought that Colorado City (where the Short Creek raid happened many years ago) was the bastion of the FLDS people. This was the town featured on Oprah and other shows as the hard core of FLDS if you will.
Here are the demographics from the U.S. Census -
There were 444 households out of which 83.1% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 85.8% were married couples living together, 3.6% had a female householder with no husband present, and 5.9% were non-families. 4.1% of all households were made up of individuals and 1.1% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 7.51 and the average family size was 7.58.
For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 91.3 males.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_City,_Arizona
DuchessJules22
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Has anyone heard anything else on Warren Jeffs? The last that I heard was that he was in a Vegas hospital after he was found convulsing in his cell.
Glow
Active Member
Hi PomMom,
Welcome to WebSleuths
Here is a link about Jeffs
seems he's doin "fine"
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5883909.html
One of our fine posters here Rainbow has started a thread on this topic here
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67131
Welcome to WebSleuths
Here is a link about Jeffs
seems he's doin "fine"
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5883909.html
One of our fine posters here Rainbow has started a thread on this topic here
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67131
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