The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[Balthazar]

The one thing that really keeps me believing it's KC alone who is responsible for Caylee's death is that she is on trial for her life, and yet hasn't offered up a single pertinent bit of information or evidence to LE that points to another person of interest. We see her and her family toss Amy, Jesse, others, under the bus repeatedly, yet absolutely nothing links them to the crime. Amy was in Puerto Rico when Caylee disappeared IIRC, and it's so clearly not Jesse. Initially KC says she's protecting her family, yet no guards were put on them and they stayed in their home, the same home that everyone saw on the news hundreds of times. If she can offer up nothing plausible, then in my mind, the truth itself is so sordid and horrible she has decided to remain mum. If I were in her shoes and had any inkling of proof to offer to LE to divert suspicioun from myself, I would be screaming names from the rooftops, offering fact afer fact that ZFG existed. But everything she has thus far claimed has been 100% bogus. This is a woman on trial for her life. There is no way she would protect her daughter's murderer and be executed in place of that person. KC is a person with no regard for others. How can she expect anyone to believe that she is sitting in jail protecting someone who killed her only child? It requires a suspension of belief no thinking person can achieve.

Except this: Casey was arrested on July 16 and from that point forward had an attorney who has told her NOT to talk to police or anyone about her case. We have seen Casey, on the day she was arrested for murder tell the police that she has wanted to talk with them for so long but with her attorney present. The police called Baez who came down to the station. Baez took Casey into another room and a few minutes later told police they would not be talking to them that day. So clearly, Casey is being restrained from talking to police by her attorney. Why this is, we don't know. But that is not an indication of guilt or innocence.

 

[USARDOG]

. Oh Princess... yours is a unique prospective. KC has had the opportunity to talk to police from day one, her father begged her to talk to them, but instead she made up a cockenbull story about "Powerful forces," and the police couldn't be trusted... In stead of being honest and trying to help them recover her daughter, she chose to do nothing but lie, she lied about her job, lied about her daughter, lied about the nanny. The only person who can keep up with her lies is her mother CA, these two are the biggest, but worst liars I have ever seen in all my years

 

[Jolynna]

IF some political bigwig is in a compromising picture it seems to me it would be easier (and less attention-getting) to kill Casey (permanently shutting her up) than her 2-yr-old child (who can barely talk).

BUT, if an evil rich person or group killed Caylee and is paying for Casey's defense, that can't be used by Baez and team. Evil baby-killers wouldn't pay millions to throw themselves under the bus.

The state is asking for the death penalty. It doesn't look like the powers in charge are covering Casey's fanny.

Casey could be executed,what threat is worse? Does Casey value George's and Cindy's lives more than her own?

The other reason I don't think Casey was involved with nefarious bigwigs is because almost every minute of her time over the summer of '08 can be accounted for. Casey spent all of her time either sitting at her parent's house or with associates who are not bigwigs (just ordinary twenty somethings).

 

[USARDOG]

KC tells different people different stories, she tells one she has known the nanny for 4 years, another she has known the nanny for 6 years and they are very close. Yet she doesn't have one single picture of this 10, who she claims she provides 50% of this person's income, the other 50% coming from her friend Jeff who's children this nanny also watches... Only Jeff doesn't have any children... No, KC has had every opportunity to tell what she knows, but she chooses to lie in stead.

 

[USARDOG]

KC and CA have blown this case wide open. Neither can keep their mouth shut, so the police have more than enough information to send KC to the needle, and I hope CA gets charged with obstruction of justice, she sure deserves it.

 

[Balthazar]

How did the guy get KC to agree to drive the car, refuse to report her child missing, and lie endlessly to LE?

If the guy was stalking Casey and took Caylee to "teach her a lesson" Casey may have initially believed that Caylee was safe and that she could "handle" the situation. Many women who are emotionally abused and stalked will react in this way. If a woman comes from a home where she was emotionally abused by her parents, she may think that this is normal and go along with it. The woman may not even realize she are being stalked until it is too late. Casey only talked to LE on July 15 and July 16 up until her first arrest. At that point, she hired Baez and she has said nothing more to police, although we know she wanted to talk to them when she was arrested months later for murder and we also know that Baez stopped her. So I don't think that we can say Casey has lied endlessly to LE. That's not factual.

We do not know if Casey ever knew that Caylee was in the trunk of her car. We know that she knew it stunk and she blamed it on her dad hitting squirrels and attempted to deodorize it. We know that the car was abandoned due to being out of gas and that Casey attempted to get gas for the car right up until it was towed.

If one counters, "She lied to protect Caylee," how did the guy get her to CONTINUE to lie, after it was established that Caylee was dead? (Thus, in no need of protection).

Caylee being found dead may have been proof to Casey that this guy could and would kill her whole family, her boyfriend...whoever she cared about. It may have insured her continued silence. In addition, Casey did not continue to lie after Caylee was found dead. She has not said ANYTHING to police since she was first arrested and engaged Baez as her attorney. At this point, Casey is under Baez' control.

How is he coercing her to refuse to tell what she knows, now that she has everything to lose and nothing to gain?

It appears that Baez is preventing her from talking to police - based on the incident when Casey was arrested for murder. We don't know why that is. It may be because Baez believes the only safe way to reveal what is going on is in a very public way that will prevent the person from taking action and the police from conveniently overlooking it. I'm honestly not 100% convinced that Baez is handling this case perfectly. But I don't know what he knows. All we know is that her attorneys have compared Casey to Sam Sheppard, said that "she should never have been arrested in the first place," and that Casey is innocent and it will all come out at trial.

Lastly.... how did he make her enjoy all those parties, while her child was "missing?"

It may have been that initially Casey didn't know her child was "missing." She may have thought the guy took Caylee from her to "teach her a lesson" - just like how he gave her two flat tires to teach her a lesson and tampered with her car - but that Caylee would be fine and would be returned to her. That's the problem with stalking/abuse victims - they often think they know their abuser is really a nice person and "can handle" the situation even though the stalking is escalating out of control. Many stalking victims don't even recognize that they are being stalked until it is too late and someone winds up dead or severly injured.

One scenario could be that the abuser put Caylee in the trunk of Casey's car and took her out before Casey was ever aware that Caylee was in there leaving Casey with a puzzling odor that she could not explain.

The vast majority of convictions are founded on circumstantial evidence.

Yes, that is true.[/quote]

Incidentally, I'm not saying I am convinced this is what happened, but that this is what I think the defense may say.

 

[USARDOG]

Incidentally, I'm not saying I am convinced this is what happened, but that this is what I think the defense may say.

Good Lord, if this is what the defense has planned, KC could have a second trial on the basis of incompetent council. This will never fly as there is no evidence to back it up. All her movements and contacts of every type are accounted for.

 

[Brini]

How did the guy get KC to agree to drive the car, refuse to report her child missing, and lie endlessly to LE?

If the guy was stalking Casey and took Caylee to "teach her a lesson" Casey may have initially believed that Caylee was safe and that she could "handle" the situation. Many women who are emotionally abused and stalked will react in this way. If a woman comes from a home where she was emotionally abused by her parents, she may think that this is normal and go along with it. The woman may not even realize she are being stalked until it is too late. Casey only talked to LE on July 15 and July 16 up until her first arrest. At that point, she hired Baez and she has said nothing more to police, although we know she wanted to talk to them when she was arrested months later for murder and we also know that Baez stopped her. So I don't think that we can say Casey has lied endlessly to LE. That's not factual.

We do not know if Casey ever knew that Caylee was in the trunk of her car. We know that she knew it stunk and she blamed it on her dad hitting squirrels and attempted to deodorize it. We know that the car was abandoned due to being out of gas and that Casey attempted to get gas for the car right up until it was towed.

If one counters, "She lied to protect Caylee," how did the guy get her to CONTINUE to lie, after it was established that Caylee was dead? (Thus, in no need of protection).

Caylee being found dead may have been proof to Casey that this guy could and would kill her whole family, her boyfriend...whoever she cared about. It may have insured her continued silence. In addition, Casey did not continue to lie after Caylee was found dead. She has not said ANYTHING to police since she was first arrested and engaged Baez as her attorney. At this point, Casey is under Baez' control.

How is he coercing her to refuse to tell what she knows, now that she has everything to lose and nothing to gain?

It appears that Baez is preventing her from talking to police - based on the incident when Casey was arrested for murder. We don't know why that is. It may be because Baez believes the only safe way to reveal what is going on is in a very public way that will prevent the person from taking action and the police from conveniently overlooking it. I'm honestly not 100% convinced that Baez is handling this case perfectly. But I don't know what he knows. All we know is that her attorneys have compared Casey to Sam Sheppard, said that "she should never have been arrested in the first place," and that Casey is innocent and it will all come out at trial.

Lastly.... how did he make her enjoy all those parties, while her child was "missing?"

It may have been that initially Casey didn't know her child was "missing." She may have thought the guy took Caylee from her to "teach her a lesson" - just like how he gave her two flat tires to teach her a lesson and tampered with her car - but that Caylee would be fine and would be returned to her. That's the problem with stalking/abuse victims - they often think they know their abuser is really a nice person and "can handle" the situation even though the stalking is escalating out of control. Many stalking victims don't even recognize that they are being stalked until it is too late and someone winds up dead or severly injured.

One scenario could be that the abuser put Caylee in the trunk of Casey's car and took her out before Casey was ever aware that Caylee was in there leaving Casey with a puzzling odor that she could not explain.

The vast majority of convictions are founded on circumstantial evidence.

Yes, that is true.[/quote]

Incidentally, I'm not saying I am convinced this is what happened, but that this is what I think the defense may say.

Evidence of, to begin with, stalking? Identity of the guy?

 

[Balthazar]

Good post again :clap:
but on #3 my question is still where did JB come from?
His strategy is not sounding to me as if he is ALL for Casey.
I am not an attorney but in my youth a manged a law firm, and something here feels off...
In part I do believe this man beside for not being experience is out for himself, that frightens me.

The story on JB has been that when Casey was arrested initially she got his name from another inmate. We don't know if this is true or not. Clearly JB is out to make a name for himself with this very high profile client. Any attorney with this opportunity would be crazy not to take it. This is a career making case, if he can get her off. And I agree, his strategy for Casey may not be 100% in her best interest. But without knowing her story and details of what has been said between them and what her entire legal team has discussed, it is impossible to judge the situation.

 

[songline]

I do not know if anyone has seen this.
From Caseys Phone:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYT77EFG8pI&feature=related"]YouTube - Casey Anthony Evidence Photos from the Prosecuter's Office with pictures from Casey's Cell Phone - Caylee Marie[/ame]

Anthony home web cam.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNvriqrvARA&feature=related"]YouTube - Casey Anthony Home Web. Cam[/ame]

 

[USARDOG]

The story on JB has been that when Casey was arrested initially she got his name from another inmate. We don't know if this is true or not. Clearly JB is out to make a name for himself with this very high profile client. Any attorney with this opportunity would be crazy not to take it. This is a career making case, if he can get her off. And I agree, his strategy for Casey may not be 100% in her best interest. But without knowing her story and details of what has been said between them and what her entire legal team has discussed, it is impossible to judge the situation.

Now I hate to hear you say he may not be working 100% in her best interest, as this might be grounds for a new trial, and I for one wish she would do the honest thing and confess, and save us all the trouble and expense.

As to JB making a name for himself, I agree, though with KC on death row I'm not sure it will be the name he bargened for.

 

[Balthazar]

Problems I see with this type of SODDI theory is that if this were even close to being true, then why does KC act like nothing is wrong during her court appearances? Why does she appear to be happy, laughing, smiling at her attorneys, the camera at anyone playing attention to her while she is in court? If some nefarious person(s) did this, KC has no reason not to talk to LE to help put these persons in jail and be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?

She can't because I do not believe they exist. KC isn't smart enough to be involved with these types of people. Plus I don't think people who are capable of killing another person would bother with the likes of KC. She isn't capable of following directions given by others. She marches to her own tune making them up as she goes in ten second intervals.

Being an unlikeable person does not make you guilty of a crime. Look at the Lindy Chamberlain case - people thought she was guilty because she named her baby Azaria and bought a black velvet dress for her and was unemotional and stoic about her daughter's disappearance and a Seventh Day Adventist. Everyone laughed and sneered at her story that a dingo took her baby out of a tent at Ayers Rock and said it was impossible and that a dingo could not lift a 9 week old infant, when only 3 weeks earlier a dingo had snatched a 3 year old child in the same area - luckily in that case, the parents saw it happen and retrieved their child from the dingo. Lindy was convicted of murder based on her behavior and weak forensic evidence that supposedly proved that she slit Azaria's throat in the car and packed her in a large camera case. This despite all the witnesses at the camp site who supported Lindy's dingo story and an aborigine couple who tracked the dingo that night and found places where it had laid the baby down in the sand. Then a few years later her baby's blood-stained clothes were found in a area that was full of dingo lairs. I think that we can't judge Casey based on her behavior in court. She spends 23 hours a day alone in her cell. Is it any wonder that she is happy to be out of there even if it's just in court? Again, we have seen that Casey wanted to talk to police but Baez restrained her from doing so. We don't know why and cannot judge her based on this.

Exactly what I think .... CA is a loose cannon all around with GA. They all know what happened when it happened and who was the main person responsible for Caylee's murder as well as the clean up.

I don't remember the exact phrase CA told KC during the early arrest but it was something to the effect of ..... don't worry they haven't found anything ....... does anyone else remember this?

Casey said "Don't worry, I haven't said anything."

I imagine that Casey's parents told her not to talk to police without a lawyer present and that is what she was referring to.

 

[Balthazar]

Princess Rose, I can't find any evidence of the conversation you describe. Would you be kind enough to post a link to where you found it.

The conversation was in George's taped interview with the FBI. There are 7 parts to the interview and I don't have time to go back to determine which part this was mentioned in, but it's in there.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18032990/detail.html

 

[countzero]

Originally Posted by countzero View Post
Problems I see with this type of SODDI theory is that if this were even close to being true, then why does KC act like nothing is wrong during her court appearances? Why does she appear to be happy, laughing, smiling at her attorneys, the camera at anyone playing attention to her while she is in court? If some nefarious person(s) did this, KC has no reason not to talk to LE to help put these persons in jail and be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?

She can't because I do not believe they exist. KC isn't smart enough to be involved with these types of people. Plus I don't think people who are capable of killing another person would bother with the likes of KC. She isn't capable of following directions given by others. She marches to her own tune making them up as she goes in ten second intervals.

Being an unlikeable person does not make you guilty of a crime. Look at the Lindy Chamberlain case - people thought she was guilty because she named her baby Azaria and bought a black velvet dress for her and was unemotional and stoic about her daughter's disappearance and a Seventh Day Adventist. Everyone laughed and sneered at her story that a dingo took her baby out of a tent at Ayers Rock and said it was impossible and that a dingo could not lift a 9 week old infant, when only 3 weeks earlier a dingo had snatched a 3 year old child in the same area - luckily in that case, the parents saw it happen and retrieved their child from the dingo. Lindy was convicted of murder based on her behavior and weak forensic evidence that supposedly proved that she slit Azaria's throat in the car and packed her in a large camera case. This despite all the witnesses at the camp site who supported Lindy's dingo story and an aborigine couple who tracked the dingo that night and found places where it had laid the baby down in the sand. Then a few years later her baby's blood-stained clothes were found in a area that was full of dingo lairs. I think that we can't judge Casey based on her behavior in court. She spends 23 hours a day alone in her cell. Is it any wonder that she is happy to be out of there even if it's just in court? Again, we have seen that Casey wanted to talk to police but Baez restrained her from doing so. We don't know why and cannot judge her based on this.

Sorry for using red, didn't want to confuse my reply to your reply. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Clearly KC is unable to follow directions. Her parents, school, friends and LE. She does exactly what she wants to in any given moment or situation. If she can't dazzle them with brillance, she will dazzle them with BS. As my husband use to say about people like her. Thankfully they didn't murder anyone. My point was and is that. Besides, by all of KC's so called friends or associates, she was a very likable gal, just not the brightest bulb in the lamp. They all agree that something wasn't right with stories KC would tell, but at that point in time, no one knew the extent of the lies she was telling.

Exactly what I think .... CA is a loose cannon all around with GA. They all know what happened when it happened and who was the main person responsible for Caylee's murder as well as the clean up.

I don't remember the exact phrase CA told KC during the early arrest but it was something to the effect of ..... don't worry they haven't found anything ....... does anyone else remember this?

Casey said "Don't worry, I haven't said anything."

I imagine that Casey's parents told her not to talk to police without a lawyer present and that is what she was referring to.

Nope, don't agree with your analyze on her saying "don't worry, I haven't said anything". But I was asking what CA said in court, not KC. But thanks anyway.

 

[USARDOG]

Sorry, don't find where the FBI tells GA that they have photo's of KC's that are i think you said, worse than . Perhaps they were actually commenting on KC's lack of artistic talent in her photographs?

 

[countzero]

Sorry, don't find where the FBI tells GA that they have photo's of KC's that are i think you said, worse than .

Oh I remember viewing it but when ??? Both LE and the FBI were interviewing GA. We need Cliff notes to follow this now in the timeline folder.

Found it: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75396&highlight=nude+photos

scroll down to find posts regarding this interview w/GA. Also there are links to the videos within this thread. hth

 

[Brini]

Maybe you're right re bolded section: Annie D. depo reveals that, after release from first incarceration, KC told her that she was being told what to say (about Zani, etc. etc.)
by the one(s) who took Caylee.

I can't entertain the last two statements as way too callous for me to even consider at this point. Curious, since I can consider the notion of filicide.

Well, filicide happens all the time, unfortunately. (sigh!) :-(

 

[Brini]

Except this: Casey was arrested on July 16 and from that point forward had an attorney who has told her NOT to talk to police or anyone about her case. We have seen Casey, on the day she was arrested for murder tell the police that she has wanted to talk with them for so long but with her attorney present. The police called Baez who came down to the station. Baez took Casey into another room and a few minutes later told police they would not be talking to them that day. So clearly, Casey is being restrained from talking to police by her attorney. Why this is, we don't know. But that is not an indication of guilt or innocence.

The client is advised, not constrained or restrained, by the attorney. She does not have to continue to retain the attorney, not is she bound by his advisement.

If she wanted to talk to LE, she is free to do so, with or without counsel.

However, in MOST cases, it's in the best interest of the client not to talk to anyone w/o counsel present.

Th two, or so, times KC spoke to LE, w/o counsel, she lied and took them on wild goose chases to false addresses and her non-existant office.

That does not smack of a wish to cooperate with LE.

 

[Brini]

. Oh Princess... yours is a unique prospective. KC has had the opportunity to talk to police from day one, her father begged her to talk to them, but instead she made up a cockenbull story about "Powerful forces," and the police couldn't be trusted... In stead of being honest and trying to help them recover her daughter, she chose to do nothing but lie, she lied about her job, lied about her daughter, lied about the nanny. The only person who can keep up with her lies is her mother CA, these two are the biggest, but worst liars I have ever seen in all my years

KC also expressed a wish to cooperate with the FBI (because she couldn't trust OCSD). Then, as soon as they showed up, she backed out.

 

[Brini]

KC tells different people different stories, she tells one she has known the nanny for 4 years, another she has known the nanny for 6 years and they are very close. Yet she doesn't have one single picture of this 10, who she claims she provides 50% of this person's income, the other 50% coming from her friend Jeff who's children this nanny also watches... Only Jeff doesn't have any children... No, KC has had every opportunity to tell what she knows, but she chooses to lie in stead.

On the other hand, CA has inadvertently given the State so much evidence by running her mouth, maybe the State should give her some kind of award!