The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[akashana]

Multiple flat tires within a month - one one night and two another night after she left a nightclub.

That coud be attributed to bad driving due to drinking -bumping curbs on turns, or a badly misaligned car that rubs the tires. I once put 9 tires in a year on a car before I spent $1,000 to have the frame unbent.

Casey told one of her friends that she thought someone was tampering with her car.

Casey told many, many stories with very little veracity for little or no reason. That could have only b een to up the drama factor in her life, IMHO.

The gas gauge possibly not working - it needs to be tested to see if this is true or not. Stalkers have been known to siphon gas from their victim's cars in order to put them in a situation where they need to be rescued or to control their movements.

IIRC, LE did test the gauge and found it to be in working order.

The big emotional incident at the "Anything but Clothes" party in May where Casey disappeared for an hour and had been crying - she told others that she had a miscarriage with a guy at the party - but she lies so much, why would we believe she told the truth about the cause of her being so terribly upset that night? What if she was threatened by someone there?

If she truly were threatened, why didn't it put a crimp in her partying style? She continued livin' la vida loca well past May, as countless photos have established. None of her behavors or actions are indicative of somebody who felt under duress or threats of any kind.

Casey desperately gloming onto any male - moving in with TL - could she have been hiding from someone? She seemed to be splitting off with her original core group of friends and moving into a new circle - her old circle didn't even know where Casey was living.

I tend to think that is just an aspect of her personality, she being one of those women who adopts every cadence and nuance of her new lover's life in a desperate attempt to fit in somewhere.

Being nervous about her or Annie sitting near the window in the house when Annie visited her.

KC knew how the tide of public opinion had turned totally against her and probably feared that one or more of the kooky protesters were capable of popping a cap in her head if she sat too close to a window. But that's a threat directly related to her actions following the alleged kidnapping, not from some kidnapper or henchman.

The defense can also use the fact that Casey didn't flee when she had multiple opportunities to do so as an indication that she really was trying to get Caylee back from someone.

Where could she go? She had no money, her car was towed, mama Cindy was hot on her heels to produce her child. She had no options.

See, the thing is, the evidence CAN be spun in multiple directions, not just the direction that the Prosecution has taken it.

As to the identity of the guy - it could be anyone - the defense is not required to identify him or prove that he did anything. The job of the defense is to force the prosecution to prove their case. Honestly, with the stuff that has been released so far, I'm not convinced they have enough to win a conviction. I hope they have more and stronger evidence. Hopefully they do. But we won't know until the trial.

All evidence I have seen points to KC. But I welcome the disclosure of anything germane to the case that would exonerate her if she truly is innocent. I just don't believe it exists.

 

[MAMABEAR]

OK ya'll forced me to go look and here it is. GA's FBI video. Was in the first one. Thank Goodness:
http://www.wftv.com/video/18032897/index.html
Starts at about 747 marker
About nasty pics

 

[Balthazar]

So I gather they have yet to be seen. Don't think the parking lot pic would qualify as being sooooo bad.

Correct, they have not been revealed.

 

[Balthazar]

Evidence of, to begin with, stalking? Identity of the guy?

Brini, I appreciate the thought you put into refuting my points of evidence that point to stalking - but I think you may miss my point. What I'm trying to show is how the defense may use various points of evidence for a SODDI defense. We could debate the points of evidence endlessly, but without all the facts and evidence at our disposal, we're not going to get anywhere. The same set of facts can be used in multiple ways to draw different conclusions. That's the business of defense lawyers - to debate facts persuasively to cause juries to consider different possibilities than what the prosecution has presented.

 

[countzero]

Brini, I appreciate the thought you put into refuting my points of evidence that point to stalking - but I think you may miss my point. What I'm trying to show is how the defense may use various points of evidence for a SODDI defense. We could debate the points of evidence endlessly, but without all the facts and evidence at our disposal, we're not going to get anywhere. The same set of facts can be used in multiple ways to draw different conclusions. That's the business of defense lawyers - to debate facts persuasively to cause juries to consider different possibilities than what the prosecution has presented.

JB can spout all the SODDI facts he and his team want, but without solid, verifiable proof of evidence, the SA will shoot everything down as well as the jury just not believing it. I don't like comparing murder but somehow I feel society views the murder of two drug dealers differently then a mother accused of murdering her child or a pedophile murdering a child. Two drug dealers killed by actions they were involved in by choice is on so many levels different than an adult murdering an innocent toddler or child. Especially when the accused is a parent.

Debating facts is one thing which LKB is good at - sometimes. But she is debating physical facts not theories. And I expect she will give the state a run for their money if she stays on the team.

Let JB bring it on, all the nefarious characters involved in bringing KC down to the level of murder or framing her for Caylee's murder. From where I am sitting and from reading the evidence previously released, I just don't see how JB and team can "show various points of evidence" and debate them.

Let me just add this thought for ya to ponder. Do you envision this nefarious individual or individuals coming to testify they were involved with Caylee's murder? Just how does JB propose to introduce this person or persons at trial?

I don't mean to argue your points but the overwhelming physical and forensic evidence so far released just doesn't give room for KC to have been involved with a SODDI theory not related to the A family.

 

[songline]

You are very correct that she is following advice of counsel to remain silent (and how she must wish Cindy would also), but back in July she was also adamant that they were searching for a live Caylee. I'm a mother, and I can tell you without reservation that if my not-yet-three-year-old daughter went missing for even a few hours, let alone a whole month, my life would immediately become an open book. No drug I may have done, or sex partner I may have had, or friend or casual acquaintance would have been suppressed. If I thought that I had a single iota of information that would lead to her safe recovery, I would open my life up 100%. If I were selling drugs, they'd have my sources; if I were stealing or a part of some theft ring, I would name names and care not one whit if I faced other charges if it meant that my child could be found alive. No attorney on earth could muzzle me if I thought that I had information to lead to her kidnappers. I think all decent mothers would do the same. Yet we didn't see this kind of disclosure with KC, and I truly believe it was because she was fully aware that Caylee had been beyond help for a very long time. She went into CYA mode and confided in JB who, much as we don't like it, gave her very good advice: say nothing. To me, that's what speaks volumes.

:clap::clap::clap: Good post. :blowkiss:

You have a moral compass. Something this entire family lacks
You have compassion, something they lack too.
Your Values are based on principal....Theirs in not.
I scratched my head one million times, and changed my mind a few times too.
I have no use for her parents they chose the wrong solution.
I still think Casey having been raised in that home should be given a bit more time till the trial,
maybe? just maybe there is far more then we really know. and maybe not.
YAP it does point to her, that is not always the bottom line.

I will not be shocked if she is the only one responsible for Caylees demise,
and I will not be shocked if the story begins to take a different shape either.

 

[songline]

The story on JB has been that when Casey was arrested initially she got his name from another inmate. We don't know if this is true or not. Clearly JB is out to make a name for himself with this very high profile client. Any attorney with this opportunity would be crazy not to take it. This is a career making case, if he can get her off. And I agree, his strategy for Casey may not be 100% in her best interest. But without knowing her story and details of what has been said between them and what her entire legal team has discussed, it is impossible to judge the situation.

I do not believe that counter suing ZG was a good move, I thing this will drag on and drag on with this guy,
I am afraid he is throwing the trial and we may have to do a retrial YES I am afraid of that.
The longer it takes, the harder it will get. :furious:

 

[MarleneM]

I wonder if he has an alibi for June 16th, 2008?

It's in the trunk of KC's car.

 

[songline]

casey said "don't worry, i haven't said anything."

i imagine that casey's parents told her not to talk to police without a lawyer present and that is what she was referring to.

ditto!!!!!

 

[songline]

IF some political bigwig is in a compromising picture it seems to me it would be easier (and less attention-getting) to kill Casey (permanently shutting her up) than her 2-yr-old child (who can barely talk).

BUT, if an evil rich person or group killed Caylee and is paying for Casey's defense, that can't be used by Baez and team. Evil baby-killers wouldn't pay millions to throw themselves under the bus.

The state is asking for the death penalty. It doesn't look like the powers in charge are covering Casey's fanny.

Casey could be executed,what threat is worse? Does Casey value George's and Cindy's lives more than her own?

The other reason I don't think Casey was involved with nefarious bigwigs is because almost every minute of her time over the summer of '08 can be accounted for. Casey spent all of her time either sitting at her parent's house or with associates who are not bigwigs (just ordinary twenty somethings).

WHERE is the money coming from and why? just asking:waitasec:

 

[songline]

On the day Caylee's remains were found, a young man who lives in the neighborhood says that early last summer (June/July) there WAS an odor, and police were called. Someone found a dead animal off the street into the foliage and it was decided that this was the source of the odor. The odor lingered and then dissipated, and then the rain came. Anyone who mentioned the odor dismissed it once they learned a dead animal had been found off the street.

The defense is going to try to claim that someone placed Caylee's remains there after Casey was in jail. I suspect the young man and other neighbors who smelled the odor will be witnesses at the trial, along with the forensic etomologists, to dispute that claim.

Between that odor call and the meter man, they seemed to have really messed up.
:waitasec: WHY any one getting paid off :waitasec:

 

[songline]

This is just from memory, but as I recall, the conversation goes something like this:

The FBI agent tells George that there are over 1200 indiscreet photos of Casey on the computer that are "very bad. "

George says something like "I know she has done a lot of bad things, but I didn't know she did those bad things."

The agent then says something to the effect that since those photos are on the computer hard disk, most likely other people have them and they will surface somewhere on the internet and the FBI couldn't do anything to stop it.

George says something to the effect of "This will kill my wife."

You did provide a link Princes Rose and it is on tape #1
I do not understand why people assume we make this stuff up :doh: Why would we ?
http://www.wftv.com/video/18032897/index.html

 

[songline]

<SNIP> I appreciate the thought you put into refuting my points of evidence that point to stalking - but I think you may miss my point. What I'm trying to show is how the defense may use various points of evidence for a SODDI defense. We could debate the points of evidence endlessly, but without all the facts and evidence at our disposal, we're not going to get anywhere. The same set of facts can be used in multiple ways to draw different conclusions. That's the business of defense lawyers - to debate facts persuasively to cause juries to consider different possibilities than what the prosecution has presented.

Once more I agree with you; But I am at a point where I can see that often times some just move the content around to make someone wrong so they can be right. And the way I see that is "Let Them"
I have said only one million times or one million ways that until we have all the evidence, and I hope we will not get it all evidence till the trial, because LE should keep some things close to their vest.
We should look at every possibility which includes Casey being Guilty but does not exclude her yet
of not having done the deed.
Inevitably I come back to a reply at times that will say something to the effect that
"she is guilty end of story" "or "where is the proff" lets see how the content of this post will get transposed. hmmmmmm.
I am here for justice for Caylee...I am not here to dig my head in the sand. Whatever it takes,
I am willing to look at it. I do not need to be right, and I do not need to make nice, nice.....

 

[MarleneM]

Yes, you right. She does not have to talk.

Yes, and I would add to PrincessRose that KC doesn't have to talk now, but it was her responsibility to talk the day she claims Caylee went "missing".

And nothing I have read in any SODDI theory has reasonably explained how it could be understandable that any mother wouldn't be hysterical and crippled with fear the instant they discover their baby isn't where they left them. But we've got video placing KC arm-in-arm with TL at Blockbuster casually browsing DVDs to watch the evening of June 15th - when KC told police she was sitting on the steps of Sawgrass waiting for ZG to show up with Caylee.

Nothing I have read thus far can reasonably explain to me how KC wouldn't have been vomiting with fear in TL's car on June 15th instead of curling up with her beau, focusing on a storyline, digesting a meal and coming off as completely normal to those around her. All the while nonchalantly brushing off questions about Caylee and actually bragging to friends (while her daughter is supposedly "missing") about how wonderful her highly-paid nanny is.

As a mother, you couldn't even talk about your child if they were missing without breaking down and freaking out. Yet by all accounts to those closest to her, and recorded emails, texts and IM's - KC could not only do it, she could do it with a smile.

KC's initial refusal to appear in court when details about her daughter could be discussed also tells me that she is a coward who is afraid to face her consequences. Nothing would keep an innocent mother out of a single court session regarding the case of her missing/murdered children. This is something the jurors will never hear about her, but it answers questions for me.

Also, imo we can't blame JB for KC's silence. Her all-important letter to her parents tattling to the public that they intended to cremate Caylee against her wishes is proof that KC understands she is the one in charge of her hired attorney. If she wanted to talk she'd have done it long ago. To use JB as a reason for why she won't talk imo is a convenient excuse. Her daughter is dead. There's no excuse not to tell the truth how it happened. None.

 

[Brini]

ditto!!!!!

Pretty sure you'uns are right!

 

[songline]

All evidence I have seen points to KC. But I wecome the disclosure of anything germane to the case that would exonerate her if she truly is innocent. I just don' believe it exists.

That is the way to think IMHO :blowkiss: :blowkiss:
leaning in one direction and open to the possibilities THANK YOU :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

 

[songline]

Yes, and I would add to PrincessRose that KC doesn't have to talk now, but it was her responsibility to talk the day she claims Caylee went "missing". Correct

And nothing I have read in any SODDI theory has reasonably explained how it could be understandable that any mother wouldn't be hysterical and crippled with fear the instant they discover their baby isn't where they left them. But we've got video placing KC arm-in-arm with TL at Blockbuster shopping for casually browsing DVDs to watch the evening of June 15th - when KC told police she was sitting on the steps of Sawgrass waiting for ZG to show up with Caylee.
That is very messed up :crazy:

Nothing I have read thus far can reasonably explain to me how KC wouldn't have been vomiting with fear in TL's car on June 15th instead of curling up with her beau, focusing on a storyline, digesting a meal and coming off as completely normal to those around her. All the while nonchalantly brushing off questions about Caylee and actually bragging to friends (while her daughter is supposedly "missing") about how wonderful her highly-paid nanny is.
That is mind buggeling too. AND what if she really gave her to someone she did thing would bring her back - just asking?

As a mother, you couldn't even talk about your child if they were missing without breakdown and freaking out. Yet by all accounts to those closest to her, and recorded emails, texts and IM's - KC could not only do it, she could do it with a smile. Correct again when I am with my grand kids the rule is if I can not see you you cant not go there, they must be within my eye range.

KC's initial refusal to appear in court when details about her daughter could be discussed also tells me that she is a coward who is afraid to face her consequences. Nothing would keep an innocent mother out of a single court session regarding the case of her missing/murdered children. This is something the jurors will never hear about her, but it answers questions for me.
She does not function the way a Normal person does, Not IMO and I do understand that for the sake of the case there are rules and as long as she knows right from wrong it is not an insanity pleas. But normal she is NOT

Also, imo we can't blame JB for KC's silence. Her all-important letter to her parents tattling to the public that they intended to cremate Caylee against her wishes is proof that KC understands she is the one in charge of her hired attorney. If she wanted to talk she'd have done it long ago. To use JB as a reason for why she won't talk imo is a convenient excuse. Her daughter is dead. There's no excuse not to tell the truth how it happened. None.

She is a 22 year old with more rebel then brains; I remember being 22 it was only 40 years ago. :crazy:

 

[USARDOG]

Multiple flat tires within a month - one one night and two another night after she left a nightclub. Casey told one of her friends that she thought someone was tampering with her car.

Don't recall an testimony about multiple flat tires, but imagine her tires were just worn out, and she hadn't gotten around to stealing enough money to buy a new set yet. The running out of gas could also have been a dodge because she wanted the car stolen, it contained evidence that would convict her of murder.

The gas gauge possibly not working - it needs to be tested to see if this is true or not. Stalkers have been known to siphon gas from their victim's cars in order to put them in a situation where they need to be rescued or to control their movements.

Unless they were able to break into her car and disable the gas gauge, but even then would show zero gas, in which case, she would go to a filling station and gas up... Not a reasonable plot for a stalker.

The big emotional incident at the "Anything but Clothes" party in May where Casey disappeared for an hour and had been crying - she told others that she had a miscarriage with a guy at the party - but she lies so much, why would we believe she told the truth about the cause of her being so terribly upset that night? What if she was threatened by someone there?

So, this stalker followed her into a party where all her friends were amased, all those young men who were drunk and would relish an opportunity to pound someone stalking their friend... Boy, this is a reach.

Casey desperately gloming onto any male - moving in with TL - could she have been hiding from someone? She seemed to be splitting off with her original core group of friends and moving into a new circle - her old circle didn't even know where Casey was living.

KC had been "gloming" on to men as long as we have been able to follow her life. One man after another, and she especially liked them in uniform. She made no indication of hiding. In fact had a ball picking out mutilation flicks with her new boyfriend. Perhaps she was, "hiding in plain site?"

Being nervous about her or Annie sitting near the window in the house when Annie visited her.

KC is a liar, looking for an alibi... She is trying to establish an alibi... and a poor one at that.

The defense can also use the fact that Casey didn't flee when she had multiple opportunities to do so as an indication that she really was trying to get Caylee back from someone.

KC was followed every where she went. She is going to flee where? In what? With who?

See, the thing is, the evidence CAN be spun in multiple directions, not just the direction that the Prosecution has taken it.

I see no spinning, only things that start with, "imagine," I don't think the jury will be in an "imagine" mood.

As to the identity of the guy - it could be anyone - the defense is not required to identify him or prove that he did anything. The job of the defense is to force the prosecution to prove their case. Honestly, with the stuff that has been released so far, I'm not convinced they have enough to win a conviction. I hope they have more and stronger evidence. Hopefully they do. But we won't know until the trial.

And this stalker communicated with her how? Must have been smoke signals because all of her communications have been monitored, analyzed, and accounted for. Nope, no stalker here, and I hope the defense can do better or our KC is going to be on death row in just a couple of months.

 

[USARDOG]

You see, the problem is, KC is a very poor liar, and to make matters worse, she is terrible at hatching a plot because she can't think out past 10 minutes, and she is lazy to boot. This makes for a very thin alibi, and just on what we know, I believe a jury would have no trouble sending her up the river. However, this is a death penalty case, and I believe the state will pull out all the stops, and provide everything a jury needs to put poor KC on death row. I'm thinking she will have to face her maker and Caylee sooner rather than later.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I expressed interest early on in this thread that I'd love to see an SODDI thread survive for a while - and be respectful, so kudos! I think you've all set a new WS record for a KC SODDI thread survival rate.

Great thread. Hope it survives this post.

:wink: