The Texts Messages: Warning! Graphic SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

[ami]

Kaine's affidavit (at paragraph 15) makes it pretty clear that Terri wasn't served with the restraining order until later that evening, after the events at the gym took place. So the term "abduction" is not being used in the legal sense of the word. Until the judge signed the RO, Terri had every right to take custody of the baby and until she knew of the RO's existence, it's kind of hard to fault her for searching for her baby anywhere Kaine might logically take her.

Ironically, it was Kaine who may have committed a crime under Oregon law, not Terri.

So if you're in fear that your spouse will murder you and/or your child, it's illegal to take the child out of the house until an RO is in place?

 

[Trt]

Rn, it is very interesting that you mentioned Houze's behavior as a sign of confidence, because we've heard next to nothing from him. I've seen others mention that he is way more vocal if he believes his client to be innocent. I have to say that after following Caylee's case, it is refreshing to have a lawyer that says the bare minimum
and choose to act where it's appropriate(court of law). Jmo

 

[desquire]

Respectfully snipped.

That would be feasible to me, except LE allegedly told Kaine Teri had done this many months previously, along with an attempted murder for hire plot, with a different man BEFORE Teri started this up with MC.

All we have on that point is Kaine's vague retelling of a vague comment, so it's hard to know what, if anything, really happened with the landscaper. But in throwing out my alternative "spin," I was even assuming it was exactly like what we saw with Cook; maybe that's how she always approached and won her men. If you take the narrative I tried to paint, throw in the fact that she was involved in a loveless marriage for a long time, that in the past she had gotten positive results from this type of overture, to me that makes the narrative even more plausible: in times of crisis, desperate people don't always think things through, they just fall back on what's worked for them in the past.

 

[Trt]

My understanding is that for the defense to try a case in the court of public opinion is never a good idea so... Yes.

While I completely agree with the premise of your post, the only option available to Houze and Bunch if Terri's not responsible for those texts is not to try the case in the court of public opinion. They have many options, including working with LE to make sure that the person responsible for the felony is charged and brought to justice. Jmo

 

[Charlie09]

I'm not so sure. This is what has kept me from falling off the fence with every new bombshell.

I've gone back and compared Houze's statements to other cases, particularly those where the client's guilt was irrefutable.

Very different Houze. He believes Terri has been wronged. How, I obviously have no idea. That doesn't necessarily mean she's innocent, but he is angry.

Considering my opinion of Houze is that he's a self-serving egotistical horse's patooty.... that gives me considerable pause in weighing TH's guilt.

As always, I will be interested to see this go to trial. I want to see what Houze thinks he knows that we don't, and why he's so damned confident.

Have I missed a statement by Houze? (I haven't been following closely this week) Why do you say he's confident?

 

[WmHersey]

I'm having flashbacks to my adolescents when my mom sternly warned me never to put anything into writing that I didn't want the world to see. Wow!

What a wise and wonderful woman my mother is!

You must have had the same mother. I always reread and edit everything I write. My mom said never put anything in writing you didn't want used in a court of law. Very sage advise.

 

[grandmaj]

163.245 Custodial interference in the second degree.
A person commits the crime of custodial interference in the second degree if, knowing or having reason to know that the person has no legal right to do so, the person takes, entices or keeps another person from the other person’s lawful custodian or in violation of a valid joint custody order with intent to hold the other person permanently or for a protracted period.

Without first obtaining a RO that gave him sole custody, Kaine had no right to take the baby from Terri with the intent to keep her from Terri for a protracted period. The issue would be whethertwo days could be deemed a "protracted period" and, if not, what his intent was if a RO had not been granted.

On the night that Kaine took the baby and left Terri called Law Enforcement.

She wrote one email to Kaine before she called law enforcement. It said...

OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don't want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don't hear from you in an hour I will call 911.


After she wrote the above email, she called 911 and was directed to the business line.

She then wrote this email to a friend.

Guess what? Since we are married we have joint custody and he can do that. Gee, too bad I didn't know that.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24581546/detail.html

It has not been alleged by anyone that Kaine Horman violated the law by securing the safety of Baby K.

Certainly it would have been a great reason to contest the RO. That didn't happen.

 

[rnmif]

While I completely agree with the premise of your post, the only option available to Houze and Bunch if Terri's not responsible for those texts is not to try the case in the court of public opinion. They have many options, including working with LE to make sure that the person responsible for the felony is charged and brought to justice. Jmo

Option for what? The post I replied to was asking why Houze and/or Bunch let the texts stand unchallenged. I am unclear how countering THs public image would further the search for Kyron.

On that note, TH did make an effort (how sincere is at this point unknown) to work with LE. If I were Houze, I would make it painfully clear to TH (if she were in fact innocent) that continuing to allow LE to chase her down the wrong rabbit hole is putting her freedom, and Kyron's safety, at risk.

Whether or not she's innocent, who knows. I look at this case and say, yeah, on the surface, with some pretty flimsy circumstantial evidence, it looks bad.

We only have one incomplete, biased side of the story. Until we know more, and a different side, we can't hope to find the truth.

That, IMO, is the real tragedy of this case. This little boy should be home by now, but a whole string of wrong turns has taken us further from meeting that goal.

If only we were omniscient.

 

[Trt]

Option for what? The post I replied to was asking why Houze and/or Bunch let the texts stand unchallenged. I am unclear how countering THs public image would further the search for Kyron.

snipped respectfully...

Right, the OP asked why they are left out there unchallenged(as in Kaine filed an affadavit using the texts, where is the response to that affadavit stating that those texts are untrue and that they have information to prove it and will be providing that at the hearing...it would certainly make a more convincing case for the expedited hearing as well). My statement was to point out that fighting the texts in the court of public opinion is not the only option available to Terri and her lawyers, if, in fact, the texts were not made by Terri. That would be the last option, IMO. The first option would be to see to it that the person responsible for falsifying digital data(felony) is prosecuted. JMO

 

[pufnstuf]

What some people seem to be missing is that evidently Terri's request for the daycare worker to call her when the baby was left in day care was alarming enough to the gym management that they decided to report it to LE.

Terri developed this plan after she was told that Kaine has the right to leave the house with the baby. Instead of finding a way to handle it like normal people do (attending the RO hearing, fighting for shared custody), she attempts to handle her problem in an extralegal way.

What would she have done had she taken K from the daycare? Go back to Sheltered Nook Road and barricaded herself inside, with Dede guarding the door with a fire extinguisher? Refused to hand over the baby when the RO was served that night? Hit the road and run away with the baby? Then what? What exactly would she have done? How is all of this in the best interest of the baby?

You can argue law all day long--so far, I've seen no Oregon code posted in this thread that directly deals with this situation...which is why a judge interprets statute to apply to complicated situations like this.

But really, statute aside, the gym stunt is just another indication that Terri is a narcissist who thinks only of her needs and "defeating" those around her.

Thankfully, Kaine's manner of handling this thing was in accordance with the law, was in the best interest of the baby, and resulted in nothing that damaged the baby. The baby was kept from the controversy and conflict that surely would have erupted had myopic Terri taken her from the daycare...god only knows how that would have ended.

 

[desquire]

On the night that Kaine took the baby and left Terri called Law Enforcement.

She wrote one email to Kaine before she called law enforcement. It said...

OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don't want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don't hear from you in an hour I will call 911.


After she wrote the above email, she called 911 and was directed to the business line.

She then wrote this email to a friend.

Guess what? Since we are married we have joint custody and he can do that. Gee, too bad I didn't know that.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24581546/detail.html

It has not been alleged by anyone that Kaine Horman violated the law by securing the safety of Baby K.

Certainly it would have been a great reason to contest the RO. That didn't happen.

Like I said, he "may have committed a crime" depending upon his intent. The RO made that whole question moot. I'm not suggesting the DA could/should charge Kaine with custodial interference - it would be almost as silly as charging Terri with the abduction of a child she has custodial right to.

 

[nursebeeme]

On the night that Kaine took the baby and left Terri called Law Enforcement.

She wrote one email to Kaine before she called law enforcement. It said...

OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don't want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don't hear from you in an hour I will call 911.


After she wrote the above email, she called 911 and was directed to the business line.

She then wrote this email to a friend.

Guess what? Since we are married we have joint custody and he can do that. Gee, too bad I didn't know that.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24581546/detail.html

It has not been alleged by anyone that Kaine Horman violated the law by securing the safety of Baby K.

Certainly it would have been a great reason to contest the RO. That didn't happen.

grandma, we need to add in there that Kaine also states he texted Terri around the time he left telling her he knew what she had been doing....

interesting in context to what her email was... but she didn't text him back? sounds like she knew he wouldn't get the email.........

moo

 

[grandmaj]

I'm trying to leave a little room here for speculation but, the facts as we know them or that were printed in MSM in no way reflect that Kaine did anything other than what he was advised to do. There has never been anything that stated that he "May have Committed any Crime." It is also bordering on starting a rumor and bashing the victim.

So let's please get back to the topic.

The same thing with speculation that the phone messages were sent by anyone but Terri.

I've given you some wiggle room. But without something to back up this speculation we need to move back to the topic here.

If anyone can provide a MSM link or a court filing that the text messages were somehow fraudulated I will gladly reverse my thinking. What we know at the present time, is that the texts came from M. Cook's phone and were provided to Atty. Rackner by Investigators.

Thanks.

 

[rnmif]

Rn, it is very interesting that you mentioned Houze's behavior as a sign of confidence, because we've heard next to nothing from him. I've seen others mention that he is way more vocal if he believes his client to be innocent. I have to say that after following Caylee's case, it is refreshing to have a lawyer that says the bare minimum
and choose to act where it's appropriate(court of law). Jmo

The only reason to wear a poker face is if you're playing a hand.

 

[gwenabob]

The only reason to wear a poker face is if you're playing a hand.

Or if you've got nothing.

 

[eyes4crime]

To the mods: I would like some clarification regarding professional posters.

I'll take the lawyers as an example. Right now there are 3 excellent lawyers giving their professional opinions on the 'verified lawyer's thread'. Each lawyer comes from a different background and therefore, give a different slant on a question. We are lucky indeed to have such varied insight provided to us.

If the professional lawyers venture to the threads to give an opinion is it to be assumed it's a professional opinion or can professional posters give their opinion in general. Are professional posters ALWAYS professional posters? TIA

 

[rnmif]

I'm trying to leave a little room here for speculation but, the facts as we know them or that were printed in MSM in no way reflect that Kaine did anything other than what he was advised to do. There has never been anything that stated that he "May have Committed any Crime." It is also bordering on starting a rumor and bashing the victim.

So let's please get back to the topic.

The same thing with speculation that the phone messages were sent by anyone but Terri.

I've given you some wiggle room. But without something to back up this speculation we need to move back to the topic here.

If anyone can provide a MSM link or a court filing that the text messages were somehow fraudulated I will gladly reverse my thinking. What we know at the present time, is that the texts came from M. Cook's phone and were provided to Atty. Rackner by Investigators.

Thanks.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[gwenabob]

St. Mary:

Are you sure you did not go to law school? I think the Multnomah County DA ought to consider hiring you as a consultant for this case. You could write the closing arguments all by yourself!

 

[stmarysmead]

All we have on that point is Kaine's vague retelling of a vague comment, so it's hard to know what, if anything, really happened with the landscaper. But in throwing out my alternative "spin," I was even assuming it was exactly like what we saw with Cook; maybe that's how she always approached and won her men. If you take the narrative I tried to paint, throw in the fact that she was involved in a loveless marriage for a long time, that in the past she had gotten positive results from this type of overture, to me that makes the narrative even more plausible: in times of crisis, desperate people don't always think things through, they just fall back on what's worked for them in the past.

That "vague comment" that Terri had tried to contract a Murder for Hire originated with LE...the professionals tasked with investigating this case. They conveyed that vague comment and their suspicions that Terri also was responsible for Kyron's disappearance to Kaine.

On the basis of that "vague comment" Kaine left his wife of many years and took their child.

On the basis of that "vague comment", a judge issued a restraining order.

On the basis of that "vague comment", Terri's high priced and well funded (by a mysterious source) legal team made no rebuttal, and essentially allowed custody of Terri's baby to be handed without contest to Kaine.

To this day, Terri has never confronted the accusation in that "vague comment" because to do so, her attorneys say, she would "incriminate herself."

I find it stunning that a woman,represented by some of the finest legal minds in her state...and generously funded by someone else's deep pockets...would allow a "vague comment" to keep her from the Baby Girl she supposedly adores.

 

[Tricia]

To the mods: I would like some clarification regarding professional posters.

I'll take the lawyers as an example. Right now there are 3 excellent lawyers giving their professional opinions on the 'verified lawyer's thread'. Each lawyer comes from a different background and therefore, give a different slant on a question. We are lucky indeed to have such varied insight provided to us.

If the professional lawyers venture to the threads to give an opinion is it to be assumed it's a professional opinion or can professional posters give their opinion in general. Are professional posters ALWAYS professional posters? TIA

That is an ecellent question. Absolutely professional posters can give their opinions on all the cases we follow. Their opinions are based I am sure on their experience with life just like ours.

Just because someone is a professional does not mean they can't have their own opinion. The only difference is if they post about certain areas of the law while stating that opinion then we know they know what they are talking about.