The Texts Messages: Warning! Graphic SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

[JBean]

The fact that we have little or no facts in this case, is what leads to such enormous volumes of speculation. IDK, but I think we should just take every post out this forum that "bashes" anyone, and let's see what we have left. Sadly, there won't be much, I think. There is such wide vile speculation spewing on many forums across the internet toward TH & others, I just wish LE would just arrest her and get on with it! Or, could come forward and say something to put an end to it all, like, we no longer feel Terri is a suspect. But, of course they can't do that, because they never have even said she was suspect.

Whatever LE has, we know it's not enough to arrest and convict Terri, even the GJ says so by not returning a true bill. I hope the task force is making some kind of progress, cuz all we're hearing from them is more crickets. Though I have to say, maybe LE's silence is better than the previous "riddles".

I wish we knew more, and most of all I wish we had an idea of where Kyron is, it's like he vanished into thin air.

well I personally think the mods in here do a great job of keeping the "bashing" to a minimum. I think discussing the behavior of the target of the investigation in a negative light based on her behavior can be construed as bashing so I truly understand what you mean.But,name calling is not allowed and posts are removed. Over the top or violent posts are dealt with and the parents of Kyron are not allowed to be bashed. Discussion in a constructive manner is encouraged and bashing is discouraged. So, I am not sure what else can be done.

I urge you to peruse the rest of Webleuths and look at how long many have waited for the arrest of perpetrators or suspected perpetrators. off the top of my head, i can think of Drew Peterson,Jason Young and Scott Peterson.

Except in states that have some sort of Sunshine Laws, we just are not going to know as much as LE knows until trial and that is just the way it is. Personally, I think FL releases too much info and I think the integrity of a case is paramount and is far more important than all of us knowing what LE knows.

So theorizing is all we can do and again, the mods do the very best they can to steer that speculation to that which is based on fact or widely reported information.

I also challenge your supposition that there wouldn't be much left here if "bashing" were removed. Visit the time line and media forums and read there. Read document threads, press conference reports,motion discussion,family law explained,cell phone ping information,donation information,search information and more. There is excellent expert opinion peppered throughout the forum.

This is a place to come together and discuss what is reported and see what sense we can make of it.

I 100% concur that I wish we had an idea where Kyron is. Thanks for your input Billylee.

 

[DreamyEye]

The fact that we have little or no facts in this case, is what leads to such enormous volumes of speculation. IDK, but I think we should just take every post out this forum that "bashes" anyone, and let's see what we have left. Sadly, there won't be much, I think. There is such wide vile speculation spewing on many forums across the internet toward TH & others, I just wish LE would just arrest her and get on with it! Or, could come forward and say something to put an end to it all, like, we no longer feel Terri is a suspect. But, of course they can't do that, because they never have even said she was suspect.

Whatever LE has, we know it's not enough to arrest and convict Terri, even the GJ says so by not returning a true bill. I hope the task force is making some kind of progress, cuz all we're hearing from them is more crickets. Though I have to say, maybe LE's silence is better than the previous "riddles".

I wish we knew more, and most of all I wish we had an idea of where Kyron is, it's like he vanished into thin air.

I was on the fence about TH until the sexting stuff came out. On some days I thought she was probably responsible for Kyron's disappearance ... on other days I thought it more likely that a pedophile took him. Counting heavily against TH since I first heard about it, though, was the MFH. Now we've seen a series of weird behaviors since Kaine left her and the RO was granted. Now this mess with the sexting. When does it cease to be "bashing" and become a pretty strong circumstantial case? I don't think people are "bashing" TH. I think that as the pile of negative news about her continues to pile up, it becomes more like "if it walks like a duck."

Just my opinion.

But I couldn't agree with you more that Kyron needs to be found.

 

[PaulaF513]

While the sexting imho is nothing other than pure unadulterated sleaze, it doesn't say a thing about TH's culpability in Kyron's disappearance. It's a nasty distraction. We can surmise all we want, but we really don't know how nor why it came about...whether MC was a plant by LE or KH to obtain information.All it revealed, if it actually is as it has been made public, is that TH is prone to presenting a sexually desirable, albeit promiscuous image of herself.

How does that help find Kyron or learn what befell the child?

A lot of our opinions about her actually come from her own mouth. Odd, considering that I have never heard her speak. The reason she failed the LDTs is, imo, a significant clue in this case. I would assume that she was asked if she harmed Kyron...if she knew what happened to him...if she killed him....if she knew where he was. If TH was untruthful or evasive to any of those questions, I think LE would have not said that she was cooperating with them. The implication that I got from what LE said about her is that she cooperated in Kyron's case but was uncooperative in other areas. LE defines this as her knowledge of something to do with Kyron. Maybe it isn't.

After 5 months and not a trace of this missing child, perhaps it's time for everyone connected to this case to think outside the neatly packaged box that is the evil stepmother. It's time to find this little boy.

 

[ami]

While the sexting imho is nothing other than pure unadulterated sleaze, it doesn't say a thing about TH's culpability in Kyron's disappearance. It's a nasty distraction. We can surmise all we want, but we really don't know how nor why it came about...whether MC was a plant by LE or KH to obtain information.All it revealed, if it actually is as it has been made public, is that TH is prone to presenting a sexually desirable, albeit promiscuous image of herself.

How does that help find Kyron or learn what befell the child?

A lot of our opinions about her actually come from her own mouth. Odd, considering that I have never heard her speak. The reason she failed the LDTs is, imo, a significant clue in this case. I would assume that she was asked if she harmed Kyron...if she knew what happened to him...if she killed him....if she knew where he was. If TH was untruthful or evasive to any of those questions, I think LE would have not said that she was cooperating with them. The implication that I got from what LE said about her is that she cooperated in Kyron's case but was uncooperative in other areas. LE defines this as her knowledge of something to do with Kyron. Maybe it isn't.

After 5 months and not a trace of this missing child, perhaps it's time for everyone connected to this case to think outside the neatly packaged box that is the evil stepmother. It's time to find this little boy.

Is it possible to know for a fact that nothing contained within Terri's text messages have any clue whatsoever to her state of mind, innocence or culpability in the disappearance of her son? I don't think it's possible for us to know that. I think of Scott Peterson's calls with Amber - did he confess to Laci's murder or tell her he killed his wife or where he put the body in those calls? No. But those calls helped to condemn him in court, and I'm grateful that LE believed it was important to record them and share them during his trial. So I'm not ready to discount Terri's texts as irrelevant. They might not be a key piece of evidence, but if LE ever does prosecute her, and if she is involved with Kyron's disappearance and they help lead to justice, I'll be grateful they were saved and shared with LE.

And I also don't think the stepmother's guilt is a neatly packaged box. It's messy, it's complicated, it doesn't makes sense in some lights and makes good sense in others. To me, the "easy answer" would be a local sex offender, as ghastly as that is.

 

[ThoughtFox]

While the sexting imho is nothing other than pure unadulterated sleaze, it doesn't say a thing about TH's culpability in Kyron's disappearance. It's a nasty distraction. We can surmise all we want, but we really don't know how nor why it came about...whether MC was a plant by LE or KH to obtain information.All it revealed, if it actually is as it has been made public, is that TH is prone to presenting a sexually desirable, albeit promiscuous image of herself.

How does that help find Kyron or learn what befell the child?

I look at it this way: How did her sexting help find Kyron?

She had alot more reason to find Kyron than we have, and supposedly alot of affection for him. Where is that affection when she is talking to Michael Cook?

All that it goes to her state of mind, which will be an important part of the case if this ever goes to trial. Any time someone puts stuff in writing it's important. Any time they leave stuff out, it's important.

A lot of our opinions about her actually come from her own mouth. Odd, considering that I have never heard her speak.

Exactly. Exactly. She is staying quiet. At least verbally.

But from a communication standpoint, her written messages are considered "speech" under the law.

And she has released emails to the press detailing the day that Kyron disappeared, and that's part of the record. So we are not basing opinions just on hearsay or lurid gossip, but her own words.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html

She has also let her best friends go on the record too, such as DeDe in People magazine.
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20413527,00.html

And other friends had to go on the record in the Grand Jury and we don't know everything they said, but we know enough to make a judgement if that's our choice.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/multnomah_county_shericomb_thr.html

Some would say that with Terri is under suspicion, she should keep following her attorney's advice and not speak openly about Kyron.

But as I recall from the Elizabeth Smart case, those parents were out there every few days putting themselves emotionally on the line in spite of all the public suspicion. That's what convinced me after a while that they were innocent.

Of course, maybe it's in TH's best interest to stay quiet because when Scott Peterson went on Good Morning America he was cold, smiling, and totally creepy. Perhaps that's the problem with Terri as well. JMOO Maybe she doesn't come across as a loving mother and wife. And the Sexting is just a symptom of that. JMO

The reason she failed the LDTs is, imo, a significant clue in this case. I would assume that she was asked if she harmed Kyron...if she knew what happened to him...if she killed him....if she knew where he was.

If TH was untruthful or evasive to any of those questions, I think LE would have not said that she was cooperating with them. The implication that I got from what LE said about her is that she cooperated in Kyron's case but was uncooperative in other areas. LE defines this as her knowledge of something to do with Kyron. Maybe it isn't.

That's not exactly true. As Kaine just stated again in court papers the other day, Terri was given three lie detector tests. She flunked the first one, walked out of the second one, and flunked a third one.
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

I think police said she was cooperating because she agreed to take the tests, not because she passed some of the questions. It all boils down to whether her story is believable and whether she contradicted herself.

The police gave her the benefit of the doubt for a long time, it seems to me, mainly based on Kaine's belief that TH wouldn't harm Kyron. But then they uncovered the MFH plot and that was a game changer in the way they handled Terri.

It's true that we don't know which questions tripped her up on the LDT or what she was evasive about, but I think it's pretty uncooperative to walk out of lie detector test that was actually meant to "clear" her as a member of the family. That is how lie detector tests are used, since LE wants to clear the family as soon as possible.

I know alot of people hate lie detector tests and they are NOT admissable in court. But the reality is that they are used in every state to narrow the focus of investigations.

After 5 months and not a trace of this missing child, perhaps it's time for everyone connected to this case to think outside the neatly packaged box that is the evil stepmother. It's time to find this little boy.

When another suspect comes along, you betcha we will take a look at that person. So far, we have Terri, DeDe, and their unknown pals.

TH has tried to cast blame on "others unknown" but the evidence and timeline keeps coming back to her.

As JBean wrote, sometimes investigations are going in the right direction but get stalled out waiting for a break in the case. This is not unusual. We don't need to take the focus off of Terri, in my opinion, but just have patience.

 

[Billylee]

well I personally think the mods in here do a great job of keeping the "bashing" to a minimum. I think discussing the behavior of the target of the investigation in a negative light based on her behavior can be construed as bashing so I truly understand what you mean.But,name calling is not allowed and posts are removed. Over the top or violent posts are dealt with and the parents of Kyron are not allowed to be bashed. Discussion in a constructive manner is encouraged and bashing is discouraged. So, I am not sure what else can be done.

I urge you to peruse the rest of Webleuths and look at how long many have waited for the arrest of perpetrators or suspected perpetrators. off the top of my head, i can think of Drew Peterson,Jason Young and Scott Peterson.

Except in states that have some sort of Sunshine Laws, we just are not going to know as much as LE knows until trial and that is just the way it is. Personally, I think FL releases too much info and I think the integrity of a case is paramount and is far more important than all of us knowing what LE knows.

So theorizing is all we can do and again, the mods do the very best they can to steer that speculation to that which is based on fact or widely reported information.

I also challenge your supposition that there wouldn't be much left here if "bashing" were removed. Visit the time line and media forums and read there. Read document threads, press conference reports,motion discussion,family law explained,cell phone ping information,donation information,search information and more. There is excellent expert opinion peppered throughout the forum.

This is a place to come together and discuss what is reported and see what sense we can make of it.

I 100% concur that I wish we had an idea where Kyron is. Thanks for your input Billylee.

I know JBean, there was a lot of work put into this case here, I'm just venting I guess. It's so frustrating now because all there is going on is the vilification of TH and IMHO that is NEVER going to bring Kyron home.

If she is guilty, I think it will have quite the opposite effect, in fact, I fear she may get off scott free because of what's going on. I am not an attorney nor a judge, so I don't know for sure, but I think it will be extremely difficult for her to get a fair trial, and I'm not sure what that means in this case. JMO Just frustrated here.

 

[gwenabob]

I wouldn't worry about that, Billylee. Multnomah county is extremely liberal and juries tend to bend over backwards on the accused's side. I think she would get a more fair verdict here than in many other parts of the country.

 

[Trt]

I know JBean, there was a lot of work put into this case here, I'm just venting I guess. It's so frustrating now because all there is going on is the vilification of TH and IMHO that is NEVER going to bring Kyron home.

If she is guilty, I think it will have quite the opposite effect, in fact, I fear she may get off scott free because of what's going on. I am not an attorney nor a judge, so I don't know for sure, but I think it will be extremely difficult for her to get a fair trial, and I'm not sure what that means in this case. JMO Just frustrated here.

I understand the frustration(I mentioned to someone else about how frustrating it was to wait for Casey's arrest and we knew WAY more about what LE had against Casey very early on), but I think that if anything, her attorneys are hurting her chance of a fair trial more than any statement from the grieved parents ever could. Her lawyers have called her the defacto suspect and have made statements such as she CAN'T get on the stand to fight for her child because she values her FREEDOM (among other very negatively biased things). They speak out and do not deny any of the allegations against Terri. Those types of things coming from those that are supposed to be defending her would do much more to sway a jury pool, IMO.

 

[Trt]

While the sexting imho is nothing other than pure unadulterated sleaze, it doesn't say a thing about TH's culpability in Kyron's disappearance. It's a nasty distraction. We can surmise all we want, but we really don't know how nor why it came about...whether MC was a plant by LE or KH to obtain information.All it revealed, if it actually is as it has been made public, is that TH is prone to presenting a sexually desirable, albeit promiscuous image of herself.

How does that help find Kyron or learn what befell the child?

A lot of our opinions about her actually come from her own mouth. Odd, considering that I have never heard her speak. The reason she failed the LDTs is, imo, a significant clue in this case. I would assume that she was asked if she harmed Kyron...if she knew what happened to him...if she killed him....if she knew where he was. If TH was untruthful or evasive to any of those questions, I think LE would have not said that she was cooperating with them. The implication that I got from what LE said about her is that she cooperated in Kyron's case but was uncooperative in other areas. LE defines this as her knowledge of something to do with Kyron. Maybe it isn't.
After 5 months and not a trace of this missing child, perhaps it's time for everyone connected to this case to think outside the neatly packaged box that is the evil stepmother. It's time to find this little boy.

BBM

This is the quote from the LE response to media questions:

Q: Weeks ago you said Terri Horman has been cooperating - is that still true? Kaine and Desiree have said otherwise.

A: "During this investigation Terri Horman has been cooperative and there have been other times she has not. We cannot speak to specifics regarding this issue."

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/99147939.html

I wouldn't think that LE started out with the premise that Terri is the *evil stepmother*(I don't believe that they operate under that premise now). But how can LE or anyone else be expected to think *outside* the box when they have been *apparently* unable to verify Terri Horman's story(one that we have seen morph through e-mails and with media appearances by her friends)? How would it serve Kyron to ignore inconsistencies in the story of the last known person to see the missing child?

JMO

 

[LindseyLou]

I know JBean, there was a lot of work put into this case here, I'm just venting I guess. It's so frustrating now because all there is going on is the vilification of TH and IMHO that is NEVER going to bring Kyron home.

If she is guilty, I think it will have quite the opposite effect, in fact, I fear she may get off scott free because of what's going on. I am not an attorney nor a judge, so I don't know for sure, but I think it will be extremely difficult for her to get a fair trial, and I'm not sure what that means in this case. JMO Just frustrated here.

Ya know I've been thinking about your post...maybe its because that's all we have to chew on in this whole situation...the insinuation by Kyron's parents and LE that TH had something to do with Kyron's disappearance and whatever else she has done to make herself look worse in the public's eyes. I think I can speak for everyone to say that we ABSOLUTELY ALL have the same hopes that Kyron is found safe or even found period for his parent's sake. However, we don't have anything whatsoever from LE or anyone credible to put into the focus on finding Kyron and put our frustrations and all of of energies into searching for him instead. I think a lot of people are just frustrated with the lack of info and the lack of even a POI or arrest - when there is clearly a missing child still. The only thing we can do is try to pick apart and decipher the closest thing to an answer to this case: TH's actions and mental state, in order to (for lack of a better word) soothe our frustrations. (and trust me WS monitors your posts - I got carried away one time venting my frustrations and my post was deleted because it was against the rules.) LOL

 

[DreamyEye]

It's one thing for someone to clam up for the sake of self protection when under scrutiny in a high profile case. It's another thing to stop cooperating with LE, get involved in a sleazy love affair, and while away the days firing off X-rated texts. These behaviors do not prove TH's guilt on any count other than having very poor judgment. They are, though, suggestive of a person who 1) doesn't give a gosh-darned about what anyone thinks, 2) is choosing not to dwell on sad feelings or a sense of loss for Kyron, or her own daughter, and 3) evidently believes that the ordinary rules of civility and decent conduct that most of us willingly observe do not apply to her.

Out of all of the hundreds of people at that school the day Kyron disappeared, little to nothing has leaked out about anyone else who possibly had a history of unusual conduct. I can't imagine what it must be like for the other parents whose lives have been impacted simply because they might have passed Kyron in the hall the day he disappeared, or stopped for a moment to chat with TH. On top of having learned that the security at the school attended by their beloved children stinks, they have probably been subjected to a certain amount of scrutiny themselves--with LE and the press trying to find out whether any of them had a record or was considered odd or creepy by others associated with the school. Lord only knows what these poor people have been subjected to.

The only one we keep hearing more and more unsavory news about is TH.

 

[Billylee]

It's one thing for someone to clam up for the sake of self protection when under scrutiny in a high profile case. It's another thing to stop cooperating with LE, get involved in a sleazy love affair, and while away the days firing off X-rated texts. These behaviors do not prove TH's guilt on any count other than having very poor judgment. They are, though, suggestive of a person who 1) doesn't give a gosh-darned about what anyone thinks, 2) is choosing not to dwell on sad feelings or a sense of loss for Kyron, or her own daughter, and 3) evidently believes that the ordinary rules of civility and decent conduct that most of us willingly observe do not apply to her.

Out of all of the hundreds of people at that school the day Kyron disappeared, little to nothing has leaked out about anyone else who possibly had a history of unusual conduct. I can't imagine what it must be like for the other parents whose lives have been impacted simply because they might have passed Kyron in the hall the day he disappeared, or stopped for a moment to chat with TH. On top of having learned that the security at the school attended by their beloved children stinks, they have probably been subjected to a certain amount of scrutiny themselves--with LE and the press trying to find out whether any of them had a record or was considered odd or creepy by others associated with the school. Lord only knows what these poor people have been subjected to.

The only one we keep hearing more and more unsavory news about is TH.

bbm

I think you're making an excellent point. TH is the only one we hear unsavory news about, and ALL that news is coming from KH & DY. Not one other person has told the news media that Terri is a drunken, sexpot, child harming demon. Not one. Not even LE. It's all coming through Kaine, which makes me feel it's just all about his wanting out of a marriage, while maintaining custody of his children. Because, that's exactly what it sounds like to me, a nasty divorce.

What we have heard from others, is that Terri was great with children, loved all her children, was the main care provider for Kyron, spent her time volunteering at the school, etc. So are they lying or is Kaine? If Terri is as Kaine describes her, I wish we could hear that from someone else what a horrible mother Terri was; someone, not involved in the family, but who knew the Horman's, but we're not hearing anything like that at all. That to me, speaks volumes. One would think that by now, there would be more people who knew the Hormans out there agreeing with Kaine and coming forward to slam Terri. Where are they? Add to that, then when both the Oregonian and Willamette Week, came out with stories that said anything at all nice about Terri, Kaine kicked them out of the pressers.

I find this whole thing fascinating, but I still wish the focus was on finding Kyron and what the task force is doing to do so.

 

[Donjeta]

I'm not really certain if we can be sure that not having anybody but your ex say bad things about you means that the people who say you're a great mom are right. Many people think it's important to keep up appearances and smarten themselves up in public and their intimate families are really the only people who know their warts. And some of the people associated with the Hormans have probably realized a long time ago that it could be risky in terms of personal PR to be named in connection with the case and declined to comment no matter what they'd have to say about Terri.

But you're right, it's an exceptionally nasty divorce.

I'd be damned before I'd allow my lawyers to let my ex get away with painting me as a sex crazed child killing alcoholic in our divorce if I'm anything but.

 

[Shadowboy]

[/B]

Add to that, then when both the Oregonian and Willamette Week, came out with stories that said anything at all nice about Terri, Kaine kicked them out of the pressers.

(snipped)

Just as a timeline clarification: When KH kicked out The O and WW, the family was still presenting a united front. It was before the MFH news, RO, and KH/DY interviews pointing the finger at TH. Not sure of KH's reasoning, but likely the same as asking for written questions that were answered in writing (same presser): to keep control of the info getting "out there" per LE's request.

 

[Billylee]

I just find it fascinating that the media hasn't interviewed ANYONE, who corroborates Kaine's account of Terri. I'm not saying they're not out there, I just find it fascinating. If Kaine can go out and get depos from people to that effect, who are they? Where are they? I guess investigative reporting is dead. IDK.

 

[Donjeta]

I would dearly love to know who could be deposed to say what as well but I suppose Rackner could have advised the people she's planning to depose to stay quiet in the media to avoid Houze and Bunch getting wind of who they are and to avoid making any extra statements that could end up contradicting what they said in the deposition.

 

[Pensfan]

I just find it fascinating that the media hasn't interviewed ANYONE, who corroborates Kaine's account of Terri. I'm not saying they're not out there, I just find it fascinating. If Kaine can go out and get depos from people to that effect, who are they? Where are they? I guess investigative reporting is dead. IDK.

Except for DeDe, maybe Terri didn't have any close friends for the media to interview? Perhaps the media tried to interview individuals that Terri knew and they all quickly fled from the camera?

IMO, Terri's medical record/doc visits/ER visits will corroborate Kaine's account of Terri and this is precisely why the motion for visitation was cancelled.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I just find it fascinating that the media hasn't interviewed ANYONE, who corroborates Kaine's account of Terri. I'm not saying they're not out there, I just find it fascinating. If Kaine can go out and get depos from people to that effect, who are they? Where are they? I guess investigative reporting is dead. IDK.

It's interesting because the two people who could corroborate probably won't.

Terri's son and Kyron.

They are the only two I can think of who were home at night to see TH's behavior.

I can't imagine who else would know about it.

 

[Trt]

According to Kaine, friends came to LE and Kaine after the fact to talk about alcohol being missing from their homes when Terri would stay over.(why I think that a lot of these accusations were pieced together after the fact) jmo

 

[Billylee]

It's interesting because the two people who could corroborate probably won't.

Terri's son and Kyron.

They are the only two I can think of who were home at night to see TH's behavior.

I can't imagine who else would know about it.

So she was never hung over? She never wreaked of alcohol? IDK, like I said, I just find it interesting that no one's talking. Maybe, like someone said, they just don't want to be involved in this, or maybe Terri hid it soooo well, that even her best friends, family, part-time co-workers, maybe none of them knew. IDK.