The truck, the science project and TH

[Susan10]

Maybe this is neither here nor there, but how big was this project, anyway? It didn't look that big to me in the picture with Kyron in front of it. IMO, why would she need a truck to transport this? It's not like it was the size of a grand piano or something.

IMO, you are totally correct.

 

[gwenabob]

I am wondering....on such an important day why the teacher had not changed the date. Many parents who came to see the Science Fair had to take off work. If I was a teacher there, I would have changed the date earlier, but that's just me.

Obviously, the teacher had more on her/his mind than getting the details together if what you say is true. Has she/he been asked about her/his mistake?

tia

I think it is because the day had not yet started. It was just left over from the day before. Maybe the class changes the date together as part of their routine. Why would she change it to Friday's date on Thursday? I think it is just a red herring.

 

[Donjeta]

I feel that there was way too much confusion and miscommunication going on about that day when Kyron disappeared but it didn't stop there. After reading that I've still got no idea who thought what and who said what to whom and who was right and who was wrong and why.

Did they think the project was due to be returned on Friday? Apparently not if Terri took it to Skyline on Thursday.

Did they think the parents' day was Thursday? It doesn't make sense if they thought the projects were due on Friday and Terri would have found out that she was there on the wrong day on Thursday. Did Kaine think one thing and Terri the other and if so, why? If she wanted to mislead him, whyever so? Apparently he thought that the parents' day was Friday (that's what Desiree thought too) and it was but he didn't go anyway so what would be the point? If he'd known that Kyron's presentation was on Thursday, would he have gone there and if he had, how would it have mattered anyway (supposing Terri had a plan to disappear Kyron on Friday). And didn't Kyron know? If he had already presented his project on Thursday he'd have been able to say so on Thursday evening or Friday morning when he and Terri and Kaine spoke about it and the parents (presumably) wished him luck for his presentation.

I don't really understand what's going on here.

If Terri honestly thought that Friday was going to be more of an event than it really was and there was going to be a presentation to be videotaped and then found out there wasn't, I would understand why she chose to stick around for 30 minutes or 45 minutes and decided to leave after seeing what there was to see, not staying the whole time like she had originally planned and told Desiree.

But the picking up the projects part doesn't make sense to me. If she emailed the teacher about what time she could pick up the project (is it a rumor or a fact at this point? I forget). Why didn't she ask when she saw the teacher in the morning? Why didn't they go to pick up the project in the afternoon, although they were both free to do so? Why not simply arrange to pick up the project and Kyron at the same time? It would have been practical whatever they thought about Friday morning but if she had planned Kyron's disappearance the teacher might have sounded the alarm earlier if the stepmom told her that she'd pick Kyron and the project up in the afternoon implying that Kyron was supposed to spend his day in the classroom but Kyron was absent all day.

 

[Haeve]

I'm confused why Kaine would ask TH where the project was when he got home. Personally, if I was arriving home to work at home, as KH was, the location of the project wouldn't cross my mind until much later.

This is a serious question for all you parents and your partners. Would any of you normally inquire of the other parent where something you said you would be picking up that day was? To me it would be like telling your partner, "I'm going grocery shopping today." Totally routine. Would your partner interrogate you about the location of the groceries the minute s/he got home? (aside: IMO, that sounds like the type of controlling person Kaine, on flimsy evidence, IMHO, has been accused of being) One might if one discovered the fridge was still empty, but other than that?

It just seems weird to me that KH would ask where the project was on a normal day. I mean, he'd already seen the project, probably helped with it IMO (no I don't have a link for that), and by the time he may have noticed the project wasn't home, they had already discovered that Kyron was missing.

Can folks explain why they think KH would/should have asked about the whereabouts of the project when he got home? Is this normal behavior in two-parent households?

I honestly don't know--I'm not a parent and was raised by a single I-guess-you-could-call-her-a mother.

 

[KopDog]

Maybe this is neither here nor there, but how big was this project, anyway? It didn't look that big to me in the picture with Kyron in front of it. IMO, why would she need a truck to transport this? It's not like it was the size of a grand piano or something.

small red sports car, babyseat in the back, kyron in the front (although technically he should still be in the back...in Illinois anyway, he would be sitting in the back. It's not that she couldn't take in the car, but would be a lot easier in another car, which in their case is a truck...just a guess.

 

[Donjeta]

Can folks explain why they think KH would/should have asked about the whereabouts of the project when he got home? Is this normal behavior in two-parent households?

Either way seems perfectly normal to me. If he didn't ask, there was no reason he should have, as far as I'm concerned, because it was not a pressing issue at the time. But if he did ask it wouldn't seem odd to me either, just a part of the normal chitchat of the day. "Hi honey, how was your day, what happened at the science fair, did you bring the project home already or do we need to pick it up?"

 

[cindysue]

Maybe this is neither here nor there, but how big was this project, anyway? It didn't look that big to me in the picture with Kyron in front of it. IMO, why would she need a truck to transport this? It's not like it was the size of a grand piano or something.

I agree i think if we can figure out why she needed the truck ..oviously not to transport a piece of cardboard imo. then we would have a valuable clue to this crime.

 

[human]

I'm confused why Kaine would ask TH where the project was when he got home. Personally, if I was arriving home to work at home, as KH was, the location of the project wouldn't cross my mind until much later.

This is a serious question for all you parents and your partners. Would any of you normally inquire of the other parent where something you said you would be picking up that day was? To me it would be like telling your partner, "I'm going grocery shopping today." Totally routine. Would your partner interrogate you about the location of the groceries the minute s/he got home? (aside: IMO, that sounds like the type of controlling person Kaine, on flimsy evidence, IMHO, has been accused of being) One might if one discovered the fridge was still empty, but other than that?

It just seems weird to me that KH would ask where the project was on a normal day. I mean, he'd already seen the project, probably helped with it IMO (no I don't have a link for that), and by the time he may have noticed the project wasn't home, they had already discovered that Kyron was missing.

Can folks explain why they think KH would/should have asked about the whereabouts of the project when he got home? Is this normal behavior in two-parent households?

I honestly don't know--I'm not a parent and was raised by a single I-guess-you-could-call-her-a mother.

Seriously, that project was done by the parents. You can see in the comparison of Kyron's work at his desk.

Perhaps if the parents were proud of their own work, they may have been anxious to display their work in their home.

Otherwise, why would this project play any big deal in their lives. It's only big to people here because it's related to the fateful day.

I am in a two parent household, but our kids are grown-ups. But I am a teacher, and my children did their own work and I really didn't know when their projects were coming back home. So, my view may be skewed.

I just don't think the project is such a big deal.

 

[human]

small red sports car, babyseat in the back, kyron in the front (although technically he should still be in the back...in Illinois anyway, he would be sitting in the back. It's not that she couldn't take in the car, but would be a lot easier in another car, which in their case is a truck...just a guess.

Since she didn't pick it up and was wondering when to pick it up (NOT!!), what difference would it make?

The talent show was that day and she emailed the teacher at a time that the teacher would in no way have time to look at her email, so really, what is going on here?

 

[Haeve]

Seriously, that project was done by the parents. You can see in the comparison of Kyron's work at his desk.

Perhaps if the parents were proud of their own work, they may have been anxious to display their work in their home.

Otherwise, why would this project play any big deal in their lives. It's only big to people here because it's related to the fateful day.

I am in a two parent household, but our kids are grown-ups. But I am a teacher, and my children did their own work and I really didn't know when their projects were coming back home. So, my view may be skewed.

I just don't think the project is such a big deal.

BBM

The first bold sentence--that would be sad...and creepy.

The second is exactly what I was thinking. But I wanted to see how other parents would handle the project situation in their homes. My mother wouldn't have known a darn thing about any projects, nor would she have helped pick them up, let alone help with them. I was on my own there. So to me it's...yawn...yet another school project. :cow:

 

[BuzzieCat]

small red sports car, babyseat in the back, kyron in the front (although technically he should still be in the back...in Illinois anyway, he would be sitting in the back. It's not that she couldn't take in the car, but would be a lot easier in another car, which in their case is a truck...just a guess.

I admit I haven't looked to see what her car or the truck were like. Did her car have a trunk? Did she always/almost always use the car for transporting baby K? If so, and if there's a trunk, it wouldn't be any more difficult than usual as far as I can see. Strap the baby in like always, get Kyron to get into the back seat on his own, throw the poster and diorama into the trunk, and forget about it. If there's no trunk or she didn't have the car seat set up in the car, I could see more difficulty.

Also, why not just plan on picking Kyron up from school that day and get the project then? That's what seems hinky to me. Why would you need to make a special arrangement to get the project back if it was a normal day with no doctor's appointment (and no disappearing children) planned? You could just forgo the bus and pick up kid and project easily unless there's some other pressing engagement keeping you away. :twocents:

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I think it is because the day had not yet started. It was just left over from the day before. Maybe the class changes the date together as part of their routine. Why would she change it to Friday's date on Thursday? I think it is just a red herring.

On a day when the routine is totally disrupted and kids are milling about on their own changing the date on the whiteboard would not be Job 1. it's possible that the teacher might have even started to change it but then was interrupted or distracted. Even the hour before school would have been outside of the normal routines. The best way to date the picture would be to figure out what Kyron wore on the two days, especially if he was seen on video or in pictures other than those taken by TH and match that to the recollections of witnesses.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Regarding the big deal about getting projects home--my daughter-in-law has had to pick up her son at school because kids are told to take projects home and the tri-folds are too big to handle on the bus, especially for little guys like Kyron. And apparently, in some schools, projects actually done by kids are not acceptable. In my daughter-in-law's case, her son (an A student, very bright) had his project sent BACK with a note that it "wasn't good enough to be displayed in the school science fair" and "requested" the trifold display, etc. Other times, they want PowerPoint reports from second-graders. What do kids do who don't have computers or parents with degrees? After the science fair debacle, I shelled out $100 for a "genuine" kids' size NASA suit because the kids were told they had to dress up to give reports on their favorite occupation. He had already signed up for astronaut. Our little guy got 100% on that one and a nice note from the teacher, who surely had to know that a NASA suit and official freeze-dried ice cream weren't put together out of the back of the coat closet. Next year, he better pick computer nerd--khakis, glasses, pocket protector. We can do that for under $100... I've told my daughter-in-law to talk to the principal, but evidently she is in the minority. These so-called student projects are just another way for some parents to compete, like making sure their kid gets playing time on sports teams or is granted extra credit work to get a grade up to an A or B.

Sorry for the rant and off topic. But there is no way to determine what the norms for this sort of
project were/are in Kyron's school. They are hardly going to admit if they expect parents to do the work so that things look "nice." And perhaps they see nothing wrong with that, although as a teacher in HS and college for over 30 years, I see that sort of "learning" as a joke and bad for kids in every possible way.

 

[BringKyronHome]

D mentioned that Terri e-mailed her about the project because D wanted to see it.

It seems from all these stories that Terri may have assumed that at 10am she would NEED or COULD take the project home.

She left early though...fussy baby or rediculous for her to stay when the kids would be touring, who knows...

Obviously she couldn't take the project at 8:45, as the fair had not ended.

She e-mailed the school to find out when she could retrieve it (allegidly) so that Desiree could see it, I'm sure Kyron was bragging about it to her.

I saw a flyer early on from the PTA that described the day (the 4th)...that the school was opened 8am-10am for working parents and the public to view & tour the fair.

I've looked for this several times since I orginally saw it & now cannot remember where it was that I saw it & can't find it...has anyone else seen this?

My recall is that the fair was open to the public 8-10.

Yet everyone talks about these tour groups assembling at 8:45.

At what point do the teachers/chaperones determine who is going with the group and who may be staying with their parents (assuming the parents could chaperone their own child)?

Was there any direction given to students or parents about this? My recall is that it was not clear in the flyer, and why I'm so curious to reread this.

I recall also that there were statements about the chaotic nature of the morning...it does seem like there is a large problem with the organization here...and can see how there would be a lot of room for confusion.

However, I'm assuming that this was not Skyline's first science fair, so I'm sure that kinks of this nature would have been picked up previously and worked out.

So my question is, how were the details of this activity communicated to the children. How would a parent have known whether or not to turn their child over at 8:45...was it even an option? I'm inclined to think not, since there were still many kids that were not there with parents at all.

So, why then is it posted as an event open to the public from 8-10? WTH were non-student/non-volunters doing at the school between 8:45-10? Milling around? That seems a bit odd! So is the flyer incorrect? Were they really only able to be there until 8:45? So the flyers are misleading?

From what I've seen, I think there is good reason that both T & K were confused!

And I REALLY want to know what the school did at 8:45...was there a mass exidus at that time? Were students required to go to their class at 8:45 or was it an option? And IF it was an option, I want to know how teachers knew who they were responsible for.

would it have been possible for a child to be unsupervised during this time?

 

[Billylee]

For the record, Kaine himself said she took the truck instead of the car because the project might have not fit in the car without getting crushed. He goes on to say it fit well behind the seat of the truck. (There's been so many interviews, I'm not sure which one it was)

Two things confuse me though. Why not just pick Kyron up WITH the project after school instead of making a special trip and having Kyron take the bus home. That makes very little sense to me. Also there was mention that Desiree was wanting to see the project. See it where? At the school? At TH's home? Or, was TH to pick up the project & Ky and take it to DY?

I am not clear on this issue either; was this or was it not the weekend that DY was to get Kyron? When that happens, it's my understanding that TH takes Kyron to Euguene (about an hour and a half drive and DY come up there from Medford, about a two hour and 15 min. drive.) When was that supposed to take place? After school? I ask this, because KH said they had discussed going to get ice cream that afternoon when school was out.

So I am confused about when DY was supposed to see this project and when she was supposed to have Ky. If it was his weekend to be with DY, then wouldn't TH have packed a bag or backpack for him?

 

[human]

Regarding the big deal about getting projects home--my daughter-in-law has had to pick up her son at school because kids are told to take projects home and the tri-folds are too big to handle on the bus, especially for little guys like Kyron. And apparently, in some schools, projects actually done by kids are not acceptable. In my daughter-in-law's case, her son (an A student, very bright) had his project sent BACK with a note that it "wasn't good enough to be displayed in the school science fair" and "requested" the trifold display, etc. Other times, they want PowerPoint reports from second-graders. What do kids do who don't have computers or parents with degrees? After the science fair debacle, I shelled out $100 for a "genuine" kids' size NASA suit because the kids were told they had to dress up to give reports on their favorite occupation. He had already signed up for astronaut. Our little guy got 100% on that one and a nice note from the teacher, who surely had to know that a NASA suit and official freeze-dried ice cream weren't put together out of the back of the coat closet. Next year, he better pick computer nerd--khakis, glasses, pocket protector. We can do that for under $100... I've told my daughter-in-law to talk to the principal, but evidently she is in the minority. These so-called student projects are just another way for some parents to compete, like making sure their kid gets playing time on sports teams or is granted extra credit work to get a grade up to an A or B.

Sorry for the rant and off topic. But there is no way to determine what the norms for this sort of
project were/are in Kyron's school. They are hardly going to admit if they expect parents to do the work so that things look "nice." And perhaps they see nothing wrong with that, although as a teacher in HS and college for over 30 years, I see that sort of "learning" as a joke and bad for kids in every possible way.

As a teacher and a grandparent, I am absolutely disgusted that there are teachers out there like that. Although I have some friends that are college professors and in fact, PARENTS hassle the profs over their young adult's grades.

As I have said before on here; have a pretend school for parents and they can make projects write papers and be on sports teams. Then let the children actually learn something in their own real school.

O/T rant myself! We never did our kid's school work for them, although I know of parents who did. They all graduated from college and are employed in their fields. Why? Because they have a work ethic . While others have gotten laid off, my kids are still on the job.

 

[human]

D mentioned that Terri e-mailed her about the project because D wanted to see it.

It seems from all these stories that Terri may have assumed that at 10am she would NEED or COULD take the project home.

She left early though...fussy baby or rediculous for her to stay when the kids would be touring, who knows...

Obviously she couldn't take the project at 8:45, as the fair had not ended.

She e-mailed the school to find out when she could retrieve it (allegidly) so that Desiree could see it, I'm sure Kyron was bragging about it to her.

I saw a flyer early on from the PTA that described the day (the 4th)...that the school was opened 8am-10am for working parents and the public to view & tour the fair.

I've looked for this several times since I orginally saw it & now cannot remember where it was that I saw it & can't find it...has anyone else seen this?

My recall is that the fair was open to the public 8-10.

Yet everyone talks about these tour groups assembling at 8:45.

At what point do the teachers/chaperones determine who is going with the group and who may be staying with their parents (assuming the parents could chaperone their own child)?

Was there any direction given to students or parents about this? My recall is that it was not clear in the flyer, and why I'm so curious to reread this.

I recall also that there were statements about the chaotic nature of the morning...it does seem like there is a large problem with the organization here...and can see how there would be a lot of room for confusion.

However, I'm assuming that this was not Skyline's first science fair, so I'm sure that kinks of this nature would have been picked up previously and worked out.

So my question is, how were the details of this activity communicated to the children. How would a parent have known whether or not to turn their child over at 8:45...was it even an option? I'm inclined to think not, since there were still many kids that were not there with parents at all.

So, why then is it posted as an event open to the public from 8-10? WTH were non-student/non-volunters doing at the school between 8:45-10? Milling around? That seems a bit odd! So is the flyer incorrect? Were they really only able to be there until 8:45? So the flyers are misleading?

From what I've seen, I think there is good reason that both T & K were confused!

And I REALLY want to know what the school did at 8:45...was there a mass exidus at that time? Were students required to go to their class at 8:45 or was it an option? And IF it was an option, I want to know how teachers knew who they were responsible for.

would it have been possible for a child to be unsupervised during this time?

I have never seen it on here again, but someone said on Nancy Grace (I think, as I don't have cable or whatever it is to get those programs), that the science fair closed at 8:30 for the kids.

That makes sense. The buses arrive at the latest, I believe from the schedule at 8:35. Warning bell rings at 8:35. Class starts at 8:45.

When we have events at school, the time does not change as to make changes in bus schedules is a monumental undertaking.

If it's the same as where I live, buses are coordinated so that some drop off kids at an earlier starting school and then go on to pick up kids that start at a later starting school.

This saves on the cost of drivers and buses.

When we have events at our school, the parents tour on their own, and the kids go with their classrooms. This is during the regular school day. Usually, a teacher signs up for a time so not everyone is in an area at the same time.

But I have no idea how Skyline handles their events.

 

[Jo in Calif]

D mentioned that Terri e-mailed her about the project because D wanted to see it.

It seems from all these stories that Terri may have assumed that at 10am she would NEED or COULD take the project home.

She left early though...fussy baby or rediculous for her to stay when the kids would be touring, who knows...

Obviously she couldn't take the project at 8:45, as the fair had not ended.

She e-mailed the school to find out when she could retrieve it (allegidly) so that Desiree could see it, I'm sure Kyron was bragging about it to her.

I saw a flyer early on from the PTA that described the day (the 4th)...that the school was opened 8am-10am for working parents and the public to view & tour the fair.

I've looked for this several times since I orginally saw it & now cannot remember where it was that I saw it & can't find it...has anyone else seen this?

My recall is that the fair was open to the public 8-10.

Yet everyone talks about these tour groups assembling at 8:45.

At what point do the teachers/chaperones determine who is going with the group and who may be staying with their parents (assuming the parents could chaperone their own child)?

Was there any direction given to students or parents about this? My recall is that it was not clear in the flyer, and why I'm so curious to reread this.

I recall also that there were statements about the chaotic nature of the morning...it does seem like there is a large problem with the organization here...and can see how there would be a lot of room for confusion.

However, I'm assuming that this was not Skyline's first science fair, so I'm sure that kinks of this nature would have been picked up previously and worked out.

So my question is, how were the details of this activity communicated to the children. How would a parent have known whether or not to turn their child over at 8:45...was it even an option? I'm inclined to think not, since there were still many kids that were not there with parents at all.

So, why then is it posted as an event open to the public from 8-10? WTH were non-student/non-volunters doing at the school between 8:45-10? Milling around? That seems a bit odd! So is the flyer incorrect? Were they really only able to be there until 8:45? So the flyers are misleading?

From what I've seen, I think there is good reason that both T & K were confused!

And I REALLY want to know what the school did at 8:45...was there a mass exidus at that time? Were students required to go to their class at 8:45 or was it an option? And IF it was an option, I want to know how teachers knew who they were responsible for.

would it have been possible for a child to be unsupervised during this time?

Thank you for this post, it is very similar to my post up thread, I have never had any conformation on the time students were to be in class either, was roll call not taken at this time? I think the reason we are so confused about all this is because LE has asked that school personnel was asked not to talk about it. I'm sure LE has all the answers to this and hopefully some day we will to.

 

[BringKyronHome]

I have never seen it on here again, but someone said on Nancy Grace (I think, as I don't have cable or whatever it is to get those programs), that the science fair closed at 8:30 for the kids.

That makes sense. The buses arrive at the latest, I believe from the schedule at 8:35. Warning bell rings at 8:35. Class starts at 8:45.

When we have events at school, the time does not change as to make changes in bus schedules is a monumental undertaking.

If it's the same as where I live, buses are coordinated so that some drop off kids at an earlier starting school and then go on to pick up kids that start at a later starting school.

This saves on the cost of drivers and buses.

When we have events at our school, the parents tour on their own, and the kids go with their classrooms. This is during the regular school day. Usually, a teacher signs up for a time so not everyone is in an area at the same time.

But I have no idea how Skyline handles their events.

No offense, but NG hasn't really taken the time to get her facts very straight...the worst thing she keeps saying is that Terri walked Kyron to his classroom...No she didn't! She said she walked him down the hall, close, maybe 100 feet from his class room, watched him walked toward his class and waved to him...she then left...

to me it sounds as if she was either going in the opposite direction to exit, or she stopped at the exit to watch him walk toward his class...

anyway, back to point...the flyer I saw and the sign outside the school both state the fair was an event from 8-10. Assuming this flyer would be for the parents...as I'm sure it wasn't for the children, it should outline the time for parents to participate, right?

So I just don't get the tours starting at 8:45 and the event beign open to the public until 10.

I could see that a parent could accompany their child from 8:45-10, that makes sense too...but HOW in the world would a teacher know with all those extra people who they were to have with them and who was on the other side of the school with their parent?

Assuming they just take whoever is IN class at 8:45...then that means that there is room for kids to be roaming around unsupervised without a parent and not in a group, all while hundreds of unofficial adults roamed around the school without signing in.

I gotta believe they saw this problem and dealt with it...I can't imagine this occured...if it did they they are damn lucky that they have only lost one child for all the years they have been organizing the fair in this way...

So, I'm going to assume they saw this problem...I just want to know what their slution was.

It seems reasonable to require all children (perhaps along with their parent) to report to their class at 8:45.

So was Kyron there at that time or not...if not why in the world didn't an alarm go off at that time?

The only thing I can guess is that it was ok for student to tour with their parents...since shortly before that he was seen with Terri...no alarms went off...

So, where is the communication here?

How many kids walked away from their parent at 8:45, and wandered through crowded halls filled with strange faces toward their class to be organized into groups?

Or how many kids got off their bus wandered the fair along side strangers (aka some other kid's parent/guardian and who knows who else) until the bell rang or after?

Something is just not adding up here!

 

[Leila]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/search_for_missing_portland_bo.html


HERE IS A QUOTE FROM ABOVE ARTICLE on 6/5/10:



(end quote)

My comment is: This published article states that parents were invited to the annual Science Fair at Skyline School on 6/4/10 during the hours of 8am to 10am. It appears that in the KATU interview either Kaine is trying to make excuses for Terri, or more likely, that he allowed her to confuse him about the activities of Thursday and Friday. IMO - Once he was aware that Kyron "disappeared" nothing that Terri told him made sense.
Kaine did say in another interview that Terri told him she NEEDED the TRUCK FRIDAY to pick up Kyron's project. IMO - Kaine was too pre-occupied, or maybe didn't want to speak to Terri any more than he had to - but too bad when he arrived home he didn't say "where is Kyron's project?". Then, if she had made up some excuse Kaine likely may have said he would take the truck, pick up Kyron from school and get his project at the same time. Done. Was this already a soured marriage? I don't think either of these two spoke to each other unless it was deemed necessary.

If only, if only, if only.
IMO - The truck plus the Science Fair plus Terri adds up to minus one missing child.

My impression, from what we know and the various news articles, is that Friday was the day for parents to attend the science fair. It would appear, and Kaine clarified it in the family press conference, that there was confusion over the two-day science fair. I think Kaine was purposely misinformed.

Although Kaine hasn't spoken about the state of his marriage, certainly the MFH is evident that Terri was unhappy. There might have been a lot of stress factors in that marriage that we just don't know about. I think Kaine might have been preoccupied with his work and just didn't see that train come barreling down the track at hjm.