Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[Dignity4Victims]

Oh this IS awful. Thank you (in a sad sort of way) for sharing.

If this happened to Caylee, would the recovered rib bones have shown breakage or is it just the soft tissue such as the lungs that is crushed....so sorry for the mental picture..

To think that beetch will probably not give a second thought to Caylee tomorrow on Mother's Day...this trial can NOT come soon enough. :furious:

I know how you feel, SG, but take comfort in the fact that a Higher Power is now giving Caylee all the love & attention that she so sorely missed in her earthy life.

That same Higher Power will make sure justice is done for Caylee for what her mother and grandparents did to her, and failed to do for her. They are no longer in control, and their just desserts will most definitely be served.

 

[joypath]

Based on your education and experience in your field, Joy, do you fully believe the duct tape was used to suffocate Caylee?

I realize this is only your educated opinion and that you haven't examined (what was left of) her remains, but I can't reason any other logical explanation for the duct tape if it wasn't used to premeditate her murder.

Your thoughts, please?

D4V: I originally hoped before I had details that the tape was an indicator that the felon was trying to simulate a kidnapping because she found a deceased Caylee but.....conversations/consultations within the forensic community have led me down a different road. Given the information available to we private citizens, I'd be standing right next to Jan on MOD if this were my call!.....and of course, she has even M O R E...like those pictures & investigator reports!

 

[Aedrys]

Oh this IS awful. Thank you (in a sad sort of way) for sharing.

If this happened to Caylee, would the recovered rib bones have shown breakage or is it just the soft tissue such as the lungs that is crushed....so sorry for the mental picture..

To think that beetch will probably not give a second thought to Caylee tomorrow on Mother's Day...this trial can NOT come soon enough. :furious:

Even worse, she'll expect some kind of Mother's Day gift because she WAS a mother. She'll still see tomorrow as a day for her. That's enough to make me throw up right there.

 

[Intermezzo]

Maybe it's Embarrassment in the sense that she was caught or anger - "how can they blame that on me!" When the SA was describing at the Hearing how the State believes Caylee died, I saw more anger coming from KC than sadness.IMO a lot of how KC "appears" in court has to do with the attention she is getting from her attorneys and the jail visits from the experts and the cameras in court. Throw in the fact that her parents will apparently do and say anything to "save" her. All of this attention is nothing but positive reinforcement to her. I truly doubt that her internal conversation with herself ever puts two and two together. Never realizing that she is getting all this attention because she is accused of killing her daughter. She just takes it in as support for her belief in her own importance - self worth.

Jaw clenching can be a sign of anger.

BBM
I agree. I also see more anger than sadness from her.
During the Budget hearing on Thursday..when the cameras would zoom in on her she was clenching her teeth a lot...

 

[Aedrys]

Based on the talk from this thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90039&page=16, starting on page 16 through the last page, I think what happened to Caylee is much much worse than we could have probably imagined. It pains me to type what I am about to type, but I feel like it must be done.

From what Bond was able to show, even Caylee's eyes were covered with duct tape. Basically her whole face was covered in duct tape. This shows Casey's anger. You don't tape an ENTIRE face to show a kidnapping, just the mouth, which is what we all thought beforehand. But Bond's little project shows up it wasn't just the mouth and nose, it was her whole face.

So my theory is thus: Casey got mad because Caylee was still calling out for Cindy. She gives her chloroform sedate her quickly, then in keeping up with her anger, takes four pieces off of the roll of duct tape she had with her and covers Caylee's entire face with it, knowing that even if Caylee woke up from the chloroform wearing off, the duct tape would silence her.

She returns later, finding Caylee dead, and one piece of duct tape off of her eyes - proof that poor Caylee woke up, panicked at not being able to see or breathe, and yanked at the duct tape enough to remove one piece before she died. What unimaginable horror and trauma Caylee must have suffered in her last moments of life.

And Casey, being unemotional and sociopathic, thinks only to hide the evidence, sweeping Caylee and the loose piece of duct tape into two bags and throwing everything in the swamp where she thought Caylee would forever rot. SHE DIDN'T CARE THAT CAYLEE SUFFERED ONE BIT even though SHE HAD TO KNOW CAYLEE PULLED OFF ONE PIECE OF DUCT TAPE.

To say Casey is soulless is almost not enough. She is inhuman, and if the prosecution can demonstrate and prove to the jury at trial that this is what happened to Caylee, Casey won't get less than the Death Penalty.

I am the saddest I have ever been in this case right now, near tears knowing how much Caylee suffered. I'm glad she's safe in heaven now, but no child should EVER have to go through what she did. The horror of this scenario is immense and probably not believable to some, but it's what I think really happened based on the brilliance of fellow WS'ers in figuring out the sequence of duct tape from the roll. Go read the above thread to see exactly what I mean.

God bless you, poor, sweet Caylee. I hope the A's are in court and listening when the prosecution describes how she died, especially if they use this scenario. And if they still read here, I hope this keeps them up at night for the rest of their lives, knowing they support such a heinous, cold, sociopathic killer and hold her in higher regard than their loving, innocent, beautiful grandchild, God rest her little soul!

 

[beach]

I agree with everyone saying her visceral reactions (jaw clenching, etc..) are signs of anger. And I hate to keep talking about it on this thread, but I went to the psyche profile thread and that didn't seem the place either in re. the ongoing conversation. So, mods, please feel free to move this or open a new thread, if needed.

The reason I asked that question to begin with is because LambChop & I were both commenting in the Duct Tape thread (right after Bond posted his most recent brillant findings) about how KC was going to come unglued when that graphic testimony would be presented by the SA during trial. She already can't control her reactions - everything about her demeanor changes when the DP is mentioned or especially when JA described in detail the SA's theory about how Caylee died. I am truly wondering how she is going to be able to control her reactions in front of the jury during trial. If she doesn't get more self-control, that alone could become the defense's biggest problem.

 

[logicalgirl]

In my very humble opinion, Casey Marie Anthony is and was capable of silencing her daughter forever without the benefit of ANY type of premedication but plenty of premeditation! Caylee was an accessory, charming while a baby, now a handicap as an articulate toddler; a reminder of the freedom that Casey LOST, a reminder of the responsibilities Casey DID NOT WANT, a reminder of her perceived "failure" in her fantasy world! Casey's world revolved/revolves around C A S E Y, you, dear reader, are here only because SHE has acted in a manner that allows you entrance into her special environment and you can be a supporting player but don't you DARE be like those people in the courtroom prosecution side talking about her in her regal presence without her permission!
I cleared a fire scene with 3 deceased toddlers,the mommy managed to flee the single room fire. The babies were barely touched but even at the scene, I could declare it homicide. News crews interviewed mommy, weeping and wailing about her losses, her anguish, her pain.....YEP, you all got it...SHE lost her designer JEANS!!!!!!!!, Her irreplaceable special pocketbooks (Some hoochie mama designers!), Her AMAZING Ipod 'cause it had her Man's music on it (BLEECH!),Her Super special cosmetics & hair stuff for her "weave", and was M O A N I N G for medical help for her cough! One local "Kathie B" clone actually used the "B" word and said, "what about the babies?"....and THEN the DIVA began......WAILING

Final resolution: LWOP, babies were each "burked" before the fire!

Er...novice here. Burked? Killed? Strangled? "Made Dead?"

Whoops, read the rest of the thread - how terrible - no response necessary.

 

[TrY]

My theory is that Casey killed Caylee at home. Nobody was home except Casey and Caylee. I don't think Casey did it somewhere else while driving around in her Pontiac Sunfire and carrying around a roll of GA's duct tape in the car to help knock Caylee out because I don't think Casey thinks that far ahead or planned that far ahead either. The tape was at home and it was a murder of convenience done at home, IMO.

IMO, Casey just got lucky that Caylee's body wasn't found sooner so that there would be more evidence. Casey dumped Caylee where it was convenient for her, around the block from her home in the nearest wooded area.

I think SA Jeff Ashton has got it right about how Caylee died and given Casey's reaction in court when he was saying how Caylee died, I think that he was pretty accurate - and that Casey wasn't crying for Caylee when JA said it, IMO, she was crying for herself.

It's not going to take much for JA to get under Casey's skin when this case goes to trial either.

 

[LambChop]

Snipped

It's not going to take much for JA to get under Casey's skin when this case goes to trial either.

And doesn't he just know that for sure and will use it during the trial to evoke those reactions from her. jmo

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I believe, after that physical altercation with CA, which CA adamantly denies, was the catalyst for Caylee's demise..

I envision her taking off in a rage, dragging Caylee along, I feel she took out all her anger and rage she held for her mother on this beautiful child (like the jailhouse video of her shaking her fists and making that awful face).

Whatever she felt for her mother, was taken out on Caylee. Inmate Anthony is not the mothering kind, IMO. She only loves herself. Caylee became a liability being very articulate for her age. Caylee was mistreated by her mother which is why she would gravitate towards her grandmother. Between the jealousy of Caylee taking center stage over Inmate Anthony, the rage of her mother putting her hands around her neck, telling Inmate Anthony she will get custody of Caylee..Inmate Anthony would never allow this to happen I do believe Caylee was killed in her carseat because Inmate Anthony beat her (wasn't a tooth of Caylee's found in the carseat?) CA promised Inmate Anthony everything would be alright. Now CA is making demands, doesn't want to babysit any longer, wants Inmate Anthony to be a better mom, accusses her of stealing from her grandparents, angered the heck out of her...sort of an, I'll show you act....She may have been unconscious when she placed her in the trunk, the duct tape was placed on this child in a rage, while still alive, IMO, as JA describes it:

In December, in fact, Assistant State Attorney Jeff Ashton described how prosecutors think Caylee died, with duct tape over her nose and mouth.

He suggested a child who was nearly 3 years old should have been able to remove the tape — but Caylee could not, meaning she was either drugged or physically restrained, he said.

"If she was physically restrained, her killer would have had to restrain her arms by some means, applying tape while she was conscious," Ashton said in December.

"As the killer looked into her face, maybe her killer even saw her eyes as the tape was applied. ...Could Caylee have understood what was happening to her? Did she try to resist? Could the killer see the fear in her eyes as the tape was applied? These are questions only the jurors will be able to answer in this case."
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/was-duct-tape-used-to-murder-caylee-anthony-246303.html

I really hope Inmate Anthony would take the high road for once in her life and spare the gory details of Caylee's death and her last moments alive. She truly should think about pleading guilty instead of being found guilty. I'd rather see her do LWOP than give her an injection to die. Her death if by lethal injection would be much kinder to her than she was to Caylee..I'd want to see her suffer for the rest of her life behind bars, feel what she's missing, never to walk free..her bella vita en la casa grande...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

 

[MissJames]

Maybe it's Embarrassment in the sense that she was caught or anger - "how can they blame that on me!" When the SA was describing at the Hearing how the State believes Caylee died, I saw more anger coming from KC than sadness.
IMO a lot of how KC "appears" in court has to do with the attention she is getting from her attorneys and the jail visits from the experts and the cameras in court. Throw in the fact that her parents will apparently do and say anything to "save" her. All of this attention is nothing but positive reinforcement to her. I truly doubt that her internal conversation with herself ever puts two and two together. Never realizing that she is getting all this attention because she is accused of killing her daughter. She just takes it in as support for her belief in her own importance - self worth.

Jaw clenching can be a sign of anger.

Thank you for sharing .
KC knew how to "express" what passed for feelings when it suited her. In her texts and even the jailhouse letters ,she expresses concern for friends and overuses terms of endearment.
But none for Caylee.Even Susan Smith was able to put forth an act of concern after she murdered her boys. It would seem it has not even occured to KC to FAKE feelings of caring for Caylee.Those first jailhouse phone calls and visits show KC as the sociopath she is. "All anyone careas about is finding Caylee. What about me? I want chili ,tooooo ! " Paraphrased,of course.

I have no doubt that KC was not only capable of killing Caylee without drugs,I think she enjoyed it.

 

[belle3]

i think the jealousy ca talked about in her myspace message was about caseys jealousy for caylee. its evident from the all they care about is caylee statement. i believe she thought that having this baby would bring her more attention than she could ever hope for but then the cute little adorable caylee was getting too much of that attention. this murder was anothe way for casey to get the attention back. i believe she did use chloroform. i believe she porbably used it on unsuspecting friends to steal from them. i believe that caylee was alive until she couldnt find someone to take care of her. and i believe that caylee said or did something that made her mom really mad and she killed her. drugged her with chloroform and cut three pieces of tape and held them down until she couldnt breathe anymore. theres something that casey says in one of her instant messages to the effect of love taking the breath out of you. i believe she took the breath out of caylee. poor beautiful baby.

 

[Marina2]

I think the duct tape was used to kill Caylee, not after sedation or as an original plan to murder her. I think KC injured Caylee very seriously (paralysis, head trauma, coma) right after the fight or during the night as she texted and spoke with AL. KC could never admit to CA what had happened and in KC's mind, Caylee could never be "the same as she was" after this serious injury. The tape was used to bring about her death and end the suffering KC caused with her rage. The tape was placed over her mouth and nose to suffocate her and over her eyes so KC wouldn't have to see the terror reflected in them as she lay dying. In her injured state, Caylee didn't have to be restrained or sedated. She couldn't fight or pull the tape off. The heart sticker was a final kiss goodbye; an "I'm sorry". The Winnie the Pooh blanket was pulled over Caylee and KC never looked at her again.

Sometime during the early morning hours of the 16th, Caylee's body was placed in the trunk, still wrapped in the blanket. The next morning, KC never opened her bedroom door and neither GA or CA saw Caylee that morning. The story KC gave of dropping Caylee off between 9am and 1pm was because she didn't know what GA would say about seeing Caylee or not that morning. This covered all bases. The "flury of calls" was to GA and then to CA seeking reassurance that it was alright to have the Pontiac since, imo, CA had forbid her having it during the fight the night before. She wanted to make sure CA wouldn't report it stolen because Caylee's body was in the trunk. She took it regardless. Remember CA's "We got the car back...", the 911 calls to report a car theft, taking the battery out so she wouldn't take it again. KC was not supposed to leave the house with that car on the 16th.

After a couple of days, KC knew she had to do something with the body. Backing the car into the garage she borrowed the shovel to scoop the body into the bags. Leakage had already occurred in the trunk at this point. The shovel was taken out to the back yard and rinsed in the pool or hose causing the decomp that the dogs hit on. After bagging, KC discarded Caylee in the woods.

I think the chloroform had nothing to do with the murder. KC may have had it in the trunk and it spilled. This would account for her "losing it" when the JA spoke of her using it to kill Caylee. She knew she didn't do that even though all the rest was true.

I really think Caylee died prior to the daylight hours of the 16th because of all the contradicting stories CA and GA gave about that morning and the denial of the fight. They knew that the fight was the catalyst and that they never saw Caylee after they went to sleep that night.

 

[strawberry]

I think the duct tape was used to kill Caylee, not after sedation or as an original plan to murder her. I think KC injured Caylee very seriously (paralysis, head trauma, coma) right after the fight or during the night as she texted and spoke with AL. KC could never admit to CA what had happened and in KC's mind, Caylee could never be "the same as she was" after this serious injury. The tape was used to bring about her death and end the suffering KC caused with her rage. The tape was placed over her mouth and nose to suffocate her and over her eyes so KC wouldn't have to see the terror reflected in them as she lay dying. In her injured state, Caylee didn't have to be restrained or sedated. She couldn't fight or pull the tape off. The heart sticker was a final kiss goodbye; an "I'm sorry". The Winnie the Pooh blanket was pulled over Caylee and KC never looked at her again.

Sometime during the early morning hours of the 16th, Caylee's body was placed in the trunk, still wrapped in the blanket. The next morning, KC never opened her bedroom door and neither GA or CA saw Caylee that morning. The story KC gave of dropping Caylee off between 9am and 1pm was because she didn't know what GA would say about seeing Caylee or not that morning. This covered all bases. The "flury of calls" was to GA and then to CA seeking reassurance that it was alright to have the Pontiac since, imo, CA had forbid her having it during the fight the night before. She wanted to make sure CA wouldn't report it stolen because Caylee's body was in the trunk. She took it regardless. Remember CA's "We got the car back...", the 911 calls to report a car theft, taking the battery out so she wouldn't take it again. KC was not supposed to leave the house with that car on the 16th.

After a couple of days, KC knew she had to do something with the body. Backing the car into the garage she borrowed the shovel to scoop the body into the bags. Leakage had already occurred in the trunk at this point. The shovel was taken out to the back yard and rinsed in the pool or hose causing the decomp that the dogs hit on. After bagging, KC discarded Caylee in the woods.

I think the chloroform had nothing to do with the murder. KC may have had it in the trunk and it spilled. This would account for her "losing it" when the JA spoke of her using it to kill Caylee. She knew she didn't do that even though all the rest was true.

I really think Caylee died prior to the daylight hours of the 16th because of all the contradicting stories CA and GA gave about that morning and the denial of the fight. They knew that the fight was the catalyst and that they never saw Caylee after they went to sleep that night.

Excellent theory! I wish I could think like this! The only thing I didn't agree with your post is the "Roll Tide" next to your avatar (being a Nittany Lion myself).

 

[iluvmua]

Was it the Chloroform or the Tape placed around her mouth and nose?

has it been mentioned what specifically killed her?

 

[ZsaZsa]

Here is what the SA states happened to her.
http://www.wesh.com/news/21924382/detail.html
Asphyxiation by duct tape.

 

[Reagan]

The ME stated it was Homicide by undetermined means (due to lack of organs/tissue/etc )

We will never see the autopsy photos, and I doubt the placement of the tape, but I trust that the DA has enough evidence, and the jury will have enough common sense to know that placing tape over a child's mouth and nasal apertures would suffocate a 2 1/2 year old child to death.

 

[ZsaZsa]

The ME stated it was Homicide by undetermined means (due to lack of organs/tissue/etc )

We will never see the autopsy photos, and I doubt the placement of the tape, but I trust that the DA has enough evidence, and the jury will have enough common sense to know that placing tape over a child's mouth and nasal apertures would suffocate a 2 1/2 year old child to death.

As Joypath has said on here, the ME will be able to expand on her findings during the trial. Their written reports have to be framed in legalese, but she is free to express her opinion in Court.

 

[wenwe4]

The ME stated it was Homicide by undetermined means (due to lack of organs/tissue/etc )

We will never see the autopsy photos, and I doubt the placement of the tape, but I trust that the DA has enough evidence, and the jury will have enough common sense to know that placing tape over a child's mouth and nasal apertures would suffocate a 2 1/2 year old child to death.

I trust that the SA have already done a 3D computer animation of the duct tape w/exact measurements corresponding to a "bust" of Caylee's face OR they will have someone like Frank Bender do a sculpture or some other visual for the jury to support their theory. I don't think they will leave any doubt in any juror's mind if left up to "common sense". (no offense, I just think it would be such a much more massive impact on the jury to actually see the duct tape in place). IMO

 

[Reagan]

As Joypath has said on here, the ME will be able to expand on her findings during the trial. Their written reports have to be framed in legalese, but she is free to express her opinion in Court.

Thanks! I missed that post.

wenwe, I am aware that the State is making a 3D animation of the skull and placement of duct tape, but do you think we the public will be able to see it?