Theories: Why Would Elizabeth kill Gabriel?

[mamaeb]

Does anyone feel it is possible that Gabriel died from an accidental overdose- from Elizabeth being negligent, and giving him too much medicine?

From there, she may have panicked, and disposed of his body.

After that is when she would have contacted Logan to tell him she killed the baby.

idk. I think if she had she would have called logan and said "I gave him away" not "I killed him" ...she would not want to confess that. ..or if she had said anything it would have been a confession to an accidental overdose, not a murder.
I do not think she killed him, if she had she would have run and said nothing to logan. IMO

 

[OneLove]

Do I think Eliz killed Gabriel? NO.

But after this morning's video of the uncaged Tammi, I DO believe the Smith's might have had Logan killed to remove him as an obstruction to getting what they wanted, if they had been able to get him out of town. I do believe they would stop at NOTHING to get what they wanted.

I do believe they use religion as a mask so they feel like they are members of a "club" and so they can have deaf, dumb, and blind supporters.

 

[txsvicki]

Even though Tammi's charged I still think it's possible that EJ may have done what she said she did. I don't exactly trust Tammi, but hearing that EJ was worried about people out of the country watching the news is encouraging. Of course, Tammi could have been lying about that or she could know exactly who these people are. There's no way I believe that Tammi didn't question EJ about these people, where they are, why, etc. Put a couple of narcissists cooking up schemes and one wanting rid of a baby for spite and something bad could have happened.

 

[smart blonde]

Just so everyone knows... I started this thread, but I did not add the poll.

A mod must have attached the poll to the thread, so if you all want the poll removed, please contact a mod- I did not add the poll, and I have no control over the poll, at all.

I only started the thread as an ongoing discussion, to explore all possibilites as to what may have happened to Gabriel.

 

[debloree]

I've really not commented on if I believe Gabriel is alive or not till now. I HAVE to believe he is alive. Any other option makes me sick.

 

[smart blonde]

There is a forum for family-friendly posts, the Missing Persons Information and Support forum. The Discussion threads are not necessarily for family viewing. Here's a post from hoppyfrog in the Cheryl Kanning thread that explains further:
snipped:


I haven't seen WS censor threads in the Discussion area to spare the victim's family's feelings or the emotions of posters. I'd say many of the posts in the discussion forum would be upsetting.

I agree with STEADFAST's post above.

Although I did not attach the poll to this thread, I personally think it should stand, as it is a good indicator of where many of us feel the investigation should focus.

The is a very strong possibility that Elizabeth did kill Gabriel, and just because we HOPE she did not, it doesn't change the fact that she very well may have.

Websleuths is not for the faint of heart. Either is true crime.

 

[cyberborg]

I am neutral on the poll.

I was surprised to discover that members of the family were participating on these threads. That's all good though. However, the conflict and concern about what has happened to Gabriel is not something they are only facing on WS, it is Blogs generally, as well as the media and, interactions in daily life.

No-one can run away from the reality that Gabriel is missing and the daily worry over his well-being. The key is EJ and her silence.

I think what balances everything on WS is that there are more threads and members working positively to help find Gabriel and sleuth ..... so it isn't all bad news.

If I was a famly member I wouldn't care what WS or other people statistically think, I'd be so worried out of my mind running through all of the possibilities and being terrified of that one phone call with bad news that .... posters simply speculating would be something I was more immune to.

As each day passes those internal fears become worse but all anyone can do is to follow the leads and sleuth anew because there is always a chance that Gabriel can be found and found alive.

Until, and if ever that door closes then there is always hope. I believe we all hope that Gabriel is alive and we would all love nothing better than to be proven wrong in our theories and for Gabriel's happy smiling face to appear on TV in the arms of Logan. That'd be the best ending.

 

[2goldfish]

I dont care what happens to the poll but I will say this -

I have learned to trust websleuth's instinct as a whole because for better or worse we usually turn out right. the amount of you believing gabriel is alive gave me a lot of hope I didnt have.

 

[iluvmua]

as more and more time goes on I think the possibility of EJ killing Gabriel is VERY likely.

If she didn't kill him then why is she being so silent in jail?

 

[TXHOPE]

as more and more time goes on I think the possibility of EJ killing Gabriel is VERY likely.

If she didn't kill him then why is she being so silent in jail?

Maybe she's being quiet because she really has no idea where he is. When Tammi had him EJ didn't even want to see where she lived. She has provided a description but I don't know if that was to the LE or just to Tammi. I've only heard the descripition from Tammi. Also she told her Gpa that she's going to get 20 years for kidnapping regardless. You would think they would offer her some sort of deal though...

 

[b4e]

as more and more time goes on I think the possibility of EJ killing Gabriel is VERY likely.

If she didn't kill him then why is she being so silent in jail?

LE has been so tight-lipped about everything in this case. Maybe Elizabeth really has shared what she knows and LE doesn't want to blow the case (or endanger Gabriel) by revealing their cards too early...? (Well, I can hope, anyway!)

 

[Krisy]

LE has been so tight-lipped about everything in this case. Maybe Elizabeth really has shared what she knows and LE doesn't want to blow the case (or endanger Gabriel) by revealing their cards too early...? (Well, I can hope, anyway!)

I'm holding out hope for this as well. I pray they know WAY more than we do here!

 

[YellowSubmarine]

My fear is that the poll may end up showing a strong belief that Gabe is no longer with us, and since his family reads here, their reaction to that.

I may be biased, since I have gotten to know them, and how painful all this is to them. I want to protect them from any more pain than they are already experiencing.

It is an emotional reaction on my part. Even so, I feel compelled to stand by my request, respectfully, that the poll be removed.

ETA: We don't *need* the poll.

I totally understand where you're coming from. Having exchanged several emails with Logan and him having asked me/us personally for help, I hate to think of them reading here and seeing that.

But, in all fairness, this poll has been on many threads before.

I've followed many cases on here and have been sad to hear when our victims are no longer with us, but this is the most invested I've been in a case and will be completely devastated if something has happened to Gabe.

With that said, though, I have never felt so strongly in a case that the child is alive. I have never in this case been waiting for them to discover the body, only for them to figure out who has him.

 

[TXHOPE]

Thank you NMK for posting the first interview with EJ. The part I have listed below really disturbs me. It almost sounds like she's explaining why she killed Gabriel. She explains why she couldn't take him to a safe place, why she didn't want him with Logan. The comment from Tammi about being on a ledge and Logan pushing her off and then EJ uses the same saying-pushing me off the ledge. It's just creepy.

Reporter: Why didn't you, if you were is such dire straits, why didn't you just take the baby to a police station or why didn't you call Tammi and Jack and say, you know what, I can't handle this, you're, you're gonna have to help me here and leave the baby with...?
EJ: I thought about that. I thought about a lot of things, I didn't know what to do.
Reporter: So you didn't think that, you know, here I am in San Antonio Texas, I'm stressed out, I should just go to a police station and leave my baby there, and walk away at that point?
EJ: I did think about that.
Reporter: Well, then why didn't you do it?
EJ: Because I was afraid I was gonna get arrested for kidnapping.
TPS: Who told you that?
EJ: Logan (laughs).
Pause.
TPS: So basically, you were on the ledge, and Logan pushed ya off.
EJ: Yes,
TPS: That doesn't sound...Does that sound like he wanted his child back or...?
EJ: No, he never made one attempt to see him the whole time. I, I had him by myself. He never made one attempt, one phone call, he never, he knew where I was, he had my cell phone number. He never called to ask how me and the baby was doing, he only took things to court. he didn't care, I mean, maybe he can pretend to care now, but I really don't believe he cared, because hes really just after me, and pushing me off the ledge instead of just being civil.
Reporter: But, so, you, so, are you comfortable with the fact that you may never see your kid again?
EJ: No, I'm not comfortable with that. But, that's the decision you make when you give up your child.
Pause.
TPS: Now, let me ask you, why, why do you want to give your child up for adoption? Why, why wouldn't you want the dad to have the baby? Why wouldn't you want Logan to have his son?
EJ: Because I believe he's a very ugly controlling person and he's not capable of raising a child and he's not capable of taking care of the child. He's being supported by his own father and he just wants to make things ugly and I don't want the child to be in the middle of the ugly, ugly custody dispute and it already started off so ugly. And he's just going to make the child miserable and he's gonna make anyone that has anything to do with me, the mother, miserable.
Reporter: And you really felt like giving your baby away to perfect strangers was the right thing?
EJ: I did.

 

[January.]

Here's the thing. Please don't hit me! There have been little indicators that EJ really did care for this baby, even a little bit. In the interview, she says how concerned about Gabriel being in the middle of an ugly custody battle. I know, EJ doesn't always tell the truth but hear me out. In the hotel pics, there are baby toys laying on the bed next to Gabriel. A parent who completely doesn't care and who was set out to kill their child wouldn't bother to pack toys for the baby's entertainment. Other little things too, like the hats Gabriel was wearing. She put them on him to keep him warm. If she was going to kill her baby, do you think she would care about his comfort? In another picture, he was wearing a Christmas sleeper. A parent who completely doesn't care wouldn't bother to go buy their child a Christmas outfit to wear at Christmastime. Granted, Tammi could have purchased this for him while he was in her care, but there are still those other little things that really stick out to me. These little signs that show even the tiniest ounce of care for the baby. I still think if she wanted to kill him, she would have done it in AZ.

 

[TXHOPE]

Here's the thing. Please don't hit me! There have been little indicators that EJ really did care for this baby, even a little bit. In the interview, she says how concerned about Gabriel being in the middle of an ugly custody battle. I know, EJ doesn't always tell the truth but hear me out. In the hotel pics, there are baby toys laying on the bed next to Gabriel. A parent who completely doesn't care and who was set out to kill their child wouldn't bother to pack toys for the baby's entertainment. Other little things too, like the hats Gabriel was wearing. She put them on him to keep him warm. If she was going to kill her baby, do you think she would care about his comfort? In another picture, he was wearing a Christmas sleeper. A parent who completely doesn't care wouldn't bother to go buy their child a Christmas outfit to wear at Christmastime. Granted, Tammi could have purchased this for him while he was in her care, but there are still those other little things that really stick out to me. These little signs that show even the tiniest ounce of care for the baby. I still think if she wanted to kill him, she would have done it in AZ.

I really want to believe this. It just hurts my heart to think otherwise and to think that Gabriel was never loved by his own mother. How is it possible not to love this beautiful child!!! I love him and I've never even met him! His sweet eyes and expressions, I just want to hug him and keep him safe. There is one picture I keep thinking of where Gabriel is in a highchair and their family is at a table and Elizabeth is staring at him with love in her eyes. So I'm hopeful you're right but I don't know if it's really the case from what Logan has said.

 

[burbqueen]

Not to take a shot at anyone but I think some of you don't really understand the nature of child abuse and abusers. As I've said many times, people can have a love/hate relationship with a spouse/child/friend/family member etc.

Just cause a parent buys things for their child or you see them in a picture means nothing, nothing, nothing to me. I've seen it first hand, up and close in my own family.

My sister didnt beat or starve her kids, but there was emotional abuse. Yes, she would provide for them, but once you crossed her, she would lock her kids in a closet or pawn their xmas gifts that I bought them. One moment hugs and the next you are stupid and worthless. One day she loved them and the next day she would trip them for fun or "punish" them by leaving for a few days alone and no food. These were children 9, 10 and 12 yrs old. People are rarely 100% evil, but just a enough dose of crazy to put you in that category.

People have babies all the time they don't need or want or can't handle enough emotionally. Some people give the kid away to relatives, but a lot convince themselves that they can be a good parent and try. Yeah, they try and then the crazy comes out and next thing you know they are tossing a baby against a wall in a fit of anger. It happens so much. We as sleuthers should know this more than the average everyday person.

I believe more and more each day that EJ killed Gabriel and dumped him somewhere. There are plenty of places in SA. Don't let the family pictures fool you and I think a lot of what people see in pictures is projection. They just don't wanna believe that EJ killed Gabriel or may see love. I don't see any love there really and its hard to tell from just a picture. I just see a picture. I've seen xmas cards, family photos, and videos or seeming happy people but in fact the dad was beating the mom and molesting the kids

 

[TXHOPE]

Not to take a shot at anyone but I think some of you don't really understand the nature of child abuse and abusers. As I've said many times, people can have a love/hate relationship with a spouse/child/friend/family member etc.

Just cause a parent buys things for their child or you see them in a picture means nothing, nothing, nothing to me. I've seen it first hand, up and close in my own family.

My sister didnt beat or starve her kids, but there was emotional abuse. Yes, she would provide for them, but once you crossed her, she would lock her kids in a closet or pawn their xmas gifts that I bought them. One moment hugs and the next you are stupid and worthless. One day she loved them and the next day she would trip them for fun or "punish" them by leaving for a few days alone and no food. These were children 9, 10 and 12 yrs old. People are rarely 100% evil, but just a enough dose of crazy to put you in that category.

People have babies all the time they don't need or want or can't handle enough emotionally. Some people give the kid away to relatives, but a lot convince themselves that they can be a good parent and try. Yeah, they try and then the crazy comes out and next thing you know they are tossing a baby against a wall in a fit of anger. It happens so much. We as sleuthers should know this more than the average everyday person.

I believe more and more each day that EJ killed Gabriel and dumped him somewhere. There are plenty of places in SA.

I can't speak for January but I can speak for myself and I FULLY understand what abuse can look like and what can happen from one day to the next. In my post I was acknowleding January's hope that she did not kill Gabriel and maybe she did have some good intentions. I don't believe this is the case from what Logan has witnessed but I think we should all feel comfortable about posting our theories without being told we don't understand abuse.

 

[burbqueen]

no TX Hope I wasnt speaking to you specifically, but to others in general who have been looking at the pictures. not your post. I guess I dont understand how anyone could not think that she didnt kill her kid. There is no solid evidence either way, but as time goes on it gets harder and harder for me to believe that someone has the baby. Yes there are underground networks, but I really don't think the rabbit hole goes that deep or TS had that many types of connections.

 

[jenny1976]

I just think that if little Gabriel was still alive and EJ really DID give him to an adoptive couple, then she (EJ) would throw up her hands and cut a deal to reduce her sentence to get out of jail.

I think the reason she isn't talking is because she did the unthinkable and she is hoping that as long as they don't recover a body, then she won't be charged with murder.

HOWEVER, I hope that she IS talking to the police and they are just keeping it under wraps with hopes of finding Gabriel alive!