Theories: Why Would Elizabeth kill Gabriel?

Did Elizabeth kill Gabriel?

  • yes

    Votes: 80 44.2%
  • no

    Votes: 101 55.8%

  • Total voters
    181
  • Poll closed .
I WISH they would have searched the dumpsters and landfills the minute they found out that EJ sent that text to Logan saying that she had killed Gabriel.

And they probably would have, if Tammi Fay Peters Smith had not insisted that Gabriel was alive, and then been so focused on her own coverup rather than finding Gabriel. She said with ALOT of assurance "I can tell you, that baby is alive and well", or something to that effect.

That she is now criticizing LE for NOT searching then is outrageous. Yes, they probably should have in hindsight, but I think SHE is the last person on the face of the earth that should be saying so. :furious::furious::furious:
 
And they probably would have, if Tammi Fay Peters Smith had not insisted that Gabriel was alive, and then been so focused on her own coverup rather than finding Gabriel. She said with ALOT of assurance "I can tell you, that baby is alive and well", or something to that effect.

That she is now criticizing LE for NOT searching then is outrageous. Yes, they probably should have in hindsight, but I think SHE is the last person on the face of the earth that should be saying so. :furious::furious::furious:

On this one, I would have to be more angry at LE, as they should know better than to base their strategies on the statements of one set of people, especially when the suspect says something different. Emotion has no place in police strategy. You don't fail to search the landfills because you want to believe the person is still alive.
 
Even though I think Elizabeth is capable of hurting Gabriel I hold out hope that he is still alive. Why hire a babysitter one night only to kill him the next day? Seems nonsensical to me and appears to jive with a scenario where she may have been meeting with someone to make arrangements for a transfer or underground adoption.

It would also be rare for a mother to harm her child and then dispose of hundreds of miles from home.

But a study by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children shows that fathers are far more violent. And mothers frequently dispose of the corpses in what researchers call a "womblike" fashion. Bodies are swaddled, submerged in water, or wrapped in plastic. Moreover, the NCMEC study showed that while the victims of maternal killings are almost always found either in or close to the home, fathers will, on average, dispose of the bodies hundreds of miles away. All these behaviors suggest that women associate these murders with themselves, their homes, and their bodies.
http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/

I am new to this case but I am going to hold on to hope until evidence shows otherwise.
 
I have a few questions:

If EJ was paid for Gabriel, then why was she staying at some youth hostel after riding a bus and being the only Caucasian on board. She seems like the type to demand money up front, left a college scholarship just because she didn't like her room mate, and is prone to throw fits. Seems like she'd have demanded money for a motel and got away in more comfort. Long bus rides and hostels sound horrible and like someone running quickly from something really horrible.

If Tammi was in on a baby broker, then why hadn't she gotten her own baby long ago from one of them instead of turning to foster care after getting involved with some mentally unstable girl and baby's daddy who actually wanted him.
 
Sorry this post is so long! I've been thinking about this a lot!!

Theory: (Just my thoughts from reading and observing...)

There is a lot of evidence that E is a narcissist.

"Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism." (Mayo Clinic) I believe this fragile self-esteem vulnerable to criticism is what leads to her violent temper tantrums.

I do not believe that E would kill Gabe. She would only kill him in a rage, and he would not stimulate a rage in her. He can not challenge her self esteem. As a narcissist, I believe that if he was crying, she would just ignore it.

I believe that, as with her dogs, she would not simply get rid of something (or someone) if she stood to gain from it financially.

She stood to gain both in revenge against L and financially by selling Gabe. She knew she could not give him up for legitimate adoption.

TS was her original customer, but she realized it was too risky to sell him in AZ, and she could do better money-wise.

TS somehow became a partner in this-- perhaps when she realized she would not be given Gabe, she and E made a deal to split the money. Or, perhaps, TS came upon an opportunity to exploit someone who thinks she's smarter than everyone else, but is actually too self-centered to understand that at 23, she doesn't know squat.

TS and EJ both schemed against each other behind the scenes believing that each could end up with all the money by screwing the other one over...

TS set up the "adoption" (which I believe was really a sale). Gabe was sold to a broker who specializes in these types of transactions. I do not believe that TS and EJ are sophisticated enough to set up this type of deal themselves and leave no trace.

I don't believe that the people who actually want the child bought him directly from EJ or TS. I believe that most people who buy from a broker are just desperate, not evil. If they actually saw EJ or TS on the news, having bought Gabe directly from them, I believe they would come forward. (yes, criminal consequences or not). They would feel badly for Logan missing his boy. The couple who has ended up with Gabe has no idea who he really is because they bought him from a broker. (Nor do they probably really want to know.) They can hang on to whatever story the broker told them about getting the baby from some teen mom who was desperate and alone and just couldn't care for him.

The broker is the one who set them up with the babysitter. S/He does this frequently and knows the best way to set it up -- babysitter, meet alone without the kid, two hotel rooms (the broker was probably a guest at the other hotel), set EJ up with fake TX ID, etc The broker probably gave her cash for the hotel.


TS was to wire the money or put it into a specific account once EJ was safely in FL

TS and EJ had a contingency plan that, if caught, EJ will sit in jail for a set amount of time, and let LE exhaust themselves following fake leads (like a landfill search) (plan possibly recommended by the broker)

EJ thinks that TS has the money and will split it with her when she gets out. (Or visa-versa, but I think it's more likely that TS is hiding the money knowing they would scrutinize EJ's financials, AND TS owns a business in which she could camouflage the money)

Also, LE doesn't have probable cause to search TS's financials like they do with EJ. She will have time to filter the money. They would need much more evidence of some financial involvement on her part to subpoena the records... so far, they have kept all the financial dealings attached only to EJ. (selling her dogs to raise money, paying cash, etc)

In a set time (like 60 days) EJ will come forward with some kind of story like: "Some people kidnapped Gabe. They told me that if I didn't keep quiet for "X" number of days, they would kill him (and my whole family or some such). This exonerates TS of any involvement. She was so scared she didn't know what to do. She will cry, say she is so scared for her family and her baby, and meanwhile, the trail has gone cold.

A time frame of about 60 days would be about right because she will have faded from the limelight, and then will suddenly be front page news again... and posing as a sympathetic creature.

I'm not saying people, LE nor the public, will BUY this story, but that is what she will come up with (Narcissists believe they are smarter than everyone else, so she thinks her plan is fool-proof).

Meanwhile, TS knows that
she has the money,
EJ's story, while unbelievable, doesn't point the finger (or any
new fingers) at her
EJ will be spending 20 years in jail, and after this, even if she comes out to implicate TS, no one will listen to her after so many lies.


This is all just my opinion from my mind, which, admittedly, leans toward conspiracy theories!! Feel free to punch holes in it, because I love to discuss these ideas with others. And the people here at WS have the best ideas and insights!!


One non-theory piece::
Question: Why are they searching a landfill in AZ, if he was last seen in TX... do they know something they aren't telling the public yet??? If I missed something, please post... TIA

I like this theory and this is why i think TS got JM involved in this. JM was in TX in Dec/09. See her post at "Our Little Miss Schlorship Competition" (strange coincident in the name of this site - is it somehow a code name for EJ the schlorship winner?) Its JM's phone #. JM from the adoption place. JM that TS told EJ to call while EJ was on the run

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...tml+"(615)+473-5153"&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

JM's addresses in TN reverse back to San Antonio (she either lived there or someone close to her did or does still live in San Antonio.

I think JM was there paving the way for a sale in Dec/09. This is just my theory.
 
I have a few questions:

If EJ was paid for Gabriel, then why was she staying at some youth hostel after riding a bus and being the only Caucasian on board. She seems like the type to demand money up front, left a college scholarship just because she didn't like her room mate, and is prone to throw fits. Seems like she'd have demanded money for a motel and got away in more comfort. Long bus rides and hostels sound horrible and like someone running quickly from something really horrible.

If Tammi was in on a baby broker, then why hadn't she gotten her own baby long ago from one of them instead of turning to foster care after getting involved with some mentally unstable girl and baby's daddy who actually wanted him.

I think she wanted money, but she wanted to hurt Logan even more. The need for vengeance is like that in some people, it overcomes everything, including self comfort. Money may not even have been her main goal. Or she might have had plenty of it, already stashed somewhere.
Long bus rides and hostels are a heavenly vacation when compared to being trapped in a place you don't want to be with a child you don't want at all.

Tammi lost custody, and voluntarily terminated her rights to her other three children, as I understand it that would not have made her suitable for adoption through most reputable agencies. She also likely is not suitable for actual fostering, but H would have been a family placement/private adoption and a totally different story. She didn't get Gabe from fostering, she got him from a direct placement, his mother handing him over.

Imo, she would rather have died than hand Gabriel to Logan, he ruined her life, why would she make him happy?
 
I think she wanted money, but she wanted to hurt Logan even more. The need for vengeance is like that in some people, it overcomes everything, including self comfort. Money may not even have been her main goal. Or she might have had plenty of it, already stashed somewhere.
Long bus rides and hostels are a heavenly vacation when compared to being trapped in a place you don't want to be with a child you don't want at all.

Tammi lost custody, and voluntarily terminated her rights to her other three children, as I understand it that would not have made her suitable for adoption through most reputable agencies. She also likely is not suitable for actual fostering, but H would have been a family placement/private adoption and a totally different story. She didn't get Gabe from fostering, she got him from a direct placement, his mother handing him over.

Imo, she would rather have died than hand Gabriel to Logan, he ruined her life, why would she make him happy?

I agree 100 %. I really believe that for the first time in her life, EJ was in total control of something and she isn't going to give in for anything in the world.
 
If it's true, it's excellent news.
IMO, it would mean Gabriel is definitely alive.


It sure could because meeting with strangers on xmas day is unusual. The video showed more of that man in the ad who sued someone than they showed the diaper bag. It was a split second look at a similar diaper bag.
 
snipped for space

Tammi lost custody, and voluntarily terminated her rights to her other three children, as I understand it that would not have made her suitable for adoption through most reputable agencies. She also likely is not suitable for actual fostering, but H would have been a family placement/private adoption and a totally different story. She didn't get Gabe from fostering, she got him from a direct placement, his mother handing him over.

Imo, she would rather have died than hand Gabriel to Logan, he ruined her life, why would she make him happy?
Just a FYI, even IF it is a private adoption, it MUST go through the courts and the prospective adoptive parents MUST go through the exact thing as you do when hiring an agency. There are homestudies, background checks, interviews, etc. It's all the same process to adopt thru an agency, foster or private. The same homestudies and background checks must be done.
 
This was on Dec. 27th so the baby was already gone, either with an adoptive couple or the worse.

But Tammi called the judge on 1/4, so I think TPS knew where Gabriel was on that date.

"On 01/04/1010, Judge McVey telephoned the T.P.D. He provided me with a voice message which was left by Tammi Smith. I recognized her voice due to my previous interviewing. In the recording, Tammi Smith requests Judge McVey return her phone call. Tammi states that she believed that Elizabeth would return with the baby if she could know that Gabriel would be "safe." Tammi then suggests that Judge McVey grant the Smith's guardianship."
 
The "Kiss My A_ _ Suckas!" MS post from EJ keeps popping in my head. Would a mother who just killed her child really post something like that right after? I know I can't even attempt to get inside the scary place know as EJ's head but you would think if someone killed their child they would shut up and not post anything, anywhere and just try to disappear not to mention the fact that that comment is just cruel and evil to post, I mean he was her child you would think she would have some guilt or regret afterwards. I mean she couldn't of been happy if that happened, I know she didn't care for Gabe but she's selfish so she would of been scared...you would think. It just doesn't sound like a person who just killed her child, it sounds like she gave him to another family and is telling Logan to kiss her arse but then again Casey Anthony was dancing on the top of tables. :waitasec:
 
The "Kiss My A_ _ Suckas!" MS post from EJ keeps popping in my head. Would a mother who just killed her child really post something like that right after? I know I can't even attempt to get inside the scary place know as EJ's head but you would think if someone killed their child they would shut up and not post anything, anywhere and just try to disappear not to mention the fact that that comment is just cruel and evil to post, I mean he was her child you would think she would have some guilt or regret afterwards. I mean she couldn't of been happy if that happened, I know she didn't care for Gabe but she's selfish so she would of been scared...you would think. It just doesn't sound like a person who just killed her child, it sounds like she gave him to another family and is telling Logan to kiss her arse but then again Casey Anthony was dancing on the top of tables. :waitasec:

The myspace status pales in comparison to confessing via text message to killing your son. If she could do that, I think she could do most anything. Then again, I would expect her to be quite calm, finally relaxed, not really that hyped. But that's just from my armchair perspective.
 
The myspace status pales in comparison to confessing via text message to killing your son. If she could do that, I think she could do most anything. Then again, I would expect her to be quite calm, finally relaxed, not really that hyped. But that's just from my armchair perspective.

The text and the call was the sickest, worst thing a mother could ever say much less do to her own child but that could of been right after in the heat of the moment but days after to post that, after its sunk in? It just doesn't sound right to me but then again I'm not an evil biotch so maybe that's why i don't understand. Ugh.. I just want him to be alive and I was glad Tammi was arrested yesterday but last night I was really sad for Gabriel. It just doesn't look good.
 

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