Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody and/or Associates

[mbroemsen]

Does everyone tend to agree that Bobby Wolgast (boxer) is Brody?

If so, then that means we have three possible names to research (George Brody, Robert Wolgast and Anthony Giordano)...

I'm still researching the connection between Margaret Kukoda and Brody, and have some questions...

1) Do you have an army number for Margaret? I looked on this site and she is not listed: http://aad.archives.gov/aad/index.jsp Are you positive she was in the army?

2) Do we have any pictures of Margaret? I found an old yearbook picture, but I dont have anything to compare it to...

3) Like HoT said, researching "anthony giordano" is like looking in a needle in a haystack. There are soooooo many possibilities. Here are a couple of my thoughts, I guess I'm just looking for opinions...

- "wolgast" fought in san fran in 1940 (i thought this was midget???) if this is true, then he probably moved from pilly to san fran between 1930 & 1940.

- I researched draft records for ww2 and it dawned on me that perhaps he might have been a bit old?? if he was "in his 60's" when anna was born, then he had to have been born around 1907 (to make him exactly 60). That would have made him about 30 around the time of the WW2 draft, and I saw few people that enlisted at this age. Does anyone have any thoughts? I was just thinking although this seemed like a good possiblity, perhaps its just not logical enough (not that anything from GW or GB seems to be anyway)

2) Doogie - you said you boxed, right? Well, if you look at Wolgast's schedule, he spent alot of time in Philly & Atlantic City. I did some basic research on philly in the 1930s and it was heavily influenced by the mafia - with a shakedown going on at the time (that boss also ran atlantic city). Would you say that if this is our Brody, there was a good chance (pretty likely) he was exposed to these elements just by the nature of being in boxing?

3) I thought perhaps our Brody was involved in an unsolved crime in Philly, mafia-related or otherwise, and hence his reason for moving and the name change. Again, more research. I found something called the "poison ring" in Philly during the 1930s that was a group of people that were scamming insurance (sound familiar?). I guess it was a huge deal and perhaps also worth looking into.

4) There is a Paul Giordano that wrote (a bit later tho) for the Buck County Chronicle. Ancestry shows 2000+ articles, most with his name as reporter & covering sports.... Same name, and our "giordano" had the claim to fame of winning by newspaper decision... plus he was listed as a printer (the other two lodgers on the 1930 census were also newpaper/printing related). Might be a connection here. I looked to see if I could track down a printer that was owned by their family, but no luck.

5) I decided to see if anyone else was looking for a lost wolgast or giordano (if he moved and changed his name, perhaps he also lost contact with his relatives). Didnt find anything of note, although if we decide wolgast is brody (and hence giordano), there is already so much on the message boards, we might be also to post some messages there and see if anyone who already did the research can help us out?

 

[MagicRose99]

If memory serves me right... MK was a navel nurse on the Presido army base in SF

 

[HeartofTexas]

MB, your thinking re Anthony Giordano/Brody/Wolgast is pretty much what I've been thinking. Our research is going in the same direction.

Here are a few of my thoughts:

1. For whatever reason, I do NOT believe that it was bobby wolgast who fought in SF in 1940. I have nothing to back that up except to say that I do not believe he went from bantamweight to whatever weight he was in 1940.

2. My best guess (and remember the key word "Guess") is that Brody was in some way related to the Giordano crime family, and was trying to get away from them when he moved to SF. And thus, I don't think he would do anything to call attention to himself by fighting out there under the same name he fought under on the East Coast. There was so much paranoia surrounding Brody, and it's possible it was well-founded. He probably never even had a residence in his own name, but instead used either Kukoda or Waters as his cover. He obviously didn't have a social security name that we are aware of. And when he died, certain papers were destroyed by Waters before Waters himself committed suicide. So there was a huge amount of secrecy and paranoia surrounding Brody, and I think one way to explain that (although not the only way) was by him being related to the Giordano crime family.

3. And if I haven't said it recently (ha!), there are so many Anthony Giordano's (at least 8 born between 1900 and 1908 in PA), that it is going to be an awesome task trying to track our Anthony. I'm not sure what we'll actually discover, though, once we do track him, if we are actually able to track him. The one thing, however, that we do need to know, IMO, is IF the boxer Anthony Giordano has already died. So that would be the main reason for attempting to track him.

 

[mbroemsen]

HoT,

I wasnt really sure why Doogie thought he fought in San Fran (If I missed something or he was confused with Midget?), but that just means we have a bit of a wider area (1930s to whenever we can confirm he was in San Fran) to find out when he moved.

The Giordano crime family was out of St. Louis. I thought it was a bit more likely that he grew up in the Philly area and was involved in organized crime with one of the local families, although perhaps the St. Louis Giordano was a relative (commonplace for this) - the man in Altlantic City-Philly during this time was Angelo Bruno (not his real last name). I also thought perhaps he was an informant? I reread a post by Doogie that made me think the the govt knew his records were up and perhaps they were covering up, but I wasnt really sure.

I started a file with all the anthony giordanos I could find born between 1897-1907 (to keep him in his 60s) and really, there are only a handful of possibilities so far. I will forward you the list, HoT, and perhaps we can compare notes. I might not get to it until later tonight.

 

[HeartofTexas]

MB, these are the 8 that I found on the SSDI that show up as having died that are from PA. I don't have a clue how many there are that were born but are not showing up on the SSDI because so far my efforts to trace them are very confusing.

Anthony Giordano 26 Dec 1904 Aug 1971 Old Forge, Lackawanna, Pa

Anthony Giordano 23 Jun 1903 Sep 1976 Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsy

Anthony P. Giordano 13 Jun 1906 3 Jan 1995 Walnut, Los Angeles, California

Anthony Giordano 9 Mar 1902 Aug 1984 Upper Darby, Delaware, PA

Anthony Giordano 10 Nov 1901 Jul 1978 Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pa

Anthony Giordano 10 Dec 1907 Jul 1952

Anthony Giordano 28 Jun 1902 Feb 1978 Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pa

Anthony Giordano 2 Nov 1906 Sep 1972 Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pa

 

[HeartofTexas]

I forgot to mention, MB, that I did realize the Giordano crime family was out of St. Louis, but it would be my opinion that they started out on the East Coast and then moved on to St. Louis. So I would guess there was at least one part of the crime family (whether directly or via cousins, etc.) that was in NY, and another part in Pennsylvania, etc. I could definitely be wrong, however, because all I know about organized crime could fit in a thimble. What I do know is that it's hard to trace this family, or this name!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

HoT,

I wasnt really sure why Doogie thought he fought in San Fran (If I missed something or he was confused with Midget?), but that just means we have a bit of a wider area (1930s to whenever we can confirm he was in San Fran) to find out when he moved.

Here is the record of the Philly BW:
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=010077

Here is the record of the SF BW:
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=312799

The the last fight by Philly BW was 11/26 at 122 pounds. The only fight for SF BW was 4/40 (13.5 years later) at about 146 lbs. A twenty-four pound weight gain does not seem out of the question in 13+ years (especially if he had been out of training). Also remember that the 146 pound weight limit for welterweight is a maximum - someone could fight as a welterweight and be any weight less than the 146 lbs.

 

[HeartofTexas]

FWIW, it appears that the Giordano family was not active in organized crime in St. Louis until the 50's and was originally from New Orleans.

From the late 1950s to the early 1980s, three men shared prominent roles in the St. Louis underworld; Anthony G. Giordano, John J. Vitale, and James A. “Jimmy” Michaels.
Anthony Giordano was born June 2, 1914 in St. Louis. His police record began in 1938. His more than fifty arrests included charges of carrying concealed weapons, robbery, holdups, income tax evasion, and counterfeiting tax stamps. Giordano was groomed for his rise to the top by his predecessor, Anthony Lopiparo, along with Frank Coppola and Ralph Caleca. The latter two were one-time members of the Green Ones gang.

If nothing else, Doogie, searching for Anna has certainly broadened my areas of expertise into areas I would never have willingly gone on my own!

http://www.americanmafia.com/Cities/St_Louis.html

 

[HeartofTexas]

I thought I would put this case here so that we can all be encouraged by the fact that 30 year old abductions can still be solved:

Woman Kidnapped As Toddler in '76 Found



A woman whose father was charged with kidnapping her as a child 30 years ago has been found living in Arizona, her mother and sheriff's officials said.

On Mother's Day weekend in 1976, Laura Gooder's estranged husband, Eric Douglas Nielsen, picked up 21-month-old Genevieve Rachel Nielsen for an overnight visit. They never returned.

This Mother's Day weekend, a police officer arrived Saturday at Gooder's home in Frederic, Mich., with news that her daughter _ now 31 _ had been found, The Detroit News reported.

Gooder's daughter had been raised under another name and grew up believing her mother had been killed in an auto accident. Law enforcement officials declined to release her other name.

"It is pretty surreal," Gooder, 53, said. "I am keeping my fingers crossed and waiting for her to call."

On Sunday, Gooder told The Associated Press that she didn't want to speak about the case until she hears from her daughter.

Eric Nielsen was incarcerated in Arizona under a different identity on an unrelated charge, authorities said. A tip led investigators to visit an Arizona prison Thursday, said Michael Bouchard, sheriff in Michigan's Oakland County. Gooder's daughter, who now has a child of her own, was traumatized by the revelations, Bouchard said.

She's listed in the missing files as Genevieve Nielsen, abducted in 1976 from Michigan.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/14/D8HJMF9O0.html

 

[SherlockJr]

Thanks for the story HoT. What a Mothers Day gift she received! I want to wish all a Happy Mothers Day and especially to you, Annasmom.

 

[Annasmom]

Thanks for the story HoT. What a Mothers Day gift she received! I want to wish all a Happy Mothers Day and especially to you, Annasmom.

Sherlock, thank you. Curiously, today I had to play in a recital 14 miles south of here, in a canyon next to Purisima. I decided to come home the long way and drove by the farm where Anna disappeared. It was a peaceful day, balmy and beautiful, and I thought of the happy times we had on the farm.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

MB, these are the 8 that I found on the SSDI that show up as having died that are from PA. I don't have a clue how many there are that were born but are not showing up on the SSDI because so far my efforts to trace them are very confusing.

Just because any BW or AG's show up on the SSDI, we should not immediately dismiss them. At some point, our guy became "George Brody". It is possible that some shenannigans occured where his previous personna "died" and Brody was "born". I am curious about the listing for the AG who was born 1907 and "died" 1952. This "death" occurs in the window of when "Brody" appears.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Doogie, I haven't dismissed any of them for any reason. I'm just trying to track them, which so far I have found all but impossible.

Also, I once again wrote to the owner of the Philly Boxing Site requesting DOB and/or date of death info on Bobby Wolgast and here's the reply I got today:

I am sorry but I don't have the dates of Wolgast's birth and death available. If I run across them I will send them to you.

I find the above statement to be encouraging as it adds a cloud of mystery to Wolgast's birth and death.

Also, I mistakenly put the above information on another of Anna's threads, so I apologize in advance for having it in two places.

 

[mfmangel1]

I have searched high and low for a Bobby Wolgast autograph to compare to GB's autographed portrait....I have had absolutely no luck....Sorry.

Also, no luck on rootsweb family message boards regarding anyone searching for Giordano/boxer Wolgast or Margaret.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie, I haven't dismissed any of them for any reason. I'm just trying to track them, which so far I have found all but impossible.

Also, I once again wrote to the owner of the Philly Boxing Site requesting DOB and/or date of death info on Bobby Wolgast and here's the reply I got today:


I find the above statement to be encouraging as it adds a cloud of mystery to Wolgast's birth and death.

Also, I mistakenly put the above information on another of Anna's threads, so I apologize in advance for having it in two places.

Local boxing associations quite often will have dinners for retired boxers who come back and reminense with their peers. Does this Philly group have any record of Wolgast ever attending any of those functions and if so, when? HoT, you may want to ask your boxing connection that question, since you are now our boxing expert - LOL!

 

[rideforfun]

I'm praying hard that this boxing research will help us determine more about George Brody. I was blown away when someone posted a reference to a boxer George Brody (although different spelling). Most people who change their name base it on something so I find it very significant that the name can be traced to boxing.

Great work. Every step brings us closer.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I have revised the letter that I am sending out to possible relatives of Margaret Kukoda to include that Brody claimed to be a boxer and that she referred to him as "Bobby". My hope is that one of her relatives will write back and make the link between Brody and Wolgast. If this turns out to be true, we will know that we are on the right track.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I decided to see if anyone else was looking for a lost wolgast or giordano (if he moved and changed his name, perhaps he also lost contact with his relatives). Didnt find anything of note, although if we decide wolgast is brody (and hence giordano), there is already so much on the message boards, we might be also to post some messages there and see if anyone who already did the research can help us out?

I found the following genealogical site for Giordanos that might be helpful if you were not already aware of it:

http://genforum.genealogy.com/giordano/

 

[Annasmom]

Do we have any pictures of Margaret? I found an old yearbook picture, but I dont have anything to compare it to...

Doogie, you sent me a photo of Margaret from a newspaper article. I had it, but can't find it now. Maybe, when you have time (sure!), you can scan the photo without the article and post it for us. I think she was a nurse at Letterman, which is or was a military hospital, but I can't remember whether she actually was in the military.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I have no idea if I'm on the right track or not because my mind is still dizzy from wading thru all of the Anthony Giordano's in the world, BUT I may have narrowed it down to one family.

On the 1910 Pennsylvania Miracode Index, there are only two Giordano families that have a son named Anthony, and both of them are age 3. One of the families (parents are Pasquale and Amelia Giordano) later moved to New Jersey by the time Anthony would have been fighting, so I've eliminated them.

That leaves me with the family of Fred and Clementine Giordano who continued to live in Philly (at 1003 Tenth Street) thru the 1930 Federal Census. By the time of the 1920 Census, Fred had already died. Fred and Clementine had 7 children: Mary, Peter, Frank, Josephine, Anthony, Louise and Teresa. Most continued to live at home thru the 1930 Census, probably because times were hard during the Depression.

So, that's pretty much all I've been able to find. The only thing that makes me question if the above Giordano family is our Anthony's family is the fact that Anthony is listed as a tailor for his occupation, and not a boxer. However, since his last fight in Philly was in 1927, I suppose he could have changed careers in order to help earn money for the family during the Depression.

I did find a message on Ancestry.com for someone searching for Josephine, but I can't tell if it's the same Josephine. The interesting thing, though, is that it traces her to Missouri in the 1950's, which is the timeframe for when the Giordano crime family became active in the St. Louis area. OTOH, this could be totally unrelated and is probably a much younger Josephine than our's would be (our's was born in approximately 1905).

I am looking for any information on Josephine Giordano (maiden name) who attended Lindsey Hopkins Vocational School in Miami Florida in 1952-54. I am a classmate of hers and would love to get in touch. She married in 1954 and moved to StCloud Missouri, I think, not sure of the place and do not know the married name. Any help would be greatly appreciated

I'm continuing to search for the ever-illusive Anthony Giordano/Bobby Wolgast/George Brody.