Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody and/or Associates

[mysteriew]

There was no note, but the hotel manager told Joe Ford there were some papers with writing indicating that GW felt guilty.

Do you know what happened to those papers?

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Do you know what happened to those papers?

There are volumes of writings dictated by Brody and transcribed by Waters dealing with all sorts of philosophical issues (guilt among them) in the Box from Hell. There even is a series of "flow-charts" that I guess to be the summarization of Brody's beliefs. And of course, they are absolute drivel that cannot be fathomed by anyone but a crazy man. It may be some of this material that the hotel manager was refering to.

 

[SherlockJr]

There even is a series of "flow-charts" that I guess to be the summarization of Brody's beliefs. And of course, they are absolute drivel that cannot be fathomed by anyone but a crazy man. It may be some of this material that the hotel manager was refering to.

Doogie, go ahead and scan them. I'm feeling crazy enough by now, although I'm not a man. :doh:

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I'll post them tonight when I get home.

 

[mysteriew]

Dr. D., just putting myself in the manager's shoes, he notes problems in the room that necessitates him going into the room. He finds the body and calls the police. He may make note of something like a letter laying out or something like that, but I don't see him going through papers and trying to analyze them.
Likewise the police showing showing up at the scene, would probably deal with the body and gather up any evidence but not spend a lot of time on it at the scene. They may have told the manager something later, but police are well known for not giving out too many details after a suicide. Likewise, if it seems pretty clear cut as a suicide, they don't spend a whole lot of time analysing the paperwork.
From the way the manager spoke, I think maybe there was a paper, not a suicide note exactly as it probably wasn't addressed. But some kind of note. The way it sounds, he seems to be talking about something specific. I am just wondering if the police report mentioned this paperwork.

 

[Annasmom]

Dr. D., just putting myself in the manager's shoes, he notes problems in the room that necessitates him going into the room. He finds the body and calls the police. He may make note of something like a letter laying out or something like that, but I don't see him going through papers and trying to analyze them.
Likewise the police showing showing up at the scene, would probably deal with the body and gather up any evidence but not spend a lot of time on it at the scene. They may have told the manager something later, but police are well known for not giving out too many details after a suicide. Likewise, if it seems pretty clear cut as a suicide, they don't spend a whole lot of time analysing the paperwork.
From the way the manager spoke, I think maybe there was a paper, not a suicide note exactly as it probably wasn't addressed. But some kind of note. The way it sounds, he seems to be talking about something specific. I am just wondering if the police report mentioned this paperwork.

The best source of information on this subject would be Joe Ford, who actually interviewed the manager in person and asked him about what was found in the room. Doogie has a transcript of this interview, but JF might remember other things about it.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I will post the transcripts of this portion of the interview tonight.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I don't recall if this has been discussed before, but it sounds like GB was also schizophrenic... defintely paranoid. Someone told me once that there are countless types of schizophrenia and the illness manifests itself differently in each person. Some are high functioning (as GW appeared to be) and some aren't. If we know for fact that GB wasn't schizophrenic, I wonder if there's any chance he had PTSD from being in the war? I've checked a lot of the war records looking for him but GB is a very popular name! And without knowing his real DOB, it's pretty hard to pinpoint him on any of the lists. He definitely sounds like a quirky old fool, though, no matter what caused his problems.

 

[laini]

What was the name of the hotel the Georges stayed at, where they had two rooms and then a third room at the time of Anna's disappearance? I can't seem to find it.

 

[mbroemsen]

Just a quick note - last night while I was looking around I found what appears to be links to Synanon and some research at Berkley in 1956 that had to do with LSD and schizophrenia. Its above me, but I downloaded the file. If anyone wants to take a crack at it, let me know.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

What was the name of the hotel the Georges stayed at, where they had two rooms and then a third room at the time of Anna's disappearance? I can't seem to find it.

I will have to look up and confirm the names. The two rooms and the primary residence of the two was at 630 Geary Street. The third room (and Brody's previous residence) was 1156 Sutter Street (I believe that it was called the Otis Hotel, but it has since renovated and has a new name - all of the previous residents were evicted).

 

[mbroemsen]

I don't recall if this has been discussed before, but it sounds like GB was also schizophrenic... defintely paranoid. Someone told me once that there are countless types of schizophrenia and the illness manifests itself differently in each person. Some are high functioning (as GW appeared to be) and some aren't. If we know for fact that GB wasn't schizophrenic, I wonder if there's any chance he had PTSD from being in the war? I've checked a lot of the war records looking for him but GB is a very popular name! And without knowing his real DOB, it's pretty hard to pinpoint him on any of the lists. He definitely sounds like a quirky old fool, though, no matter what caused his problems.

Hi HoT, I sent you a private mesage with the name / info of a Brody it might be worth looking into. I'm interested to see what you can find, I am stuck

 

[Annasmom]

What was the name of the hotel the Georges stayed at, where they had two rooms and then a third room at the time of Anna's disappearance? I can't seem to find it.

It was the Abby or Abbey Hotel in San Francisco (the name has since been changed, I believe.)

 

[HeartofTexas]

Here's what I found re 650 Geary... not sure if it matches what was said above, unless it turned into a hotel for a bit in between being a theatre. If you go to the link, it has a picture of it, so maybe that will help on identifying if it's the hotel you're talking about.

The photo at the Noe Hill web site, linked above by TC on Sep 27, 2005, depicts a different Alcazar Theatre, at 650 Geary Street, built in 1917 as a Shriner's temple, designed by architect T. Patterson Ross. Some time after the O'Farrell Street Alcazar was demolished, the former Islam Temple on Geary Street became a legitimate theatre and took on the name Alcazar. I have no information on whether or not the Geary Street Alcazar has ever been used as a movie theatre, but as of 2006 it is still in operation as a live theatre.

http://cinematreasures.org/theater/3126_0_2_0_C/

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Here's what I found re 650 Geary... not sure if it matches what was said above, unless it turned into a hotel for a bit in between being a theatre. If you go to the link, it has a picture of it, so maybe that will help on identifying if it's the hotel you're talking about.


[url="http://cinematreasures.org/theater/3126_0_2_0_C/"]http://cinematreasures.org/theater/3126_0_2_0_C/[/url]

Oops. Maybe I have the address wrong. I will check my notes when I get home. It may be 630 Geary.

 

[mbroemsen]

Try looking for 630 Geary Street....

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Try looking for 630 Geary Street....

Ya' beat me to it as I was editing my post!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

After some hard work and clever sleuthing by [email protected], it appears that there has been no activity on Margaret Kukoda's social security number during the last twenty years. We do not have an answer as to why the name on that SSN was coming up as Kay Kukoda, but absent any activity, it becomes a moot point - the card does not appear to have been used to provide Anna with a SSN.

I also was able to find out that a SSN was not required for minors who were not employed until 1988. Anna would have graduated high school in either 1985 or 1986, so she could have gone her entire education without a SSN.

This is not a setback - all it means is that one possible means of locating her turned out to be not fruitful. There are other lines of investigation occuring that may lead us to Anna. As always, we search on...

 

[mfmangel1]

I have been looking into the thoroughness of the SSDI and it appears to not be "all-inclusive". It only does include those who were reported dead to the SSA. This is why both Brody and Waters are not listed there either.

If the lack of Margaret's inclusion on the SSDI was the only issue, I could dismiss it as not suspicious, but when you factor in the incorrect first name attached to the number, it raises my eyebrows quite a bit (which is not a pretty sight). If anyone has ideas or suggestions on how to obtain the activity records of this SSN, please let me know.

LOL regarding the accuracy of the SSDI site....It shows my Dad never existed although he died when I was a little girl and I received monthly survivor benefits under his social security # for years!!!!

 

[HeartofTexas]

Great work, mbroemsen (I may have to call you MB to shorten that!), on finding out there's been no activity on Margaret's SS# for the past 20 years. Disappointing, but great work on your part.

And now, we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and once again move forward.