Theory: EJ gave Gabe to someone she entrusted who has him in hiding

[Prof]

To play devils advocate, I can see EJ going to the trouble of making these people seem to exist for her own purpose. She is very intelligent and could have been leaving a false trail for her own protection. I hope that's not what she did but as time goes on it gets more discouraging. You wouldn't think one person could cover their tracks so well but EJ seems to have done that.

I suppose the journal entries could be bogus, but I am not convinced
And I am not sure where EJ's intelligence might register, or which scale it might be measured by; evidently she has some "book smarts" as she allegedly had an academic scholarship--

I am not convinced of her savvy in covering her trail, as not only did she call from a phone that identified her in San Antonio, she was found in Florida a couple of days after LE were involved in the case, through phone records and/or MS postings--

She also evidently did not know that texting that she murdered her baby would get her in more legal trouble than she was already in -- does a girl covering her trail typically wave such an ominous flag --cruelly taunting the person on her trail, who not only has LE in the family, someone who has already alerted the court system to her?

If she left a false trail in San Antonio intentionally, why not do the same in Florida?

I guess either I am confused by or simply not convinced of this girl's intelligence, probably because all of her decision making seem guided by emotion rather than clear thinking
She certainly lacks emotional intelligence

 

[Prof]

This supposed "couple" could be fanatics. But what about EJ?? She seems to be a selfish type, and she seems to dislike jail more and more... and she would rather die herself than giveup Gabe? Why? To protect Gabe from Logan or custody disputes?? I don't think she's that selfless or loving to give her life to protect Gabe... To spite Logan?? I think hating Logan may be a 2nd priority when it comes to her own life (she claims she's going to die soon right from starvation), or her own freedom (20+ yrs in jail). The fact that she is not talking is the key concern that makes me think she hurt Gabe. Otherwise, she'd talk by now out of pure selfishness to save herself, if it means betraying this couple, Tammi Smith, Gabriel or her own relatives, so be it. That's why I don't think this "couple" exists.

I see it more like a child's refusal, stubborn, emotional-- a tantrum to the extreme as she is not getting what she wanted. I think EJ has probably developed this emotional way of dealing with her world through her background.I would not be surprised if she has threatened suicide throughout her years, and suicide is the ultimate selfish act. It is also good way to hurt Logan (in her own mind) as she would not eventually be made to crack and talk. She worried about being able to change her mind if she had given Gabriel to a couple (Smiths) she knew, or knew how to contact.
She is of the belief that it is Logan who "ruined her life" She believed her life was ruined before she left with Gabriel. I see her thinking like a child, and this stunt in jail is her dramatic and childish way of making Logan sorry
All IMO of course

She might not be protecting this third party -- she might be selfishly, stubbornly protecting her own will and wishes

 

[artsy1]

IMHO, I don't think EJ left a false trail in San Antonio - I don't think in the mental state she was in at the time that she could have thought through a plan of leaving false leads in a journal - especially if a 3rd party recognized her state and set up the transfer of Gabe because they didn't trust EJ to do it. I believe that EJ DID gave Gabe to a couple that a trusted 3rd party told her to. And I think the journal is legit - I believe that she kept it because she wasn't sure she could trust the couple that the 3rd party set up for her. And I think that shows that she IS a smart girl, even if she is emotionally unstable.

I know for a fact that extremely intelligent people can do very foolish and irrational things if they have emotional problems. Depression itself can cloud a person's judgement - and from everything I've heard said about EJ, I believe she has probably suffered from depression for a very long time. Doesn't mean they aren't smart or intelligent - just means there is a chemical imbalance in the brain that distorts their judgement.

If TPS DID set up the couple for EJ to give Gabe to, I would suspect that they may be as fanatical about doing "God's will" as TPS. Look at all the things TPS thinks that she can skate on by claiming she was doing His will. If she got a like-minded couple involved, they may not believe that they are doing anything illegal, because God's laws top man's.

However, to the couple who have Gabe, if that is your belief, then you know that one of His Commandments to us is THOU SHALT NOT STEAL. You have stolen Gabe from his father who loves him and the family who wants him returned. So you MUST return Gabe, because that IS God's will, not just man's!

*stepping down off my soap box now to get coffee* :angel:

 

[TXHOPE]

She might not be protecting this third party -- she might be selfishly, stubbornly protecting her own will and wishes

I agree and I also think she knows she doesn't have any proof as TS clearly pointed out to her. Before when she planned on giving Gabriel up for adoption to the Smiths she didn't even want to know where they lived, where her child was going to live. She wanted 0 connection to Gabe. I think, by choice, she didn't want to know any details of the couple and for that she now could easily take the wrap or get the needle as TS threatened. I think she knows who the 3rd party is but it's her word against theirs and she has no idea who the couple is or where they came from or where Gabriel is for that matter. According to Gamble she has made full admissions to LE-to me that means she's talked but there's not any proof that connects the 3rd party as of now. JMO

 

[jessicat]

I also need to add if TS is so in love with Gabe and was as concerned about him as she claimed then why do we not or have we not seen her really coming forth searching,etc. At least not to my knowledge she hasn't. It makes me believe even more she has something to do with hiding him. She just doesn't seem like she is worried about his safety all that much. There are more people on FB more concerned and doing more to find him..

 

[kappy50]

I also need to add if TS is so in love with Gabe and was as concerned about him as she claimed then why do we not or have we not seen her really coming forth searching,etc. At least not to my knowledge she hasn't. It makes me believe even more she has something to do with hiding him. She just doesn't seem like she is worried about his safety all that much. There are more people on FB more concerned and doing more to find him..

jess...I was just thinking the same thing this morning after looking at that interview she did coming out of the jail...and she said she was going to search everyday or something like that until she found Gabriel...

 

[artsy1]

I also need to add if TS is so in love with Gabe and was as concerned about him as she claimed then why do we not or have we not seen her really coming forth searching,etc. At least not to my knowledge she hasn't. It makes me believe even more she has something to do with hiding him. She just doesn't seem like she is worried about his safety all that much. There are more people on FB more concerned and doing more to find him..

IMHO, I think the reason she doesn't seem worried is that SHE set up the couple who took Gabe. She knows WHO has them, although maybe not where they are right now since it was only supposed to be a temporary arrangement since Gabe was supposed to be brought back to HER, but has dragged on longer than expected.

As I've said before, go back and look at all of TS's interviews she's done from the beginning. Everytime whoever is interviewing her says that no one knows where Gabe is, TS gets a smirk on her face. To me, that means SHE KNOWS who has him, and that's why she's not worried. :doh:

 

[tmiles]

This supposed "couple" could be fanatics. But what about EJ?? She seems to be a selfish type, and she seems to dislike jail more and more... and she would rather die herself than giveup Gabe? Why? To protect Gabe from Logan or custody disputes?? I don't think she's that selfless or loving to give her life to protect Gabe... To spite Logan?? I think hating Logan may be a 2nd priority when it comes to her own life (she claims she's going to die soon right from starvation), or her own freedom (20+ yrs in jail). The fact that she is not talking is the key concern that makes me think she hurt Gabe. Otherwise, she'd talk by now out of pure selfishness to save herself, if it means betraying this couple, Tammi Smith, Gabriel or her own relatives, so be it. That's why I don't think this "couple" exists.

I'm not so sure that EJ isn't talking. KG the PI indicated she was cooperating fully with LE, didn't he? Why would he say that if it weren't true. I think she's talking. Unfortunately, the only thing she can probably give up is who the 3rd party was and what the plan initially was. She would no way know where Gabe is now or even who the couple was. She may not have any hard evidence to back up her claim of who the 3rd party is and perhaps that is why nothing has been acted on yet. Maybe that has something to do with the information that KG said they were still trying to subpoena. LM said in an interview that they pretty much knew who it was. They just need more proof and they are waiting for that to come in before they act on anything.

 

[BeanE]

I'm not so sure that EJ isn't talking. KG the PI indicated she was cooperating fully with LE, didn't he? Why would he say that if it weren't true. I think she's talking. Unfortunately, the only thing she can probably give up is who the 3rd party was and what the plan initially was. She would no way know where Gabe is now or even who the couple was. She may not have any hard evidence to back up her claim of who the 3rd party is and perhaps that is why nothing has been acted on yet. Maybe that has something to do with the information that KG said they were still trying to subpoena. LM said in an interview that they pretty much knew who it was. They just need more proof and they are waiting for that to come in before they act on anything.

Welcome to Websleuths, tmiles! Good to have you here.

If you listen to her jail interview with the reporter, she says she talked to the FBI, and if you look in the LE documents (Important Links thread at top of Gabe's forum), LE says she talked to them on her arrest. That could be what he's referring to.

Wherever the info came from, I agree that there's likely no concrete evidence of who the 3rd party is (can verify a phone call took place but not what was talked about), and that there's nothing but a physical description for the couple (needed code word to identify them).

I think Ken is looking for concrete proof in the subpoenas and elsewhere, but he's not waiting for it in order to act. I think they do pretty much know who the 3rd party is, and finding Gabe is all that's needed to prove both the couple and the 3rd party. LE is looking too.

What we can do to help is to take who we think the 3rd party is, and try to identify one or both members of the couple based on that, and send those leads into LE and to the family who will give them to Ken at [email protected]

 

[tmiles]

Welcome to Websleuths, tmiles! Good to have you here.

If you listen to her jail interview with the reporter, she says she talked to the FBI, and if you look in the LE documents (Important Links thread at top of Gabe's forum), LE says she talked to them on her arrest. That could be what he's referring to.

Wherever the info came from, I agree that there's likely no concrete evidence of who the 3rd party is (can verify a phone call took place but not what was talked about), and that there's nothing but a physical description for the couple (needed code word to identify them).

I think Ken is looking for concrete proof in the subpoenas and elsewhere, but he's not waiting for it in order to act. I think they do pretty much know who the 3rd party is, and finding Gabe is all that's needed to prove both the couple and the 3rd party. LE is looking too.

What we can do to help is to take who we think the 3rd party is, and try to identify one or both members of the couple based on that, and send those leads into LE and to the family who will give them to Ken at [email protected]

Thanks, BeanE. I have spent alot of time reading through the information on this site and have found it very interesting. There are a lot of people with some good ideas. I wish I had more time to really dig in and search for evidence so I could do more than just voice my opinion. I would love to help bring Gabriel home.

 

[noopy]

I'm not so sure that EJ isn't talking. KG the PI indicated she was cooperating fully with LE, didn't he? Why would he say that if it weren't true. I think she's talking. Unfortunately, the only thing she can probably give up is who the 3rd party was and what the plan initially was. She would no way know where Gabe is now or even who the couple was. She may not have any hard evidence to back up her claim of who the 3rd party is and perhaps that is why nothing has been acted on yet. Maybe that has something to do with the information that KG said they were still trying to subpoena. LM said in an interview that they pretty much knew who it was. They just need more proof and they are waiting for that to come in before they act on anything.

I have read EJ made full admissions... but since those admissions of hers have not lead to Gabriel after 4 months, how do we know these admissions are even true? It could be an elaborate story she has come up to cover up her original text to Logan. She may not know where this couple is, but she must know the 3rd party, or at least be able to give some info about this 3rd party and they would be brought in for questioning? Or maybe LE just hasn't released that info, IDK...

I remember Logan saying they pretty much knew who it was, if so, then where is she/he and where is Gabriel? Why has the case stalled? Why then in Logan's subsequent interview (with Mark Palmer) did he seem so down and unsure of what happened? And why is LE still leaning towards a homicide IF Logan already knows WHO set this up?

In court, EJ has taken the 5th whenever she was questioned about Gabe. To me she isn't really cooperating... yeah she's made some admission, but who knows if it's BS or not because it's been useless thus far.

 

[BeanE]

I have read EJ made full admissions... but since those admissions of hers have not lead to Gabriel after 4 months, how do we know these admissions are even true? It could be an elaborate story she has come up to cover up her original text to Logan. She may not know where this couple is, but she must know the 3rd party, or at least be able to give some info about this 3rd party and they would be brought in for questioning? Or maybe LE just hasn't released that info, IDK...

I remember Logan saying they pretty much knew who it was, if so, then where is she/he and where is Gabriel? Why has the case stalled? Why then in Logan's subsequent interview (with Mark Palmer) did he seem so down and unsure of what happened? And why is LE still leaning towards a homicide IF Logan already knows WHO set this up?

In court, EJ has taken the 5th whenever she was questioned about Gabe. To me she isn't really cooperating... yeah she's made some admission, but who knows if it's BS or not because it's been useless thus far.

- We don't know if Elizabeths admissions are true, because it has not been released whether something has been found to prove them. Ken has said he has found information that supports her story. We can do one of two things: trust him and look for Gabe and try to rescue him, or throw up our hands and say "Oh well, Gabe is probably dead." and turn our back on him. Which are you going to do?

- I agree: I don't think Elizabeth knows identifying information for the couple, but I think she does certainly know who the third party is, and obviously that name isn't being released, and isn't being released for good reasons. I do think that quite a bit of work is being done though. I see in a lot of cases where people expect LE (and PIs) to release all info, and/or, people thinking that the only info that exists is what has been released. I don't understand that. And I can tell you for an absolute fact that in Gabe's case, there is much more info that has not been released because I have personal knowledge of it, and on top of that I know there is even more info that I am not permitted knowledge of, and on top of that there is even more info that even the family is not permitted knowledge is. Nothing special about all that - it's how it is in every case.

- Sorry, I can't follow you that pretty much knowing who it is equates to running down the road and picking up Gabe. He's being hidden. You know, hidden?

- Logan was down in that interview for two reasons - 1) his baby is missing and he doesn't know if he's alive, safe, healthy, hurt, suffering, hungry, sick, dead, etc, and that tends to get a parent down, ya know?, and 2) the two year anniversary of Logan's mom's death was approaching and he misses her and needs her here to help him through this.

- Logan's not unsure of what happened. The reporter asked him something about illegal adoption, and he said they're leaning away from that. He was probably as surprised as I was at the reporter's question because Ken had announced weeks before that illegal adoption was off the table. I'd be taken aback myself and disappointed that the reporter didn't do her homework so she could help me keep the current info in front of the public. I mean, look what happened - some people who aren't following the case closely got the idea that there was some kind of change when there wasn't.

- LE is currently following leads and looking for an alive Gabe. I don't follow you that pretty much knowing who the third party is instantly gives LE the address to go pick up Gabe?

- I disagree that the information Elizabeth has given has been completely useless. Yes, it would be nice if she'd rattle off the exact address where Gabe is, but her inability to do so doesn't make all the info she's given useless.


HTH

 

[TXHOPE]

Snipped transcribed interview with Ken Gamble:

Reporter: Is she saying she gave the baby to another couple now? Or no?

Ken Gamble: Yeah, she is yeah.

Reporter: She just not saying who, names or anything like that?

Ken Gamble: She has made full admissions to the police and at this stage some of those, some of that information we can’t discuss because it’s still under investigation, but she has made full admissions.

The reporter specifically asks "names or anything like that?" and that is when Ken Gamble states that she has made full admissions. So I'm reading this as she has named the 3rd party??? I don't think she knows the couple's real name. Maybe he's referring to the code name the couple used?? If she did name the 3rd party that would explain the-we can't discuss because it's still under investigation. If she's named the 3rd party maybe they are waiting on the subpoened records to prove the third party connection.

 

[Aedrys]

To play devils advocate, I can see EJ going to the trouble of making these people seem to exist for her own purpose. She is very intelligent and could have been leaving a false trail for her own protection. I hope that's not what she did but as time goes on it gets more discouraging. You wouldn't think one person could cover their tracks so well but EJ seems to have done that.

Hi, I'm new to this thread. I post mainly on the Caylee case, but something is bothering me about this case.

Maybe there is couple that was set to get Gabriel and is being protected by TPS. But maybe EJ didn't go through with it? Maybe at the last minute she decided she couldn't trust anyone and murdered this child? But maybe she lied to TPS, and so therefore TPS still believes Gabriel is somewhere and she might get him in the future if she doesn't tattle on EJ? It's like it's one big game, so reminiscent of the Casey case...

I just can't believe he'd be gone this long and no one has come forward to say they have him. With no obvious abuse to EJ, no obvious abuse to Gabriel (I'm thinking she was nervous because if that doctor did check the baby out, he or she probably found nothing wrong with him) and only her WORD about Logan? I don't even see any fanatics going along with this. I would think it would take more than words for someone to want to hide this kid.

Maybe it's because I've followed Casey's case for so long, but this girl seems to mimic her in a lot of ways. It's like I'm seeing Cindy and Casey all over again but with better tactics this time. Maybe I'm just too cynical because of that case, I don't know. I think maybe she learned a few things from Casey and is just hiding it better (i.e. no car with a stained trunk, etc). And apparently has more luck on her side as well.

I ferverently hope that Gabriel is still alive, but I am not going to be surprised if he isn't.

I also haven't read all of the documentation and threads for this case yet, so forgive me if I get things wrong and correct me if I do.

 

[danisisa]

Hi, I'm new to this thread. I post mainly on the Caylee case, but something is bothering me about this case.

Maybe there is couple that was set to get Gabriel and is being protected by TPS. But maybe EJ didn't go through with it? Maybe at the last minute she decided she couldn't trust anyone and murdered this child? But maybe she lied to TPS, and so therefore TPS still believes Gabriel is somewhere and she might get him in the future if she doesn't tattle on EJ? It's like it's one big game, so reminiscent of the Casey case...

I just can't believe he'd be gone this long and no one has come forward to say they have him. With no obvious abuse to EJ, no obvious abuse to Gabriel (I'm thinking she was nervous because if that doctor did check the baby out, he or she probably found nothing wrong with him) and only her WORD about Logan? I don't even see any fanatics going along with this. I would think it would take more than words for someone to want to hide this kid.

Maybe it's because I've followed Casey's case for so long, but this girl seems to mimic her in a lot of ways. It's like I'm seeing Cindy and Casey all over again but with better tactics this time. Maybe I'm just too cynical because of that case, I don't know. I think maybe she learned a few things from Casey and is just hiding it better (i.e. no car with a stained trunk, etc). And apparently has more luck on her side as well.

I ferverently hope that Gabriel is still alive, but I am not going to be surprised if he isn't.

I also haven't read all of the documentation and threads for this case yet, so forgive me if I get things wrong and correct me if I do.

There are huge differences in the aspects of this case. We have a person desperately trying to adopt a child and a father unwilling (can you blame him) to sign over his parental rights. We have a mother who drove a long distance to accomplish giving her child up for adoption who kept in contact with that party. Plans went awry because the custodial case did not start in Texas, therefore, LM's parental rights could not be waived. We have a journal or some type of daily planner that outlines the mothers plans. Therefore it is believed and I believe G is in hiding.

Now everyone gets to play a waiting game until G is found because obviously the people who have in hiding are so selfish that they do not think about the psychological effects they are putting G through. They are robbing him and his family of these precious moments in his life. They are not thinking in the best interest of G. How people can be this way is beyond me. God taught us to be selfless and to think of others first. Nothing would be more great if these people would return him and guaranteed they will feel a relief knowing they did the right thing. Doing something wrong does not make one feel good inside. I like to feel good and know I am doing good to others. Life is easier that way.

 

[noopy]

- We don't know if Elizabeths admissions are true, because it has not been released whether something has been found to prove them. Ken has said he has found information that supports her story. We can do one of two things: trust him and look for Gabe and try to rescue him, or throw up our hands and say "Oh well, Gabe is probably dead." and turn our back on him. Which are you going to do?

- I agree: I don't think Elizabeth knows identifying information for the couple, but I think she does certainly know who the third party is, and obviously that name isn't being released, and isn't being released for good reasons. I do think that quite a bit of work is being done though. I see in a lot of cases where people expect LE (and PIs) to release all info, and/or, people thinking that the only info that exists is what has been released. I don't understand that. And I can tell you for an absolute fact that in Gabe's case, there is much more info that has not been released because I have personal knowledge of it, and on top of that I know there is even more info that I am not permitted knowledge of, and on top of that there is even more info that even the family is not permitted knowledge is. Nothing special about all that - it's how it is in every case.

- Sorry, I can't follow you that pretty much knowing who it is equates to running down the road and picking up Gabe. He's being hidden. You know, hidden?

- Logan was down in that interview for two reasons - 1) his baby is missing and he doesn't know if he's alive, safe, healthy, hurt, suffering, hungry, sick, dead, etc, and that tends to get a parent down, ya know?, and 2) the two year anniversary of Logan's mom's death was approaching and he misses her and needs her here to help him through this.

- Logan's not unsure of what happened. The reporter asked him something about illegal adoption, and he said they're leaning away from that. He was probably as surprised as I was at the reporter's question because Ken had announced weeks before that illegal adoption was off the table. I'd be taken aback myself and disappointed that the reporter didn't do her homework so she could help me keep the current info in front of the public. I mean, look what happened - some people who aren't following the case closely got the idea that there was some kind of change when there wasn't.

- LE is currently following leads and looking for an alive Gabe. I don't follow you that pretty much knowing who the third party is instantly gives LE the address to go pick up Gabe?

- I disagree that the information Elizabeth has given has been completely useless. Yes, it would be nice if she'd rattle off the exact address where Gabe is, but her inability to do so doesn't make all the info she's given useless.


HTH

I certainly hope you are right BeanE, and I would be ecstatic if I am wrong. I have been praying for Gabe's safe return since January when I learned of the case. I have helped with spreading awareness and his trust. So, please do not think that I am just "giving up" on Gabe and on his search??? It's what I think happened, but of course I think LE needs to get to the bottom, whether it's kidnapping or homicide. I think Gabe needs justice whether he's alive or not. I think I should be entitled to think what happened, even tho it's not popular, but to me, the odds of a happy ending are dwindling given this amount of time has passed.

For a long time, I believed the elaboarate illegal adoption, hiding, the HG/TS/JS baby brokering, Six Flags handoff, and ALL that... But after 4 months, I am starting to think is all that just wishful thinking, is all that just way too complicated? Could the truth be simpler and in front of my eyes? IDK... :banghead:

 

[iluvmua]

What I'm really concerned about is why after 4 months NO witnesses have come forward yet? it's beyond time to think they'll get in trouble.

If this child is still alive, them i'm 100% certain that SOMEONE has seen him.

and why people are not coming forward after 4 months just boggles my mind.

There have been several billboards put up in Texas & Oregon, probably among other states as well and nobody will come forward.

 

[noopy]

//snipped//
There have been several billboards put up in Texas & Oregon, probably among other states as well and nobody will come forward.

I read on the FB site that the Lamar billboards are now nationwide.

 

[BeanE]

What I'm really concerned about is why after 4 months NO witnesses have come forward yet? it's beyond time to think they'll get in trouble.

If this child is still alive, them i'm 100% certain that SOMEONE has seen him.

and why people are not coming forward after 4 months just boggles my mind.

There have been several billboards put up in Texas & Oregon, probably among other states as well and nobody will come forward.

Beyond time to think they'll get in trouble? I'm not sure I understand. They're likely in fear of being charged with kidnapping.

You can easily hide a baby for months on end. There's no need to take them out of the house. You skip the medical checkups and shots, and treat illnesses and injuries at home. There are abused children who have been hidden at home for months, even years. You can order all the baby supplies you need online - nobody knows you're suddenly buying baby supplies.

Read through the cases in this forum where neighbors say they never knew the person even had a child, yet the child was living there for months or even years.

 

[TXHOPE]

I agree, the couple that has him knows that what they have done is illegal and that Gabriel is a missing child with national attention. I don't think they're going to parade him around town anytime soon. JMO