Through a Juror's Eyes/What do those who haven't followed the case believe? (Merged)

[twocuriouscats]

One observation that was huge for me was the full jailhouse phone call. I had heard parts (the most explosive) before, but the overall picture after hearing the whole call is that Casey is so twisted to be claiming that "everbody's worried about Caylee" and not me"...or similar.

The conversation with Lee was important. I wanted to see if this family had practised "denial" and other dysfunctions. Lee wasn't buying any of Casey's stories at that point.

One other thing:

I can't see how a person (Casey) can remain in denial when faced over and over with the true issue of "where is the baby?" Parents, police...in your face looking for that Baby - I would have cracked and told the truth. I would think at some point a "normal" or even "dysfunctionally raised" individual would have a heart. Now I'm starting to think we have a true case for murder.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I really thought about this lying in bed last night. Setting aside everything else and only focusing on what has come in so far through testimony and opening statements. I think personally, if I was on that jury now, these might be some of my thoughts:

- This girl is such an unbelievable liar. She lies so much and so often, and she doesn't seem to have any remorse about her lies. She is very, very calculating and very manipulative.

- I think the two most emotional moments for me thus far were Cindy's breakdown on the stand and ICA's response to Christina Chester's crying "if anything happens to that baby I'll die," with 'oh my God, calling you guys a waste, huge waste." Stone cold. Gave me chills.

- I found George believable. I think his love for his family and especially little Caylee really showed. I also believe he loved Casey very much. I have to reject Jose's opening statement theory that he was there when Caylee died and instructed ICA to lie about it and then never said a word to anyone ever. First of all, the man I saw on the stand who made sure Caylee brushed her teeth and washed her face in the morning would never have let her lie out there like that. Never. Second, I believe that if something like this had happened, GA would never have let it get to the point where ICA was charged with the death penalty. I don't buy it. Not to mention that this theory requires me to believe that ICA is now telling the truth and everyone else is lying and that is just not rational IMHO.

 

[krisskross]

One observation that was huge for me was the full jailhouse phone call. I had heard parts (the most explosive) before, but the overall picture after hearing the whole call is that Casey is so twisted to be claiming that "everbody's worried about Caylee" and not me"...or similar.

The conversation with Lee was important. I wanted to see if this family had practised "denial" and other dysfunctions. Lee wasn't buying any of Casey's stories at that point.

One other thing:

I can't see how a person (Casey) can remain in denial when faced over and over with the true issue of "where is the baby?" Parents,
police...in your face looking for that Baby - I would have cracked and told the truth. I would think at some point a "normal" or even "dysfunctionally raised" individual would have a heart. Now I'm starting to think we have a true case for murder.

ITA The elaborate lies told to Cindy took concious effort. They were strictly to buy time.

Sociopaths have one main deficit.........a concience. ICA is textbook, bordering on psycopathic imo.

From the start of this case I've always felt Caylee died because her mother just wasn't going to miss her date that night. Brandon Snow had it seems out and out rejected her, Riccardo didn't work out either, Tony wasnt going to go the same way.

ETA Five hours of jailhouse tapes are coming in. They tell a story of a cold, cruel, manipulative and extremely devious creature and I think they will convince the jury that George Anthony had nothing to do with covering up the death of his grandchild.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1pZP_ZpAg&feature=BFa&list=WL962C7860A8224220&index=14"]YouTube - ‪Casey Anthony Extended Visit Pt.1‬‏[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bFYexp2v0M&feature=related"]YouTube - ‪Casey Anthony Extended Visit Pt.2‬‏[/ame]

 

[stmarysmead]

If I were a juror conflicted between the two Opening statements, I'd be wondering why Caylee's backpack, doll, etc were all found in her Mother's car with her Mother's "work purse"...all their "traveling gear" in other words...if that little girl died at home in the pool?

If that was Caylee's favorite dolly...it would come in and out of the house with her. Every Mother knows that routine..knows the misery if Dolly or Teddy is left in the wrong place.

That dolly followed Caylee out of the Anthony house into that car that day. If Caylee died at home..the dolly would be at home.

 

[Tuffy]

If I were a juror conflicted between the two Opening statements, I'd be wondering why Caylee's backpack, doll, etc were all found in her Mother's car with her Mother's "work purse"...all their "traveling gear" in other words...if that little girl died at home in the pool?

If that was Caylee's favorite dolly...it would come in and out of the house with her. Every Mother knows that routine..knows the misery if Dolly or Teddy is left in the wrong place.

That dolly followed Caylee out of the Anthony house into that car that day. If Caylee died at home..the dolly would be at home.

Wow, that made me think again, stmarysmead. I've been following this case from day one (day 31 actually!) I've always thought that Caylee died at home in Casey's room. Now I think she did die in the car.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

It appears to me, ICA's entire life has been built on pretend.

It appears to me, ICA is the great pretender who cares greatly about herself, no one else matters. When she cries in court, it's about her...she's stone faced when Caylee is mentioned...

I can't believe people are buying this new line of pretend. All that her family has done for her, she now is slapping them in the face, again. I have seen nothing from ICA but ice running through those veins, from what I can gather through seeing her in the courtroom and hearing her...she is quite the fabricator and people seem to be buying this new fabrication, hook, line and sinker...God Help them see the light!

I do hope real life experience can allow those who did come from dysfuntional families to notice the difference (I have came from dysfunction)....ICA had everything handed to her (which is why she appears so narcisistic), she needed nothing as far as living arrangements go, food was also provided for her and her child...Is this the payback? I can see the distain in still quite evident as CA takes the stand..or GA..but blaming GA for this alleged SB is the most outrageous pretend to date. Wasn't it GA she choose to speak with in the OCJ? Why wait almost three years to say, Caylee died as a result of an accident but granddaddy, hid her body...still ICA took no responsiblity for Caylee's death. She laid it at Georges lap...digusting to me and Baez is total scum of the earth for this 'sleazy approach to a defense'!

GA marched himself down to the police station more than once to make sure the police were aware of the smell. He wanted to make sure the police were aware that ICA will take this to the extreme...she is holding back, he told them...they runneth the mouth too much and this might also ruin him...they did protest too much....to try and change the worlds preception of their DD.

I do believe ICA was controlled, dominated and that CA only wanted better for her child and grandchild. I also believe CA ignored certain behaviors from ICA while she was a young teen, remember CA's 'avoidance tendencies'?.

She appears to be a spoiled brat but I feel there is mental problems going on with ICA, not enough for insanity but she does have some mental issues. She appears to be a pathological liar and narcisistic if not sociopathic!

When ICA had a child of her own, ICA wanted better, gave an ultimatum for she felt ICA was neglecting Caylee, always wanted to be out and about with friends.

ICA wanted to be free to roam with her friends or boyfriend du jour...I believe this behavior with ICA must have started in middle school. I believe if ICA was abused, it was she who abused her own body by trying to be popular with the guys. She's got one guy on her arm, while the other guy is waiting in the wings. Is this antisocial behaviors?

We have seen this for almost three years, I do hope those jurors get it in the 8 weeks of testimony...the tapes from jail will show the real ICA, not her pretend personality...

I also believe the State must show the hatred/distain/jealousy ICA held against CA. Not only did ICA want to live La Bella Vita, she hated her mother with such vengeance, she took it out on Caylee..remember that 'jealousy' took her away! GGM Pleasea said it best, ICA hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee...I do hope the jurors get to hear SP...

I do hope those jurors see the truth. I do hope those jurors sights are on justice for Caylee. I do hope those jurors will find her guilty and recommend LWOP or death, the sentence doesn't matter to me, as long as she isn't free and either spends the rest of her sorry life in prison or on death row for 15 years unitl she's executed, either way, she's gone from society.

I will say a nightly prayer for the jurors to come to a just decision and get Caylee the justice she so deserves...

Rest peacefully Caylee...Justice will be there in your name...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

My husband has heard me rant and rave for 3 years......TODAY he gets it!!

He is astonished!

 

[1Chump]

I have a male friend, 70 years old, father and grandfather who lost his first born to SIDS. He is the one who found his baby in the crib. He has no legal or law enforcement experience. He has not followed the case until now.

He has some interesting observations. He does believe it could be an accidental death-cover up. GA being ex-law enforcement is the biggest red flag for him.

The way the defense talked about GA finding a dead Caylee, he thinks that the cover-up was GA's idea. He noticed the defense left things unsaid. He believes that GA may have instigated the cover-up of an accident because he did not want Caylee's body to be examined.

After yesterday's testimony by Lee Anthony and police officers about GA's lack of reaction, he believes even more that GA is hiding something. He said that the lack of reaction makes sense because of his LE training. LE have to detach emotionally. As LE, it makes sense not to ask his daughter anything because he would know he would have to testify about anything she said.

However, he did not act like a Father, especially a Father who is ex-LE. As a Father, he should have been protecting his daughter. He should have stepped in and told his wife and son to stop asking quesitons so they would not have to testify either. He should have told his daughter to not talk to LE, to not go with LE. He should have known that she would be a suspect and told her to stay quiet. He should have made sure she had an attorney before talking to cops.

He said that GA's actions to him does show someone who was trying to protect himself and throw his daughter under the bus.

BTW, with all the talk about the strong odor of human decomp in the car, he is waiting for the evidence. He actually said that they must have a ton of evidence from that car fto have that strong of an odor without a body.

As far as Cindy Anthony, he does not believe anything that comes out of her mouth. He thoght her crying was convenient especially when courtroom observers said she cried "silently."

I'm actually shocked at his opinions because on legal matters, we are always on opposite sides. It is usually me saying "because the law says" and him saying "I don't care what the law says."

 

[stmarysmead]

"After yesterday's testimony by Lee Anthony and police officers about GA's lack of reaction, he believes even more that GA is hiding something. He said that the lack of reaction makes sense because of his LE training. LE have to detach emotionally. As LE, it makes sense not to ask his daughter anything because he would know he would have to testify about anything she said."

In my opinion, years of living with Casey's lies led George to understand the futility of asking Casey anything. We hear in the tape at Universal, how impossible it is to get Casey off her (false) Message of the Moment. I think George knew instinctively from LONG family history...that the path to finding Caylee would have to circumvent the noise of his daughter's lies to have the slightest chance of success.

"However, he did not act like a Father, especially a Father who is ex-LE. As a Father, he should have been protecting his daughter. He should have stepped in and told his wife and son to stop asking quesitons so they would not have to testify either. He should have told his daughter to not talk to LE, to not go with LE. He should have known that she would be a suspect and told her to stay quiet. He should have made sure she had an attorney before talking to cops."

I think George loved Caylee...that loving child...more than any of the rest of his family. He would not be protective of Casey, Lee or Cindy at the expense of that helpless child ...who probably was HIS greatest source of returned love. He would certainly NOT tell them to be quiet if his beloved grandchild was at a far greater risk than his wife and adult children.

 

[diablo]

If I were a juror conflicted between the two Opening statements, I'd be wondering why Caylee's backpack, doll, etc were all found in her Mother's car with her Mother's "work purse"...all their "traveling gear" in other words...if that little girl died at home in the pool?

If that was Caylee's favorite dolly...it would come in and out of the house with her. Every Mother knows that routine..knows the misery if Dolly or Teddy is left in the wrong place.

That dolly followed Caylee out of the Anthony house into that car that day. If Caylee died at home..the dolly would be at home.

well, the DT would simply say everything was put into the car as part of George's ruse that the baby was subsequently dropped of with Zanny.

The DT theory that Casey's behavior was, in part, a product of abuse is a very good theory as it explains away all the other bad behavior. the problem is that it requires the foundation that abuse did occur & that fact won't/can't be established in this trail, esp, if KC does not testify. Moreover it requires 1 juror to accept that the abuse explains away all behavior years after the abuse stopped. It's a moonshot, and prolly all they had. We'll find out if it works in a few months.

For me I've followed for years, will continue to do so, but know my only true satisfaction will be in the future, say in 2025 when I read a small snippet on the internet that the State of Florida has finally stuck a needle in her arm...

 

[diablo]

"After yesterday's testimony by Lee Anthony and police officers about GA's lack of reaction, he believes even more that GA is hiding something. He said that the lack of reaction makes sense because of his LE training. LE have to detach emotionally. As LE, it makes sense not to ask his daughter anything because he would know he would have to testify about anything she said."

In my opinion, years of living with Casey's lies led George to understand the futility of asking Casey anything. We hear in the tape at Universal, how impossible it is to get Casey off her (false) Message of the Moment. I think George knew instinctively from LONG family history...that the path to finding Caylee would have to circumvent the noise of his daughter's lies to have the slightest chance of success.

"However, he did not act like a Father, especially a Father who is ex-LE. As a Father, he should have been protecting his daughter. He should have stepped in and told his wife and son to stop asking quesitons so they would not have to testify either. He should have told his daughter to not talk to LE, to not go with LE. He should have known that she would be a suspect and told her to stay quiet. He should have made sure she had an attorney before talking to cops."

I think George loved Caylee...that loving child...more than any of the rest of his family. He would not be protective of Casey, Lee or Cindy at the expense of that helpless child ...who probably was HIS greatest source of returned love. He would certainly NOT tell them to be quiet if his beloved grandchild was at a far greater risk than his wife and adult children.

GA's behavior is ODD! But it's not because he's an 'idiot-savant' with this master plan to cover everything up. He's simply a cuckold. Spineless whenever his over-bearing wife is around. Prolly a very decent man. But he knew who was boss in his family, and he was the pinky finger on Hopespring...

 

[1Chump]

"After yesterday's testimony by Lee Anthony and police officers about GA's lack of reaction, he believes even more that GA is hiding something. He said that the lack of reaction makes sense because of his LE training. LE have to detach emotionally. As LE, it makes sense not to ask his daughter anything because he would know he would have to testify about anything she said."

In my opinion, years of living with Casey's lies led George to understand the futility of asking Casey anything. We hear in the tape at Universal, how impossible it is to get Casey off her (false) Message of the Moment. I think George knew instinctively from LONG family history...that the path to finding Caylee would have to circumvent the noise of his daughter's lies to have the slightest chance of success.

"However, he did not act like a Father, especially a Father who is ex-LE. As a Father, he should have been protecting his daughter. He should have stepped in and told his wife and son to stop asking quesitons so they would not have to testify either. He should have told his daughter to not talk to LE, to not go with LE. He should have known that she would be a suspect and told her to stay quiet. He should have made sure she had an attorney before talking to cops."

I think George loved Caylee...that loving child...more than any of the rest of his family. He would not be protective of Casey, Lee or Cindy at the expense of that helpless child ...who probably was HIS greatest source of returned love. He would certainly NOT tell them to be quiet if his beloved grandchild was at a far greater risk than his wife and adult children.

IMO, that would be believable except for the fact that he was not the concerned Grandfather when knowing he had not seen his beloved Granddaughter for a month, picks up the car and smells what he believes is human decomp. He buried his head in the sand and went to work.

IMO, GA seems to get the benefit of the doubt depending on the situation. He would NEVER cover up an accidental drowning because he is ex-LE. When he smelled human decomp, he did not act like LE because he was a concerned Grandfather. He did not act like a father or husband because being a Grandfather was more important.

Yet Casey must have killed her daughter because she did not act like a Mother should act when her daughter dies.

 

[Turnadot]

My lovely sister (she's only been paying attention since opening statements) said the Universal type was like a gut punch and KC is pure evil. She noted LE gave KC several chances to admit to an accident but KC said there wasn't an accident. Sis said LE sounded frustrated and KC sounded like she was talking about the weather. In her opinion, that tape sealed KC's fate. Also, she thinks Baez's cross was a HUGE fail on the heels of the Universal tape. Baez, in her opinion, sounded defeated and desperate.

 

[olive]

Most people I've talked to who haven't followed the case until the trial believe two things: 1- Casey killed Caylee to live the single life, and 2- Casey was sexually abused and that is what caused her psychopathy. I don't agree with number 2.

 

[mombomb]

Just talked to my DS, who has not followed the case until now, and she feels that YM came across as aloof to JB. She felt that he was purposely not understanding his questions. Just another point of view FWIW.

 

[stmarysmead]

IMO, that would be believable except for the fact that he was not the concerned Grandfather when knowing he had not seen his beloved Granddaughter for a month, picks up the car and smells what he believes is human decomp. He buried his head in the sand and went to work.

IMO, GA seems to get the benefit of the doubt depending on the situation. He would NEVER cover up an accidental drowning because he is ex-LE. When he smelled human decomp, he did not act like LE because he was a concerned Grandfather. He did not act like a father or husband because being a Grandfather was more important.

Yet Casey must have killed her daughter because she did not act like a Mother should act when her daughter dies.

George had called LE about the gas cans. Cindy and Casey ended up solving that situation between them. He looked a bit of a fool for involving LE.

Now it's a short time later. Since he found no body...but did find garbage, I doubt George wanted LE on speed dial again. The more I watch Casey, the more she exhausts me. And Cindy is IMO a co-dependent in Casey's lies. Where does that leave George?

His wife IS in daily contact with their daughter...and the daughter says everything is great. If George were to go rogue on his own and call LE again...this time accusing Casey of having a dead body in her car...and then she and Caylee walked in the door...oh my!

No, that call, in the power-structure of that family... could only be made by Cindy; in that family such an act was above George's pay-grade.

Once George and Cindy are convinced that Caylee is missing and that Casey is in jeopardy, they are wild with emotion. Not once does George whine "All they care about is Caylee." or complain how his life is ruined.

It's not that we have never seen Casey act like a Mother...but we have never seen her act like a grieving Mother. We have seen great emotion but it's always centered on herself. Who among us could expound those complicated, calm lies knowing her Baby was lying out in the woods rotting...her little face disfigured with tape? I don't care how the death happened...Casey had about the most fun a girl could have..."ugly coping" in bars and beds...in the weeks after Caylee died.

George and Cindy, however, were going through the torture of the damned.

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

O/T I was keeping a running total of SA scores but had to make lunch and lost track at 14!! :banghead::crazy:

 

[Chili Fries]

I haven't followed the case closely over the years but I have watched or read the transcripts of almost all of the testimony so far. In the last few days I have read the police report describing the investigation of Casey's employment and the fake e-mails but since it's new in my mind I think I can put that aside. So if I were a juror...based on just what the jury has heard, here is what I would think at this point:

- I don't think the prosecution's attempt to show Casey's horribly uncaring behaviour after Caylee disappeared has been fully successful because it's been balanced by witness after witness saying they never saw anything that pointed to Casey being a bad mom. I think the defense strategy of painting Casey as a traumatized abuse victim works for this issue.

- I thought George was lying when questioned about the abuse allegations by the prosecutor. I know we've had discussion about him looking down when answering the question but when it happened live in court my impression was that he was lying. However, it was strange that the defense did not ask him about it during cross-examination. That seriously weakened their abuse claim at this point.

- I would totally dismiss the impound lot employee's testimony about the decomp smell. No credentials for that guy were presented other than him saying he had smelled it before. As for George...I thought his testimony was undermined by him not calling the police. It made him look like he was covering something up.

- The defense team has appeared unprepared and somewhat incompetent. Their opening statement started out OK but got incoherent. As a juror, at this point I would be still waiting and expecting them to back up their scenario.


If I were a juror I would still be far away from making up my mind at this point. Certainly there has not been enough evidence provided by the prosecution so far to find her guilty.

Bumping up my post from Monday and boy how things have changed. If I were a juror, the overwhelming evidence weighing on my mind now would be Casey's own words...when she was questioned by Yuri Melich and on the jail visit videos, and how her lies have been exposed. As a juror, I would still be waiting for the defense to present some kind of evidence that Casey was horribly sexually abused but I would be extremely skeptical of her telling the truth if she is put on the stand. I would be leaning strongly toward voting for a guilty verdict at this time.

 

[celticthyme]

Jurors listening to JB 's OS must have been in shock, as those of us who have followed this case for so long were. I do not know if they could separate fact from fiction then, and understand that what Baez said WAS NOT EVIDENCE BUT A BUNCH OF MADE UP HOOEY! We knew, but they didn't. Hopefully now that person after person have come to the witness stand and testified to the truth of their relationships and her lies, that information is being questioned in their minds. If not, the video and tape recordings surely must let them know how much, easily and pathologically she can lies. If she was not intimidated by having 3 seasoned law enforcement officials pushing her into a corner at Universal, she will lie about anything.Here's hoping that in hearing all of her lies, they must know that what she is trying to have them believe through her defense attorney, is also nothing but lies. This trial should be dubbedSEX, LIES AND VIDEOTAPES!

 

[Walk in IL]

I've been trying to view this trial through the eyes of the jurors. If by now they are not certain that any words from Casey Anthony's mouth are suspect, they must be comatose. I cannot believe there is any way on God's Green Earth that the defense can make her sympathetic or her lies understandable.