Through a Juror's Eyes/What do those who haven't followed the case believe? (Merged)

[nursebeeme]

bumpity bump

 

[Hisimage]

Since it seems some of us know this case and facts forwards and backwards and from beginning to end I thought this would be an interesting topic.

Yesterday when CA said she stopped looking for Zanny 6 weeks ago, I think most of us knew why. But I don't think the jury did. So I wondered what must some be thinking?

I would like to know through out the trial , questions that would occur if we were jury members. Try listening as if it is the first time we've heard it.
It will be hard so lets try. Don't give answers (it will be hard, I know) lets just post questions.

So...
If I were on the jury, I would wonder: Why did Cindy stop searching 6 weeks ago?

 

[nursebeeme]

Hisimage, I have merged this with the other existing juror thread... very good idea though!

 

[Turnadot]

My sister who knows next to nothing about this case said that after opening statements, she was confused. Her opinion of Baez's was that it seemed out there, but she was keeping an open mind, and so far, thought the drowning theory made sense.

Until yesterday. In her opinion, the fog is clearing and the witnesses, especially Maria Kissh and Cindy, have been compelling. And after the txt messages between TL and KC were presented, my sister is leaning away from accidental drowning theory. She noted: KC seemed concerned with her own situation and never expressed grief or worry about her baby. She said the txts were pretty disturbing because Tony cared more about Caylee's fate than her own mother did.

Her opinion of George is that he's ...off...but had nothing to do with hiding Caylee's body. She said for her it's a matter of logic, an ex-cop wouldn't leave evidence behind. But again, she's not swinging the door completely shut on that.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I think it is also important that we all remember that most if not all of the jury has heard of this story. At least half of the 12 more than likely know a whole lot more than what they told the courts. (not accusing, I personally think it's just reality)

Respectfully snipped for space.

ITA. I don't believe for a nano-second that the people selected to serve on this jury - all of whom reside in Florida - knew nothing about the case. Geez! I live in metro-Detroit, and the case has been covered here whenever there's been a new development.

I've served on two juries, one of which was a case that was decided in one day, but the other case was supposed to last two weeks but was dismissed (out-of-court settlement) after a full week of testimony. In the latter case, I knew neither of the parties personally and had never met them, I knew OF them because both are high profile people in these parts.

I've discussed the Caylee case with my hair stylist several times over the past three years, and DH and I heard the people at a nearby table in a restaurant last week discussing the case. Someone in the group had watched TV or on-line coverage just as I had!

I started following this case early on (not on WS) but gave up when I simply couldn't keep up with the doc dumps. I lost interest until some of the more recent motion hearings and will do my best to keep up with the trial.

 

[ynotdivein]

Having never sat on a jury, I wonder how well they will be able to disregard the defense's opening statements?

Even if not another word is allowed in court regarding GA's alleged abuse of ICA, will the jurors really be able to set that storyline aside and "un-ring the bell" as it were?

 

[magnolia]

Having never sat on a jury, I wonder how well they will be able to disregard the defense's opening statements?

Even if not another word is allowed in court regarding GA's alleged abuse of ICA, will the jurors really be able to set that storyline aside and "un-ring the bell" as it were?

Nope, I don't believe they can unring that bell,IMO.

 

[Scamperoo]

You are completely right, that is not evidence. I guess I should have taken that in to consideration before jumping... I do believe though...the evidence will eventually prevail...wether or not it is strong enough to erase doubt....I hope so.

I don't believe for one moment the sexual abuse allegations are true, however, lets for the moment suppose they are, KC is on trial for killing her baby, George is not on trial for sexual abuse.
It should get her LWOP if it is true, there are countless thousands who have been abused at the hands of a family member, they don't kill their babies as a result.
There is no evidence that George in any way harmed KC, only Baez with his outrageous opening statement has suggested this (apart from KC's dream sequence thought up last year) Baez is betting on there being one or two abuse survivors on the jury that may buy into this, ONLY HHJP can help by emphasizing that opening and closing statements are NOT evidence. If the Anthony's attorneys motion on Tuesday, makes the DT unable to reference the allegation until such time as evidence is bought in to support it, then I presume he won't be able to bring this into closing argument either.
Casey will have to take the stand for this to happen, then there is the faux pas of Baez accusing George of removing the car with homicidal evidence and cleaning it, after accusing George of finding Caylee dead from an accident in the pool and leaving her body where the meter reader could find
it. So was it an accident or was it a homicide, according to Baez it's whatever is gonna get his murderous client off.
If the jury is really taking notes on this they are on to Baez and Co.

 

[nursebeeme]

Nope, I don't believe they can unring that bell,IMO.

being hit with all that info at once in both opening statements I am personally not so sure that most of it may have sunk in....

the testimony will sink it in... the facts... and I really don't see JB having much to back up all his OS claims (again moo)

I agree they cannot unring the bell but JB seemed to be ringing enough bells for a bell choir to play "the entertainer" and not sure how many they were able to keep track of (many reporters said hardly any of the jurors were taking notes at this time... )

moo

 

[Wholehearted]

I think that even if a juror was initially on board with the accidental drowning, and thought maybe, just maybe, that it made sense Casey stayed in jail for 3 years because she was afraid of her abusive father, Casey herself is and will continue to give the lie to that story.

She's told what happened to the DT. JB has told the jury, and the world that's watching. She has no reason not to show her grief about Caylee now. But she has none. She doesn't move a muscle in her face when her mother breaks down on the stand about Caylee. She doesn't react in any way to her friends talking about Caylee. The only time she's reacted is when TL said something about Caylee being a great kid (because she still has some sick need to impress him and doesn't totally get that that ship has sailed a long, long time ago). She can't show grief for Caylee, because she doesn't have any. And her lack of reaction is going to continue, and the jurors will pick up on it. I think it's just that simple.

 

[Turnadot]

Called my sister again because I'm more curious after reading through this thread. She said the txt messages between TL and KC demolished the accidental drowning theory. This one: "if they don't find her, guess who get's blamed and spend eternity in jail"

My sister said it's ludicrous to think KC and especially ex-LE George would risk KC's fate like that if Caylee's death was an accident.

 

[tiredofthis]

Can I jump in and say I haven't followed this case nor read one word about it EVER.:innocent:

My husband who really hasn't followed the case believes she is guilty of murder
and my son believes it was an accident.

 

[shotgun09]

If I was on the jury and did not know all that I know, I would already be leaning into the States case. Setting aside the total confusion of Opening Statements, the pure audacity and ease of Casey's lies, betraying those who loved her the most (Tony and her Mom) with her lies, overwhelming sympathy for George and Cindy, the damning testimony of Simon Birch regarding the smell in Casey's car....so far this jury should be dismissing the junk theory of accidental and cover-up death (with GA) and slowly realizing just how truly diabolical Casey is. It won't take much more.......... especially if Jose is rendered unable to vomit out anymore of the garbage theory regarding George and the alleged abuse theory.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Called my sister again because I'm more curious after reading through this thread. She said the txt messages between TL and KC demolished the accidental drowning theory. This one: "if they don't find her, guess who get's blamed and spend eternity in jail"

My sister said it's ludicrous to think KC and especially ex-LE George would risk KC's fate like that if Caylee's death was an accident.

Equally ludicrous was JB's remark in his opening statement that (paraphrasing) "drownings are very common". OK. If accidental drowning is common - perhaps moreso in Florida or other warm climates where many people have backyard pools - why would KC and/or George make an effort to cover up an accidental drowning? They wouldn't. And I'll bet George and Cindy would have removed that pool from their yard pronto if they knew that they're beloved granddaughter had died in the pool! jmo

 

[magnolia]

Through a Juror's eyes, are they thinking the sexual abuse allegations are just part of KC's delusional world? If I was sitting in a Juror's seat, this is exactly what I would be thinking.

 

[nursebeeme]

do we need a recap of the jurors (I have my notes here)... note it is only in brief and further note that we do not sleuth jurors

 

[Tuffy]

I'd like to point out also that to those that haven't been following this case, so far they have not heard most of the evidence against Casey. So far they have just done basically the foundation testimony, and the opening statements. While Jose's opening statement may cause some questions in people's minds about whether this may have been an accident that was covered up by George, the trial has just begun.

The state has a very tight timeline of Casey's where abouts from phone records, and surveillance video, and witnesses. The same is true for the rest of the family. The evidence at the crime scene, and Casey's car haven't been introduced yet either. The case is pretty tight, not a lot of room for the story to deviate much.

It will be hard for the jurors to come up with a reasonable explanation for anyone other than Casey to be guilty of murdering Caylee.

The state was ready to try her for murder before they discovered Caylee's body. They are pretty confident in their case. They are not amateurs either. The state has plenty of experience doing their jobs. Jose, not so much.

 

[nursebeeme]

***interesting note.. none of the jurors know their order or if they are the 12 or alternates**

------------

1) 1398 63 y/o female crisis counselor, 2 kids, 3 grands (had no p-challenges from either side)

2) 1019 computer guy, has a wife that is a nurse. 2 kids ages 4 and 9 (no p-challenges from either side)

3) 1055 young single female nursing student with rat terrier (no p-challenges either side)

4) 1319 older AA female that plays farmville. State challenge was denied. She was not extensively interviewed)

5) 1429 long grey haired lady what lives with her boyfriend. She had a dui (no p-challenges either side)

6) 1025 young male chef in his 30's that cooks on tv a few times has two very young children (no p-c's either side)

7) 1007 woman that takes meds for trigeminal nuralgia that might make her "forget" 41 y/o and divorced (had DT pre trial publicity for cause that was denied)

8) 3015 middle aged woman that had kidney transplant has 2 teen sons Casey's age from NJ

9) 3185 "favorite uncle" semi retired guy never married and has no kids (no p-c)

10) 3310 single older verizon guy that had the sister arrested/prison for tying up their dad (no p-c)

11) 3016 PE teacher with two labs iffy on dp (no p-c)

12) 3140 "fun job" lady that works at publix. is a quilter has a 2 y/o grand in TN (no p-c)

----------------------

1) 3093 surgical tech lady that weaves yarn and has two teen son (no p-c)

2) 3170 male government teacher with tenure has 2 teens (no p-c)

3) 4015 woman that bounced checks

5) 4192 young carpenter guy

 

[The Farm]

I think it is also important that we all remember that most if not all of the jury has heard of this story. At least half of the 12 more than likely know a whole lot more than what they told the courts. (not accusing, I personally think it's just reality)


I agree that the DT more than likely raised reasonable doubt to a person who has no clue of any of this case, however to this jury, I just don't believe it is the case. At most, the DT can only hope that this jury can do as they said, and leave all previous opinions aside and listen to the evidence.

Even if the jury has any reasonable doubt at this point, they are going to watch the jail house video's with Cindy, George, and Casey and they are going to further believe the states case of how Casey creates even bigger lies..and even bigger lies to get what she wants.
The jury will not believe Casey's story of abuse because of her very own words.
JMHO

I am thinking the same exact thing as far as the jurors. Most if not all have heard of the case,,,almost impossible not to have.

 

[twocuriouscats]

Hi, thanks for this thread and asking the hard question...I was waaaayyyy to afraid to broach this subject on WS. (fraidy cat!)

I have been hearing about this case from the beginning. I thought she was guilty. CA's phone call to 911 about the dead body smell was telling, IMO.

I joined WS in April, 'cause of the LI case (Shannan Gilbert and the murdered prostitutes on Gilgo Beach). The KC threads were so numerous, I didn't even attempt to check them out.

I watch NG...but IMO, the show got tacky when she focused her "hatred " of KC onto what the woman was getting in the jail commissary. That was just a little too much for me. Honestly, I think many people are so "hateful." There is a difference in being interested in a case, and crucifying someone (who is innocent until proven guilty) IMHO. I'm old enough to know that I don't want to be judged unreasonably, so I would allow others that right to not be judged. That being said...here is my 2 cents:

1)Watching the trial this week, I was amazed at how quickly JB was able to establish "reasonable doubt."

2) Most posters who claim to not believe her story of abuse, have probably not been abused themselves. Someone (it only takes one) on that jury just might know what that feels like. They may even have practiced "denial" in their own lives. DENIAL IS A COPING/SURVIVAL MECHANISM THAT BECOMES HIGHLY DEVELOPED WITH PRACTICE. No victim of abuse wants to do that...it just happens, in order for them to survive.

3) KC will have to testify to have credibility for accusing her father and brother of abuse.

4) I am struck by the testimony from people about KC's relationship with Caylee. Only good, even great things are being said about the way she cared for and related to her daughter. There seemed to be a lot of love there. Another reason for reasonable doubt.

Of course, I will wait to make a decision on guilt or innocence, as the jury and most reasonable people will do.

Again, thanks for the thread, brave one! I understand that this case is painful. People are passionate...I'd be happy to pop in with my thoughts as this trial progresses...as someone who knows the basics of the case but never sleuthed it...and could only watch so much NG! FYI, I think I DID see all the jailhouse videos, and like I said - I thought she was guilty. Who lies like that is what I thought. But when JB started to talk about "something's just not right"...I think we could ALL agree, something was not right in that family dynamic. I'm not saying it is sexual abuse, but something is very dysfunctional with this family. How did KC (who started out innocent, a baby) become such a liar? JB did a great job IMO.

5) Yes, many mothers have killed their children...most were also found to be mentally ill - seriously mentally ill. I'm a parent - it's appalling, but people in their right mind don't generally murder their kids...Can anyone name a case where the mother wasn't mentally ill? Can you name two? haha JK

6) Some people have said that GA, being LE, would not have hidden a body. But he hasn't been LE for awhile, right? One question I would think as a juror is "why is GA no longer in LE"? I'm sure one of you can tell me the answer...TIA!


any insights/answers are welcome. Tough subject for everybody - peace all!