TH's polygraphs

[pdx]

Okay, devil's advocate. Suppose this interview was cut and diced.
These statements don't look too nice. But say the conversation between Terri and her friend was mostly Terri missing Kyron, blaming herself, and her friend trying to get her to talk about how SHE is. There could have been a much longer conversation in which this venting played a minor role compared to grief and sorrow, and that this is what the journalist left in. Not to mention the friend may not have conveyed the context correctly.
I can't imagine how terrified I would be if I knew LE was looking at me and I knew I didn't do it but it looked like they thought I had. Innocent people have gone to prison before.

I like to play Devil's Advocate too.
What I like about what you wrote is about what the journalist left in.

This has already been demonstrated here; the personal editorial essay run early in the case in the Oregonian, 'View from Across the Street' or similar, related the story of how one neighbor had invested an hour in an interview with the paper, only to have her comments reduced to one sound bite (which discouraged others from giving interviews).

I strongly agree that written stories need to be analyzed with a jaundiced eye.. print media makes errors and changes *all* the time.. we have seen it multiple times here already.

This story is very spicy.. gets eyeballs on.. and we have to remember that is was created to do just that.

 

[sofia76]

If my child vanished, the LAST person I'd suspect is my husband. I don't think that is unreasonable. I wouldn't be married to someone I thought was capable of that!

I have been reading My Life with Susan Smith and I am not shocked if Kaine thinks his wife is innocent. David Smith went 9 days believing his wife's every wod, telling police and media to back off his wife. I think most people would be like there is no way in he!! my spouse did this.

 

[seeking truth]

Okay, devil's advocate. Suppose this interview was cut and diced.
These statements don't look too nice. But say the conversation between Terri and her friend was mostly Terri missing Kyron, blaming herself, and her friend trying to get her to talk about how SHE is. There could have been a much longer conversation in which this venting played a minor role compared to grief and sorrow, and that this is what the journalist left in. Not to mention the friend may not have conveyed the context correctly.
I can't imagine how terrified I would be if I knew LE was looking at me and I knew I didn't do it but it looked like they thought I had. Innocent people have gone to prison before.

Sure, audreyfan, I understand that this could be just part of the conversation. It is third hand. Terri to friend, friend to reporter.

But, if these words of Terri's are even close to what she said to her friend, then nothing else she said can undo them, in my opinion.

I admit, that if this were all we were learning about Terri, then I'd give her some slack. But, there is nothing positive coming out about this woman as far as I'm concerned.

If more of her friends start talking I see her being even more of a person of interest.

All my OPINION

 

[seeking truth]

This is the last warning. Lie Detector news........ Continued warnings will result in Time outs.

I just am reading this, grandmaj.

Sorry about that. For some reason I was thinking we were discussing the entire article and I didn't read title of the thread.

Please don't put me on a time out!

 

[seeking truth]

Well it sure explains why Gates chuckled when asked had polys been given. Of course they had. That is investigation 101.

So it tells me she did not fail the first one but now in this phase of the investigation LE is going to want to go back and give polygraphs all over again.

I sure hope that includes everyone they previously gave one too and not just Terri Horman.

However I have had to take a LDT before and I was so nervous I thought the machine would register my blood pressure which was up because I had never taken one before and worried they would find me lying about something when I wasnt but the government said I passed.

So I hope that the stress does not give a false reading like it did when Archie Lunsford, Ruth Lunsford and Steve Greone took theirs.

IMO

Bolding and underling of your post above by me.

OBE, I am curious why you think the fact that she is being given a second polygraph (if this is a true) why this would mean she had NOT failed the first one.

Thanks, if you care to elaborate.

 

[seeking truth]

I asked my detective neighbor...we walked our dogs together this am.....he said that most polygraph exams are a very limited number of questions. After an intense two week investigation, new questions come up. Also, in cases like this one, VERY often family members have received sleep or anxiety medications early on and this causes inconclusive results. In his opinion, this is not unusual to do another one at a later time.

jmoo

Thanks for sharing your conversation, Raeann. I find Terri's response to the second test much more revealing than the fact of the test itself.

my opinion

 

[annalyzer]

People lie to LE all the time, to cover up bad behavior or an affair or any number of things. It is possible that if TMH falied a polygraph, it was due to lying about where she went after leaving the school. For all we know, she may go to the nude beach the first Friday of every month. And if so, she doesn't know how to go back now and straighten out the little lies without coming off worse than she already is. Just saying, if she did indeed fail a LD to questions as to her whereabouts, there could be a less incriminating explanation, but she might not know how to prove it now.

I seriously doubt that. :cow:

 

[quadlatte]

I wonder if Terri's 11's look like 4's.

Apologies for commenting before I have finished reading the entire thread, but that is EXACTLY what sprung to my mind when I read about the appointment paperwork.

(Incidentally, my daughters (who are the same age as Kyron) do not require paperwork for an appointment, which to me attests to the "security" of the school, IMO.)

I also know that when writing fast, my 4's could easily be mistaken for 11's - and this observation, if my hunch is correct, also confirms my dreaded suspicion that there was a great deal of premeditation involved...:furious:

 

[quadlatte]

BBM. IIRC, it was around 1 - 1:30 p.m. on Friday, 4 hours after Kyron "disappeared" from the school.

And, if I recall correctly, this would have been DURING the Talent Show that some have speculated that Kyron would be attending/participating...

Why would she be online at home and not there to support Kyron???

From what we have learned about TM's volunteer work, she would likely have planned to attend whether or not Kyron was in the show...? (I go every year whether or not my daughters participate)

Unless she knew he would not be there, and she was not ready to raise the alarm yet...

 

[Pensfan]

I don't understand the reference to 3's - can someone shed some light for me? TIA!

They are referring to the Haleigh Cumming's case and Misty Croslin. Misty Croslin has failed many polygraphs.

 

[slapithigh]

And, if I recall correctly, this would have been DURING the Talent Show that some have speculated that Kyron would be attending/participating...

Why would she be online at home and not there to support Kyron???

From what we have learned about TM's volunteer work, she would likely have planned to attend whether or not Kyron was in the show...? (I go every year whether or not my daughters participate)

Unless she knew he would not be there, and she was not ready to raise the alarm yet...

I'm with you on this but to play devil's advocate...what if that was her daughter's naptime? Trying to take an 18 month old to a talent show during naptime would be a disaster IMO.

 

[Dee10]

I am assuming she will be taking that poly down at headquarters and I would except they would take the opportunity to question her again out of her comfort zone.

Seems kind of funny if you pass the lst test wouldn't they trust you, if they had new questions? Sounds like they have questioned her many times. They don't hook you up each time KWIM? Something is off, I think anyway.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I am assuming she will be taking that poly down at headquarters and I would except they would take the opportunity to question her again out of her comfort zone.

Seems kind of funny if you pass the lst test wouldn't they trust you, if they had new questions? Sounds like they have questioned her many times. They don't hook you up each time KWIM? Something is off, I think anyway.

yep and the fact we heard that the DA had been at the house as well. IMO

Just sayin'.........................................

 

[seeking truth]

It would cost her a pretty penny, likely at least $200 an hour. If I were her husband, there would be no way I would pay one dime for an attorney for her unless I was 100% positive she did not do it and/or was in denial.

No criminal defense attorney in his or her right mind would bill her monthly. They'd want their money up front, paid as a nonrefundable retainer, most likely. Otherwise, they would run a big risk of not being paid.

There might be a stray attorney out there who would take her case pro bono just for the publicity. But they'd have to be pretty hungry to do it, and she'd have to be pretty desperate to hire a desperate attorney.

This is all IMO. YMMV.

BBM

This is purely speculation:

Based on what I see as the core of Terri's personality, I think that she has told Kaine what she did to Kyron (sort of; blaming Kyron somehow) and has now made Kaine guilty by not speaking out. Essentially being guilty of covering up a crime after the fact.

Who knows? If she has the capacity to plan and execute a crime against another woman's child, one she herself has helped to raise, what would stop her from threatening Kaine, telling him she will implicate him? This second polygraph could also be very stressful for Kaine.

Maybe she wants to be a happy family with Kaine and the baby girl. Maybe she just wants to be a mom with a daughter.

As stated above, this is speculation and it is also pure opinion.

 

[amysmom]

Quoted because I think this is very important insight into TM's current (and likely usual) mental state. First, that statement is all ME, ME, ME. "I" don't understand..."I" didn't do anything.....it doesn't make sense to "me". She is focused on herself, her frustration, her exhaustion - the topic of Kyron has left her mind and she can't make sense of why they'd want to poly her again.

Second, it is DEFENSIVE. She is defending herself to her friend - why are they continuing to bother me? I didn't do anything! She doesn't focus on the very real gratitude she should have that so many people are trying to find Kyron for her, they are not giving up, they are going over things over and over again for any small piece of information or bit of fact that can help BRING KYRON HOME. Many, many people with missing loved ones would be thanking the heavens to have even a fraction of that attention and interest in finding their loved one.

I imagine they have asked KM, DY, TY, the teachers, the parents, the kids the same questions over and over again as well. TM however, is taking it personally and is now in defense (and whining) mode.

Then again, maybe she is always like that. Some people are.

What's missing to me is "Terri is scared"..Even IF it's all ME, ME, ME wouldn't that be a NORMAL reaction if LE seemed to be targeting someone who's innocent? Or guilty for that matter but there is nothing close to these feelings reported by her friend. :waitasec:

 

[mom_of_five]

School districts provide educational testing (IQ, academics, etc.) These tests are given by school psychologists and they are not diagnostic. They do not tell a parent what learning disablility a child may have, only that he/she may have a general Learning Disability. This testing is done to help students qualify for Special Education services. It is quite expensive for the district, and does not give specific info. ADHD can only be diagnosed by a Dr. However, it is very common for a teacher to fill out a checklist of the severity of certain symptoms. Just my two cents.

Thank you for this post. However, that isn't what happened in the case of one of my sons. The school district tested him thoroughly and gave us very specific learning disabilities with which he was struggling (dysgraphia, for instance). Regardless, I think this might be considered off-topic, so...moving on...

ETA: link to definition of dysgraphia: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=11183

 

[scandi]

And, if I recall correctly, this would have been DURING the Talent Show that some have speculated that Kyron would be attending/participating...

Why would she be online at home and not there to support Kyron???

From what we have learned about TM's volunteer work, she would likely have planned to attend whether or not Kyron was in the show...? (I go every year whether or not my daughters participate)

Unless she knew he would not be there, and she was not ready to raise the alarm yet...

Has anyone read if Terri said she would be attending the Talent show? It is one big red flagged area for me in this case.

Last week my bosses 8 yr old had a talent show at his school. The mother who works at Intel took off from work to be there for the show. I think most mothers would plan to attend especially if they are not working.

I also wanted to say I have the impression Kyron was well taken care of by his family. He was exposed to interesting cultures through art, exposed to many sciences giving him a way to explore discover what his interests were. And the environment of the home with bright colors, interesting and organized even down to how his food was placed on the table is a big plus for his caretakers IMO.

Now there might have been underlying issues - there usually is in any family's dynamics. But for the all in all I think he was being given every opportunity to grow up being the best he could be. All of that would have to be a joint effort on the part of the family IMO. xox

 

[miabellamoure]

People lie to LE all the time, to cover up bad behavior or an affair or any number of things. It is possible that if TMH falied a polygraph, it was due to lying about where she went after leaving the school. For all we know, she may go to the nude beach the first Friday of every month. And if so, she doesn't know how to go back now and straighten out the little lies without coming off worse than she already is. Just saying, if she did indeed fail a LD to questions as to her whereabouts, there could be a less incriminating explanation, but she might not know how to prove it now.

We all have moments of poor judgment but, I believe those of us who would be innocent of harming a child would be shouting it from the rooftops...hey, listen...I said I was running errands but, I hate to admit it but, I was actually stealing a moment away from the kiddo's at the nudie beach!

SM apparently hasn't done this...she's stuck to her "errands story" and unfortunately for SM, her cell pings didn't get the message to keep up the lie to LE!:liar:

 

[MsFacetious]

Another article about this:

http://www.kgw.com/news/Second-grade-student-missing-from-Skyline-Elementary-95670454.html

First reported in the Oregonian, Jaymie Finster said that Horman was "tired and frustrated with the intensity of the questioning she's been getting."

Finster confirmed the paper's account that she and Horman have been friends since they went to junior high school together in Roseburg and they worked in the Hillsboro school district. She declined to be interviewed further.

 

[IRule254]

We all have moments of poor judgment but, I believe those of us who would be innocent of harming a child would be shouting it from the rooftops...hey, listen...I said I was running errands but, I hate to admit it but, I was actually stealing a moment away from the kiddo's at the nudie beach!

SM apparently hasn't done this...she's stuck to her "errands story" and unfortunately for SM, her cell pings didn't get the message to keep up the lie to LE!:liar:

One would think, right! Unless maybe the person in question was cheating on a spouse (NOT that I think she was, just an example)

but, sheesh, even then i would mail it in at this point-anything is better than being suspected or charged with the murder of a child, right?