TH's polygraphs

[Cajun Girl]

Bean,

Great thread. After reading this case 7 days a week, hours a day since it began I have only one question.

Are these margaritas really strong?

 

[BeanE]

This statement by KH is what leads me to believe she failed (or at least was told she failed) the third one. The bold is by me.


Q: Can you describe how Terri Horman handled the polygraph requests? I believe you have said to others that Terri walked out of a second polygraph, and then waited about 10 days before taking a third? Can you clarify this for us?

A: She fully cooperated and took the first polygraph then subsequently vented her failed results to all family, friends, and law enforcement at the house. A few days later she cooperated and went to take a second polygraph test but got up and walked out before the machine portion of the test could be administered... again by her own statement to family, friends, and law enforcement at the house ...She continually pushed back and refused to repeat the second test for several days (approx. 8-10) before going to take the test and then once again coming back to the house and venting to all listeners.

I read that statement, like this "and then once again coming back to the house and venting to all listeners [just like she did when she failed the first one]"

The bold and brackets is me completing the thought. That's the way normal people talk. "Once again" is saying it was just like the first time. Notice that he doesn't mention her venting after the 2nd aborted poly -- because leaving is not the same as failing. jmoo.

Well that's the one I think that used to make me think that she'd failed, and for the same reasons you specify. But then my hat started humming... and I realized he just never says she failed that third one. And that darn People reporter who says nothing about venting, but quite the opposite. And then the little people in the TV started talking to me...

 

[21merc7]

All that we have heard about the polygraphs came for Kaine and Desiree, and I just saw the People article.

Being evasive does not mean failed. Maybe TH was thinking about what they were really asking before answering. We really don't know. More than likely, if TH was told anything, it was that the results were "inconclusive." Perhaps "evasive" was also a word that someone used inappropriately during an interview, when their mind could not get to "inconclusive." (I hate when the word is there but will not come out, it just hangs in the back of your mind, but will not come forward nor be said. So frustrating.)

Since polygraphs are ultimately worthless, in my opinion, I am not certain anyone should put much stock in these 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hand comments on them in this case.

Interesting that it seems DY was not even there.

 

[debs]

Well that's the one I think that used to make me think that she'd failed, and for the same reasons you specify. But then my hat started humming... and I realized he just never says she failed that third one. And that darn People reporter who says nothing about venting, but quite the opposite. And then the little people in the TV started talking to me...

............just when I thought the foil hat had stopped receiving.........

 

[21merc7]

And then the little people in the TV started talking to me...

Respectfully snipped

Lol! You have them too!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Please, don't even talk without LE without a lawyer. Keep practicing, I want a lawyer, I want a lawyer, I want a lawyer.

Not to worry. There are several in the family - just a phone call away

 

[sayd]

I thought she failed the first and third polygraph, and walked out of the second? So there were only two that she failed - the first and the third.

 

[kytty]

Note how this People reporter describes when Terri comes home. She doesn't mention any venting, doesn't mention a poly, rather she says Terri barely spoke to Kaine, and went off to another part of the house. Is this when Terri came home from the third poly?

Even then, the tension between Kaine and Terri was clear. On the day of the interview in their home-where a 3-in. stack of Kyron flyers sits on a kitchen table and boxes of green rubber bracelets etched with the tip-line number rest on the floor-Terri drove off with Kiara as Kaine sat down to talk. When she returned 90 minutes later, she and Kaine barely spoke before she went off to another part of the house while Kaine gave a tour of Kyron's bedroom.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20399962,00.html



Looks like only Desiree says Terri failed the third poly. Was Desiree at the house when Terri came home? The People reporter doesn't mention her (see above).

"Law enforcement didn't need to tell us," says Kyron's mother, Desiree Young. "She was very vocal about failing those polygraphs."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20400681,00.html



Nope, looks like Desiree wasn't even there:

Kyron's mother, Desiree Young, who lives four hours away and spoke to PEOPLE by telephone.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20399962,00.html

Bean, do you have a source that says that this was the day she took the third polygraph (btw the article says when she left, she left with her daughter, and I doubt she would take the baby to a poly) or is this conjecture?

Sorry, I'm just confused as to what this People article has to go with her failing or not failing the 3rd poly?

 

[grandmaj]

snip

Kyron's birth mother, Desiree Young, told reporters that she suspected Terri Horman from "the moment [she] got the phone call" informing her of Kyron's disappearance. She said that hearing that Terri Horman later took, and failed, two polygraph tests only confirmed her suspicions.


"I've known her a long time, I know she's lying," Young said. "It is really frustrating that she is not cooperating."

"Everyone knows that Terri took two polygraph tests," Kaine Horman said Thursday. "She [did] not pass those tests."
Kyron's distraught parents pleaded with Terri Horman to tell the police what she knows.

"She needs to do the right thing [and be] honest," Young said.

"Whatever the truth is," Kaine added.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20010160-504083.html

 

[CN2Souls]

:shakehead: Until LE says She failed I do not believe any of them. :shakehead:

 

[stumpedpa]

well that's the one i think that used to make me think that she'd failed, and for the same reasons you specify. But then my hat started humming... and i realized he just never says she failed that third one. And that darn people reporter who says nothing about venting, but quite the opposite. and then the little people in the tv started talking to me...

bbm and totally ot
that's what the foil hat's for isn't it?

:>)

LOL LOTS OF GMTA HERE......HADN'T READ THE REST OF THE THREAD

 

[BeanE]

snip

Kyron's birth mother, Desiree Young, told reporters that she suspected Terri Horman from "the moment [she] got the phone call" informing her of Kyron's disappearance. She said that hearing that Terri Horman later took, and failed, two polygraph tests only confirmed her suspicions.


"I've known her a long time, I know she's lying," Young said. "It is really frustrating that she is not cooperating."

"Everyone knows that Terri took two polygraph tests," Kaine Horman said Thursday. "She [did] not pass those tests."
Kyron's distraught parents pleaded with Terri Horman to tell the police what she knows.

"She needs to do the right thing [and be] honest," Young said.

"Whatever the truth is," Kaine added.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20010160-504083.html

Yep. I've got a similar quote up there, but not worded quite the same. I think this is the same interview though.

I sure wish we could find one where he says she failed that third poly.

 

[wondering1]

Yep. I've got a similar quote up there, but not worded quite the same. I think this is the same interview though.

I sure wish we could find one where he says she failed that third poly.

If she took three, failed two, and left the second one before being hooked up -- it must be the first and third that she failed. I personally don't think it's anymore complicated than that.

 

[Kimster]

I thought she failed the first and third polygraph, and walked out of the second? So there were only two that she failed - the first and the third.

That's how I understood it too. IIRC, it was said during one of the video interviews.

 

[grandmaj]

Yep. I've got a similar quote up there, but not worded quite the same. I think this is the same interview though.

I sure wish we could find one where he says she failed that third poly.

She only took two polys. She never got wired up for the second. So if she failed two polys it had to have been the first and third polys she failed ?
snipped

Kaine Horman, father of 7-year-old Kyron Horman, tells WW the missing boy’s stepmom walked out of her second polygraph test before investigators even began asking questions.

“She didn’t even get hooked up to the machine. She walked out before they hooked her up,” Horman told WW in an interview Thursday night.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/tag/terri-moulton-horman/

 

[wvjules]

Note how this People reporter describes when Terri comes home. She doesn't mention any venting, doesn't mention a poly, rather she says Terri barely spoke to Kaine, and went off to another part of the house. Is this when Terri came home from the third poly?

Even then, the tension between Kaine and Terri was clear. On the day of the interview in their home-where a 3-in. stack of Kyron flyers sits on a kitchen table and boxes of green rubber bracelets etched with the tip-line number rest on the floor-Terri drove off with Kiara as Kaine sat down to talk. When she returned 90 minutes later, she and Kaine barely spoke before she went off to another part of the house while Kaine gave a tour of Kyron's bedroom.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20399962,00.html

Looks like only Desiree says Terri failed the third poly. Was Desiree at the house when Terri came home? The People reporter doesn't mention her (see above).

"Law enforcement didn't need to tell us," says Kyron's mother, Desiree Young. "She was very vocal about failing those polygraphs."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20400681,00.html



Nope, looks like Desiree wasn't even there:

Kyron's mother, Desiree Young, who lives four hours away and spoke to PEOPLE by telephone.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20399962,00.html

Another 90 drive with Baby K? So maybe it was a regular thing (driving aroudn with K to get her to nap or relax.)

And another thing...how can you be evasive when answering "Yes" or "no" questions?

 

[sherbetjello]

“I think everyone knows she took two polygraphs,” Kaine said. “She has not passed those polygraphs.”

http://www.katu.com/news/local/98077834.html

But, I haven't seen anywhere in the media/reports where it says that she failed them. People are thinking pass/fail here, and the "inconclusive" is, just like you said, one big "I don't know."

It would be nice to know what medication Terri takes (heart, stress, mental medication), or her dietary habits (we know she trained), or if it's possible that she is a smoker/drinker?

Aye, what am I saying??!? We will never get those answers.

And another thing...how can you be evasive when answering "Yes" or "no" questions?

I don't think there's a way to be evasive in a yes/no, UNLESS when you are "shown" to be "lying" during the test the line of questioning starts to pigeonhole you.

 

[BeanE]

If she took three, failed two, and left the second one before being hooked up -- it must be the first and third that she failed. I personally don't think it's anymore complicated than that.

That's how I understood it too. IIRC, it was said during one of the video interviews.

She only took two polys. She never got wired up for the second. So if she failed two polys it had to have been the first and third polys she failed ?
snipped

Kaine Horman, father of 7-year-old Kyron Horman, tells WW the missing boy’s stepmom walked out of her second polygraph test before investigators even began asking questions.

“She didn’t even get hooked up to the machine. She walked out before they hooked her up,” Horman told WW in an interview Thursday night.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/tag/terri-moulton-horman/

I know what y'all are saying. I do. And if I could just find Kaine saying she failed two, then, yes, since she didn't take the second, it would obvious that she failed the first and third. But I can only find him saying she failed one. Despite all those reporters asking him to clarify.

I think it may be that she failed the first, and the third was inconclusive.

 

[BeanE]

But, I haven't seen anywhere in the media/reports where it says that she failed them. People are thinking pass/fail here, and the "inconclusive" is, just like you said, one big "I don't know."

Yes, that's what I'm trying (badly) to say.

I don't think there's a way to be evasive in a yes/no, UNLESS when you are "shown" to be "lying" during the test the line of questioning starts to pigeonhole you.

Well, I've seen many people in one other particular case (Gabe Johnson) misconstrue Inconclusive as the person lying or even having failed a poly. And I'm thinking if someone is thinking along those lines, and they hear that someone's poly is Inconclusive, they may well use the word "evasive".

 

[Morag]

I worked with a woman who took one. She was, of course, extremely nervous beforehand (although she was definitely not guilty of anything), and when she returned to work afterwards she was a basket case. Apparently there was a long Q & A before she was hooked up, and they told her that those Qs were the only ones that she would be asked. Then they "hooked her up", and that was a very long, slow procedure (did I mention she was a young and beautiful woman?).

When they finally began questioning, all went well for a while, then they began to ask Qs which were not previously mentioned, and those Qs were about drug use and sexual habits. She turned around to look at the examiner, exclaiming, "you didn't say those questions before!"

At this point the poly was terminated, 'cause apparently you're not supposed to look at the examiner, or to speak to him other than yes or no. Was she being evasive? Was her poly judged inconclusive, or just incomplete? I dunno. So what does constitute a failed poly? This one was a failure, regardless of whether she was deceptive. (She wasn't. The theft in question was later admitted to by another employee).

This guy may have been a rogue polygrapher, or he may have been doing business as usual, knowing that a young naive woman might not be clever enough to know when she's being played. I would suspect that it is not unusual for the questioning to be a little trickier than you or I might suspect.

Not only that, she had no lawyer, and she was forced to ride in the back of a police car for 50 miles to the site of the examination, even though she requested to drive herself. One cop, 2 FBI agents, and one thoroughly frightened young woman...

I don't think that LE is above making the circumstances of a poly harsh and difficult. And Terri didn't have an attorney when she took hers.