Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo

[LinasK]

I bet the parents of the boy killed by the tiger will sue now. I saw them talking on the news earlier and they didnt say it in so many words but you could tell.....

They will win easily. S.F. Zoo is criminally liable I've read even if the boys taunted the tiger.

 

[LinasK]

John Coté, Jaxon Van Derbeken,Leslie Fulbright, Chronicle Staff Writers
Friday, December 28, 2007
When Carlos Sousa Jr. didn't show up for Christmas dinner, his father called several of his son's friends - including the two brothers injured in the tiger attack that killed the teen.
Either Amritpal "Paul" Dhaliwal, 19, or his 23-year-old brother Kulbir Dhaliwal answered the phone and told Sousa Sr. that his son wasn't with them. In reality, the three young men were either on their way to or had already arrived at the San Francisco Zoo, where they would later be mauled by a 350-pound Siberian tiger.
"I said, 'Have you seen my son?' and he said, 'No,' then he wished me a merry Christmas," the father said.
The Dhaliwal brothers remained in stable condition Thursday, recovering from their injuries at San Francisco General Hospital. <snip>
The Dhaliwal brothers have been hostile to police in the current death investigation and were "extremely belligerent" in an earlier encounter with police this year, authorities say.
After the zoo attack, authorities said, the brothers had refused to give their own names, identify the victim or initially give authorities an account of what occurred.
Thursday, police interviewed the two brothers, as well as Sousa's father. Authorities didn't release the details of the interviews but did say their investigation showed that the tiger first attacked the older brother.
The brother yelled, police said, and the tiger released him, then grabbed Sousa. At that time, the brothers ran toward the cafe. The tiger caught up to them and again attacked before police fatally shot her.
"My son was trying to distract the tiger and scare it away," said Sousa Sr. after talking to police. "My son was being brave. I'm proud of him."
<snip>
Both Kulbir and Paul Dhaliwal were charged Oct. 9 with misdemeanor public intoxication and resisting a police officer after they were arrested a short distance from their home while apparently chasing two men, according to court documents.
Kulbir Dhaliwal allegedly cursed officers and kicked the security partition between the back and front seats in a police car after being handcuffed in the Sept. 7 incident, the police report said.
The brothers pleaded not guilty to the charges and are scheduled to appear in court Jan. 15, records show.
"The reports indicate they were extremely belligerent with police," said Steuart Scott, the deputy district attorney assigned the case. more at link:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/28/MN7RU5I8P.DTL

 

[LinasK]

It was still light.

Buzz, this quote is from an employee of one of the photo booths across from the Terrrace Cafe,:""It's pitch black around here by 5 p.m.".

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/28/MNSKU5OFE.DTL

 

[SeriouslySearching]

From every news account I have heard, they did say it was dark when the attack happened and it hampered knowing how many cats were out plus searching for additional victims. (They should close the park earlier and clear it before dark, imo.)

 

[Taximom]

"The Dhaliwal brothers have been hostile to police in the current death investigation and were "extremely belligerent" in an earlier encounter with police this year, authorities say."

Hmm, I wonder what they have to hide.

 

[Pandora]

There's a bobcat that frequents my biking hills. He scares the carp out of me. I am counting heavily on adrenalin. Mine I mean.

Please be careful. Bobcats are normally not going to disturb you; however, last summer a bobcat did attack a biker here on the "rails to trails" in Williamsburg, PA. It was rabid. The biker was able to fend it off, getting the bike between them until someone came along with a gun. (My brother carried the article with him for a few days to show people because he always carries a 9mm--yes, he has a permit--while hiking here and people make fun of him. He's a body-builder most humans wouldn't even think about messing with, but rabid animals are another ballgame.)

 

[SeekingJana]

I don't think the survivors are going to have to admit taunting the tiger.
A man's footprint was found on the wall while the zoo was cordoned off as a crime scene, a shoe and blood were found INSIDE the tiger's enclosure. I would say that at least one of the 3 young men were taunting the tiger. She did what tigers do when cornered or stressed.
Link is here in case it hasn't already been posted:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8TQ284G0&show_article=1

Also, the fact that the zoo's wall was 12.5 ft high, being of very old construction standards ( which the AZA never noted on yearly inspections) instead of the minimum of 16 feet for tiger fence enclosures mandated by the AZA, makes it a complicated legal situation.

It's obvious that at least one set of parents is poised to sue, but if the shoe and blood is their son's, it also raises the culpability of the young men as well as the opposing question of why there was not wire or other human barriers around the enclosure, since apparently people are going to poke their legs into a tiger's den.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

They will win easily. S.F. Zoo is criminally liable I've read even if the boys taunted the tiger.

--agree--San Francisco Zoo and perhaps the city will have to cough up millions to these parents who lost their son and also to the other two guys who were mauled--Clear case of negligence, and I'll bet the two families of these victims are being bombarded with lawyers offering their services

 

[Amraann]

I agree that the zoo has some responsibility because the wall was not high enough but who in their right mind taunts a tiger????
I think the blame here is easily shared and I would hope that any judgment would reflect that.
The previous attacks were all due to human error and not properly closing the gates or doors.

This is probably not the first time someone has taunted this tiger so it really makes me wonder what these boys did that made her so mad she succeeded in climbing the wall.

 

[kgeaux]

I don't think the survivors are going to have to admit taunting the tiger.
A man's footprint was found on the wall while the zoo was cordoned off as a crime scene, a shoe and blood were found INSIDE the tiger's enclosure. I would say that at least one of the 3 young men were taunting the tiger. She did what tigers do when cornered or stressed.
Link is here in case it hasn't already been posted:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8TQ284G0&show_article=1

Also, the fact that the zoo's wall was 12.5 ft high, being of very old construction standards ( which the AZA never noted on yearly inspections) instead of the minimum of 16 feet for tiger fence enclosures mandated by the AZA, makes it a complicated legal situation.

It's obvious that at least one set of parents is poised to sue, but if the shoe and blood is their son's, it also raises the culpability of the young men as well as the opposing question of why there was not wire or other human barriers around the enclosure, since apparently people are going to poke their legs into a tiger's den.

I'm sure you've read the latest articles by now, and realize there was no shoe found inside the enclosure. I just wanted to point that out, so readers will not walk away still believing one of the boys must have had his leg dangling over the enclosure.


I was listening to the radio this morning, and they were saying that a witness has come forward with an account of the attack. This particular witness did not mention any taunting; don't know if he just didn't mention it, or if he actually did not witness any taunting. From the radio description of what happened: The tiger attacked one of the brothers, who began screaming. (I guess so!) Carlos ran over to try to help, and the tiger turned on him and "gave him one swipe" before returning to the brothers, who had by then run to the caf&#233;. If that account is true, then Carlos is actually a more of a hero, not some dumb who "got what he deserved" to quote some other posters. Meanwhile, zoo officials were "backpedaling" about both the height of the wall, the span of the waterless moat, AND about whether the tiger could have simply leaped from her enclosure. The radio program quoted the zoo director as saying "it looks more and more like the tiger simply leaped out."
(Again this does not deny taunting, but it does seem to dispel the theory that Carlos or one of the brothers dangled a leg over the fence to give the tiger some assistance in her escape.)

 

[SeekingJana]

The latest article up on Drudge says a shoe was found. The zoo director said it yesterday. Why would he say that, I wonder? Could you point me to a more recent link that states that no shoe, blood or shoeprint was found?

I totally agree that if the wall was too low it's the zoo's liability and also the AZA bears a huge responsibility in this, as they are the accrediting and inspecting body for the country's best zoos. I won't go to a zoo which isn't an AZA member.

I also think Amrann has a point about if the young men WERE dangling anything over the wall, that's just...well... incredible..

I'm sure you've read the latest articles by now, and realize there was no shoe found inside the enclosure. I just wanted to point that out, so readers will not walk away still believing one of the boys must have had his leg dangling over the enclosure.


I was listening to the radio this morning, and they were saying that a witness has come forward with an account of the attack. This particular witness did not mention any taunting; don't know if he just didn't mention it, or if he actually did not witness any taunting. From the radio description of what happened: The tiger attacked one of the brothers, who began screaming. (I guess so!) Carlos ran over to try to help, and the tiger turned on him and "gave him one swipe" before returning to the brothers, who had by then run to the café. If that account is true, then Carlos is actually a more of a hero, not some dumb who "got what he deserved" to quote some other posters. Meanwhile, zoo officials were "backpedaling" about both the height of the wall, the span of the waterless moat, AND about whether the tiger could have simply leaped from her enclosure. The radio program quoted the zoo director as saying "it looks more and more like the tiger simply leaped out."
(Again this does not deny taunting, but it does seem to dispel the theory that Carlos or one of the brothers dangled a leg over the fence to give the tiger some assistance in her escape.)

 

[Pharlap]

I have also read that the guy who died was distracting the tiger from attacking his friend, the first victim. If true, he is a hero.

After I read the article in my post #182, I'm not sure I can say the same of his so-called "friends". They are being uncooperative with the police and have a history of belligerence. I think they were the ones who taunted the tiger, since it chose one of them to go after first, and continued to hunt them 300 feet away.
My husband's theory is that the cat jumped to the side wall and then walked on the wall to the sidewalk.

Yes, the young man is a hero.
But something (to me) is still fuzzy.
The orginal guy that was saved, has to know what happened, since he was the last to be by the cage.
I (jmo) bet he's not telling the whole story.
Why in all the years that the tiger didn't try this before.
What made the tiger do this that night?

Heard on the news they are putting cams in.
Maybe it will be mandatory for all zoos in the future

 

[IdahoMom]

It's discouraging to me to hear that the brothers have been hostile and uncooperative with the police.

I hope the truth will come to light.

 

[southcitymom]

Yes, the young man is a hero.
But something (to me) is still fuzzy.
The orginal guy that was saved, has to know what happened, since he was the last to be by the cage.
I (jmo) bet he's not telling the whole story.
Why in all the years that the tiger didn't try this before.
What made the tiger do this that night?

Heard on the news they are putting cams in.
Maybe it will be mandatory for all zoos in the future

The thing is - wild animals are, well, wild and extremely unpredictable. This tiger had already proven herself to be unpredictable and dangerous to a human who was helping her (she ripped that person's arm off). So I don't think we can conclude that these 3 men made the tiger do anything.

As far as the victims being uncooperative - who knows - maybe they are still in shock or maybe they are just jackasses. I too hope they will cooperate with LE but it surely seems like they don't like LE very much based on the prior experience they had with LE. I'm just still not convinced that any taunting went on - though, again, I remain open-minded about that point.

Not that it would change my opinion much either way. Even if these men were taunting the tiger, the zoo has a responsibility to make certain it's patrons don't get eaten.

 

[lisag]

The latest article up on Drudge says a shoe was found. The zoo director said it yesterday. Why would he say that, I wonder? Could you point me to a more recent link that states that no shoe, blood or shoeprint was found?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic.../n152437S19.DTL&hw=tiger+attack&sn=004&sc=626

On Thursday, Fong denied earlier news reports that police were looking into the possibility that the victims had dangled a leg or other body part over the edge of the moat, after a shoe and blood was found inside the enclosure. No shoe was found inside, but a shoeprint was found on the railing of the fence surrounding the enclosure, and police are checking it against the shoes of the three victims, she said

 

[southcitymom]

It's discouraging to me to hear that the brothers have been hostile and uncooperative with the police.

I hope the truth will come to light.

One story said they had a history of being uncooperative with the police. I kind of wonder what that means. What sort of teenage boys have a history with the police? They obviously don't trust the police. Either they have something to hide or they have a grievance with LE in general.

I would think they would at least come out denying they had bothered the tiger - maybe they are still in shock or maybe they are waiting to speak to an attorney. I'm sure more will come out - they have to talk to the police eventually.

 

[Vegas Bride]

I do hope the truth comes out on how this happened.
You would think that with their friend being dead, the 2 brothers would be shaken up enough to tell everything that happened, I don't understand the not cooperating. If I were ever attacked by a tiger I'd be blabbering about everything I could!
It's very sad and sensless that a boy was killed and it's also sad and sensless that the tiger was killed also.
About the possibility of the tiger being taunted, IMO the zoo should have been thinking about the possibility of someone doing this, there are to many ignorant people in the world and it's bound to happen, the enclosure has to be made secure enough so a wild dangerous animal can not escape.

VB

 

[JBean]

One story said they had a history of being uncooperative with the police. I kind of wonder what that means. What sort of teenage boys have a history with the police? They obviously don't trust the police. Either they have something to hide or they have a grievance with LE in general.

I would think they would at least come out denying they had bothered the tiger - maybe they are still in shock or maybe they are waiting to speak to an attorney. I'm sure more will come out - they have to talk to the police eventually.

I think being arrested for resisting a police officer officially constitutes a "history".

 

[southcitymom]

I think being arrested for resisting a police officer officially constitutes a "history".

So that's what happened prior - I hadn't read that. Most people with a history with police at that age are a bit delinquent!

 

[JBean]

So that's what happened prior - I hadn't read that. Most people with a history with police at that age are a bit delinquent!

I agree. May mean nothing, may mean something.
Both Kulbir and Paul Dhaliwal were charged Oct. 9 with misdemeanor public intoxication and resisting a police officer after they were arrested a short distance from their home while apparently chasing two men, according to court documents.
Kulbir Dhaliwal allegedly cursed officers and kicked the security partition between the back and front seats in a police car after being handcuffed in the Sept. 7 incident, the police report said.
The brothers pleaded not guilty to the charges and are scheduled to appear in court Jan. 15, records show.
"The reports indicate they were extremely belligerent with police," said Steuart Scott, the deputy district attorney assigned the case. more at link:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MN7RU5I8P.DTL