Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo

[southcitymom]

I agree. May mean nothing, may mean something.
Both Kulbir and Paul Dhaliwal were charged Oct. 9 with misdemeanor public intoxication and resisting a police officer after they were arrested a short distance from their home while apparently chasing two men, according to court documents.
Kulbir Dhaliwal allegedly cursed officers and kicked the security partition between the back and front seats in a police car after being handcuffed in the Sept. 7 incident, the police report said.
The brothers pleaded not guilty to the charges and are scheduled to appear in court Jan. 15, records show.
"The reports indicate they were extremely belligerent with police," said Steuart Scott, the deputy district attorney assigned the case. more at link:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MN7RU5I8P.DTL

Thanks for that link. You're right - maybe pertinent, maybe not. I wondered if it was something like that. They are surely not the first nor the last drunken teenage boys to lip off at the police!

 

[JBean]

Thanks for that link. You're right - maybe pertinent, maybe not. I wondered if it was something like that. They are surely not the first nor the last drunken teenage boys to lip off at the police!

It's the "while chasing 2 men" part that bothers me. ETA: Well and the cursing at officers and kicking the partition part too I guess

 

[Pharlap]

The thing is - wild animals are, well, wild and extremely unpredictable. This tiger had already proven herself to be unpredictable and dangerous to a human who was helping her (she ripped that person's arm off). So I don't think we can conclude that these 3 men made the tiger do anything.

As far as the victims being uncooperative - who knows - maybe they are still in shock or maybe they are just jackasses. I too hope they will cooperate with LE but it surely seems like they don't like LE very much based on the prior experience they had with LE. I'm just still not convinced that any taunting went on - though, again, I remain open-minded about that point.

Not that it would change my opinion much either way. Even if these men were taunting the tiger, the zoo has a responsibility to make certain it's patrons don't get eaten.

That was human error, the feeder of the tiger, was stated the feeder put her arm threw the bars...if I heard correctly.
The zoo did change the feeding area of the tiger after that happened.

 

[southcitymom]

That was human error, the feeder of the tiger, was stated the feeder put her arm threw the bars...if I heard correctly.
The zoo did change the feeding area of the tiger after that happened.

I hear you and I definitely understand. My point was just that the tiger had a history of going after a helpful innocent human, so it could have easily gone after the 3 guys "just because" it's a tiger. I don't think we can look at the tiger's behavior and assume it was provoked. It was just acting like a tiger.

 

[browneyes]

Wow, this is such a tragic situation.

I feel that no matter what the situation, the zoo is responsible. If the height of the wall was as required, the young man and the poor tiger would both still be alive.

 

[Mygirlsadie]

Oh I totally agree with you. The zoo should of made it completely IMPOSSIBLE for any animal to escape it's enclosure regardless of 'taunting'... Here is my thing though.. ok if the tiger simply leaped out then why has that not happened before? If it was so easy for the tiger just to get out this time wouldnt you think that the tigers would of been doing that all along?

They will win easily. S.F. Zoo is criminally liable I've read even if the boys taunted the tiger.

 

[browneyes]

Oh I totally agree with you. The zoo should of made it completely IMPOSSIBLE for any animal to escape it's enclosure regardless of 'taunting'... Here is my thing though.. ok if the tiger simply leaped out then why has that not happened before? If it was so easy for the tiger just to get out this time wouldnt you think that the tigers would of been doing that all along?

Zoos should expect wild animals to be taunted....mostly by children and not young adults...but it happens...unfortunately!

I was at the zoo in DC one time with my children and we were facinated by the hugh gorilla that was alseep in his "cage" behind glass. There was a big sign on the glass that read "DO NOT BANG ON GLASS"!! Of course, that's the first thing some children and adults did. I couldn't say anything, because that was my first instinct as well. I wanted that darn gorilla to wake up and entertain my kids. :razz: Thank goodness, I restrained myself.

 

[mrsjonnob]

we are mebers of the SF zoo. We take our kids often, and got an email from their PR person stating they are taking measures to ensure safety, blah blah. I am scared to death.

I don't care- this animal ate a womans arm a year ago... even IF these guys were taunting it, the zoo has a responsibility to make sure the animals are kept in their enclosures- period.

I am a huge animal lover and I am so sad that the tiger had to be shot, but the zoo is negligent regardless of what their patrons do. I have 5, 7, 10, and 13 year old sons and I am quite certain they are capable of doing obnoxous things that would antagonize a tiger. They drive me nuts, so I imagine their antics would make a wild animal go batty! BUT- I assume they are safe at the zoo!!

I am sad for the families, but mostly for that poor animal who didn't know any better. I hope the zoo has to pay out bigtime.

 

[southcitymom]

Zoos should expect wild animals to be taunted....mostly by children and not young adults...but it happens...unfortunately!

I was at the zoo in DC one time with my children and we were facinated by the hugh gorilla that was alseep in his "cage" behind glass. There was a big sign on the glass that read "DO NOT BANG ON GLASS"!! Of course, that's the first thing some children and adults did. I couldn't say anything, because that was my first instinct as well. I wanted that darn gorilla to wake up and entertain my kids. :razz: Thank goodness, I restrained myself.

LOL! You could have been describing me. I've learned not to do these things but I always want to!!!

 

[mrsjonnob]

i have read that an employeee left a door open... by mistake or on purpose???

You just cant afford to make those mistakes... were they runing a skeleton crew on Christmas?

I have to imagine the number of visitors that day was low... so what happened?

I also read there could have been a wood plank left to make a bridge to cross the moat. Why was a wood plank left where that could happen? I see very few scenarios where the zoo is NOT liable.

How very sad. I can't fathon a more horrific fate than to see an animal coming at you like that.

I asked my husband yesterday what he would do if we were there when that happened and we both thought we would try to cover our kids and pray a lot.

 

[southcitymom]

i have read that an employeee left a door open... by mistake or on purpose???

You just cant afford to make those mistakes... were they runing a skeleton crew on Christmas?

I have to imagine the number of visitors that day was low... so what happened?

I also read there could have been a wood plank left to make a bridge to cross the moat. Why was a wood plank left where that could happen? I see very few scenarios where the zoo is NOT liable.

How very sad. I can't fathon a more horrific fate than to see an animal coming at you like that.

I asked my husband yesterday what he would do if we were there when that happened and we both thought we would try to cover our kids and pray a lot.

If a door was left open, you are probably right on the money that the zoo was skeleton staffed - perhaps with many part-timers - for the holiday hours. I cannot imagone someone would purposefully leave the door open to the tiger area, but I can understand someone who is PT and doesn't do it every day forgetting in the rush and bustle of the season.

I think all of us parents would react exactly as you said - do whatever we could to keep the animal away from our children.

 

[ziggy]

IF - there was taunting, I hope it gives the zoo some defensive material, however I believe both parties should be held liable.

I really think PEOPLE should be more responsible for their behavior and if you are a dumb - then you get eaten. Natural selection.

I also believe the zoo should be liable for not having the standard in safety, but having to pay some hideous amount of money to the idiots (alledged) and their families would not be right either.

Post new signs at the zoo: Taunt a Tiger, Be its DINNER.
Then post pictures of the mauled victims. That might deter idiots who taunt the animals.

I also wish the zoo had someone on staff ready to tranqulize and handle any situatin without an animal dying. Don't get me wrong, I eat meat and I'm no PETA member, but these WILD animals can't be blamed for doing what comes naturally and it's sad that their human caretakers don't take precautions to save their lives.

 

[JDB]

i have read that an employeee left a door open... by mistake or on purpose???

You just cant afford to make those mistakes... were they runing a skeleton crew on Christmas?

I have to imagine the number of visitors that day was low... so what happened?

I also read there could have been a wood plank left to make a bridge to cross the moat. Why was a wood plank left where that could happen? I see very few scenarios where the zoo is NOT liable.

How very sad. I can't fathon a more horrific fate than to see an animal coming at you like that.

I asked my husband yesterday what he would do if we were there when that happened and we both thought we would try to cover our kids and pray a lot.

I have not seen anything about the door being left open.I did hear the rumor about the plank though.The only way that plank could have been placed there is if the 3 kids put it there. I was at the Zoo last year and they had workers doing some work on one of the areas. The only for them to get inside of the enclosure because of the moat was to use the planks. When they were done all the planks were stacked outside of the enclosure.

 

[LinasK]

IF - there was taunting, I hope it gives the zoo some defensive material, however I believe both parties should be held liable.

I really think PEOPLE should be more responsible for their behavior and if you are a dumb - then you get eaten. Natural selection.

I also believe the zoo should be liable for not having the standard in safety, but having to pay some hideous amount of money to the idiots (alledged) and their families would not be right either.

Post new signs at the zoo: Taunt a Tiger, Be its DINNER.
Then post pictures of the mauled victims. That might deter idiots who taunt the animals.

I also wish the zoo had someone on staff ready to tranqulize and handle any situatin without an animal dying. Don't get me wrong, I eat meat and I'm no PETA member, but these WILD animals can't be blamed for doing what comes naturally and it's sad that their human caretakers don't take precautions to save their lives.

I completely agree with your attitude on this Ziggy. I've read that they think the boys threw pine cones and sticks into the moat, which would not normally be in the enclosure. I'm betting it was the Indian brothers who initiated it based on their behavior. If I was a tiger, that would definitely piss me off!

 

[Nova]

I am just following reports here, but I believe the reports about an "open door" and a plank across the moat stemmed from mere speculation and have been corrected.

 

[2luvmy]

I hear you and I definitely understand. My point was just that the tiger had a history of going after a helpful innocent human, so it could have easily gone after the 3 guys "just because" it's a tiger. I don't think we can look at the tiger's behavior and assume it was provoked. It was just acting like a tiger.

SCM, tigers are animals that do not exhibit rational thought processes like most humans do. I think we would like to believe that the animals we are around on daily basis are predictable, but unfortunately they are not.
Anyone around animals needs to be cautious and aware of what they could do. I am not sure, but I wouldn't think placing your arm in the tiger's cage is typical behavior. If it is true these boys taunted the tiger, what did they think would happen? While you expect zoos to be secure and provide visitors with a secure environment, the fact remains that nothing is 100% fool proof. Accidents happen everyday.

I would think the zoo accrediting body would be in a heap of trouble, if it is true that they never documented that the enclosure needed to be higher. Businesses hire these places to assure the public that they are complying with standards and "good" at what they do.

 

[Mygirlsadie]

I just was on YouTube checking out siberian tiger videos and I am amazed at how high these tigers can jump. I am not shocked anymore that this tiger Tatiana was able to escape her enclosure.

 

[browneyes]

LOL! You could have been describing me. I've learned not to do these things but I always want to!!!

I swear scm, it was all I could do to restrain myself. :chicken:

 

[mrsjonnob]

IF - there was taunting, I hope it gives the zoo some defensive material, however I believe both parties should be held liable.

I really think PEOPLE should be more responsible for their behavior and if you are a dumb - then you get eaten. Natural selection.

I also believe the zoo should be liable for not having the standard in safety, but having to pay some hideous amount of money to the idiots (alledged) and their families would not be right either.

Post new signs at the zoo: Taunt a Tiger, Be its DINNER.
Then post pictures of the mauled victims. That might deter idiots who taunt the animals.

I also wish the zoo had someone on staff ready to tranqulize and handle any situatin without an animal dying. Don't get me wrong, I eat meat and I'm no PETA member, but these WILD animals can't be blamed for doing what comes naturally and it's sad that their human caretakers don't take precautions to save their lives.

Ziggy,

While *I* tend to agree with you, the zoo needs to be accountable for the idiots who will not know better, therefore, they need to be prepared for the worst case scenario, where a dumbass taunts a big animal at the risk of being devoured.

While I dont excuse a 17 yr old behaving that way, what if it were a 9 year old? The zoo must accept liability for their negligence. They allowed a dangerous animal to escape and harm a person. They are at fault, period.

Can you imagine if all zoos made people sign a waiver that they may be eaten at their own expense???

 

[Buzz Mills]

I haven't been following this thread, but in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, the two brothers are said to be "well known" by the San Jose Police. I haven't heard any details.