Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory

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  • #881
Direct indictment decisions are made unilaterally by the prosecutors and the defence has no ability to argue against it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ial-of-bosma-suspects-millard-smich-1.2682095

Correct once the decision has been made the defence basically has little to no recourse, but they are able to make submissions to be considered by the AG as part of the decision making process. Will have to find the link again.

ETA: Can't find the original link to what I read so may have mistaken prior input with subsequent application. The defence can make application after the fact based on charter violations, improprieties, abuse of power .... sorry it's a Wiki for lack of the original, more legal resource:

from:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadi...tice/Informations_and_Indictments#cite_ref-30

The Attorney General does not need to give reasons for deciding to prefer a direct indictment.[6]

The power under s. 577 is a discretionary power of the Crown.[7] However, it is reviewable for violations of the Charter. [8]

The defence may be able to have the court order evidence be taken from the justice system participants involved in the decision and the documents related to the decision to direct the indictment.[9] There is a high standard to warrant such disclosure requiring evidence of mala fides or "flagrant impropriety".[10] Further, the applicant must show that the documents fall under an exception to solicitor-client privilege.[11]

The exercise of power under s. 577 can be reviewed as an abuse of process.[12]

To warrant a remedy, it must be shown "that a discretion was exercise for improper or arbitrary motives".[13] There must be "clear and convincing evidence supporting the allegations before the Court."[14]

The applications in the reference cases cited in the above article are denied, but it does show they can be made.
 
  • #882
I have to wonder if those over 10,000 video files are just from business and public video surveillance or if they also include personal computers and other electronic devices with the ability to record video.

The investigation into the disappearance of Ancaster’s Tim Bosma brought in over 10,000 video files just on that one case.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/why-is-security-camera-video-still-so-terrible-1.2542359

Police are still looking for at least one other person, as a dark blue GMC Yukon belonging to Millard was seen on video following Bosma's truck as he left his home on the test drive on May 6.

The worker said Hamilton Police detectives had come by to pick up surveillance video from the house next door on Saturday.

http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/678720/neighbours-say-they-want-to-console-millards-mother/

Police have found Bosma's cellphone and what they believe to be the truck he was last seen in and have received over 500 tips from the public. But there's still no sign of the young husband and father.

Now, police tell CBC News they are looking for video surveillance from homes on Tinsmith Court, the street where the trailer was found.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...pearance-staying-silent-lawyer-says-1.1330722

I believe it would be safe to say personal devices and other pcs would be included in this. A great number of connections had to be established this way, and then the connections of-the connections... Im sure they went back several years with this, so I wouldnt doubt they have quite a bit of discovery to get through.. and then some still pending..
 
  • #883
I believe it would be safe to say personal devices and other pcs would be included in this. A great number of connections had to be established this way, and then the connections of-the connections... Im sure they went back several years with this, so I wouldnt doubt they have quite a bit of discovery to get through.. and then some still pending..

I also bet they still have piles of leads coming through to this day as things come to light, people may be putting 2+2 together about things which may have been overlooked if one didnt think certain things were going on, or gone wrong at the time but now makes perfect sense in the jist of things, looking back.:twocents:
 
  • #884
This is the article I was looking for:

from:
http://www.woodstocksentinelreview....st-direct-indictment-in-robinson-murder-trial

WOODSTOCK - A bid to quash a 2010 direct indictment that ordered John Douglas Robinson to stand trial on first-degree murder charges in relation to the death of Clifford Fair began Tuesday.

Before proceedings began, Justice K. A. Gorman ordered a ban preventing the publication of anything discussed during the two days of pretrial motions.

Robinson’s defence counsel Anik Morrow will argue against the indictment that came as a result of the Attorney General's office overturning Judge Marietta Roberts' May 2010 decision to dismiss first-degree murder charges against Robinson.
 
  • #885
Perhaps with all the video enhancement technology available today to LE, they were able to identify, or come close to identifying the driver of the blue Yukon truck following Tim Bosma, when he left home on the test drive. It might very well be CN. Did she see the murder, or see them moving the body around in Tim's truck ? Was she aware it happened ? This might make her an accomplice, to murder, in the first degree, who helped DM, and perhaps MS escape. It looks like she is in very deep. I doubt that she just got rid of a cell phone for them, without knowing what happened. She may end up going to prison for a very long time, along with DM and MS.

Good question about how much other useful information LE found on those 10,000 video tapes -- probably lots of surprises to be revealed in the trial. The three victims and their families deserve justice, and it looks like there is a good chance justice will be served.

bbm1

If there are no more arrests, then CN has to be the driver of the blue Yukon. MWJ will not have been the driver. Someone else but CN is not into sight. Shock! This "little girl" - whyyyyyy?

bbm2

Yes, of course they deserve justice, soon as possible. But LB's parents don't even have an evidence (dead body/remains) and still are hoping, the investigations could be wrong ......

IMO
 
  • #886
http://www.ipick.ca/toronto/tim-bos...epak-paradkar-i-treat-trials-like-wars?pnum=3


His nickname among colleagues is “Napoleon” for his use of battlefield tactics in the courtroom.

“I treat trials like wars. I’ve been emulating Napoleon since I was 16 because he came from nothing and became one of the great generals.”

The cover of his professional brochure features a horse-mounted photo of Napoleon and quotations like this: “Napoleon was famous for his fastidious attention to detail, for taking pains to study and thoroughly understand every military situation he ever faced — one must apply this to trial preparation in criminal cases.”

Paradkar’s calculated strategy in the Millard case includes building a “war room” to mobilize for the trial, including another lawyer, a collection of expert investigators and witnesses and a handful of law students.

“I like trial work more than plea-bargaining people,” he says. “The evidence is the evidence. It’s what behind it that makes the case.”

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

I wonder, if DP's strategy still is feasible.
 
  • #887
bbm1

If there are no more arrests, then CN has to be the driver of the blue Yukon. MWJ will not have been the driver. Someone else but CN is not into sight. Shock! This "little girl" - whyyyyyy?

bbm2

Yes, of course they deserve justice, soon as possible. But LB's parents don't even have an evidence (dead body/remains) and still are hoping, the investigations could be wrong ......

IMO

Doubt if she was driver of the Yukon ...... that happened on May 6 ..... CN was charged with doing something on May 9
 
  • #888
I guess this post will probably set off a firestorm but I stress in advance that I'm expressing my opinion. MHO. My independent opinion.

I have no dog in this race but many years ago I lived in Ancaster for some time, so that's my primary excuse, but I'm also always attracted to mysterious events that seem to have no immediately rational reason.

What worries me about this case is that we while there's tremendous emotion surrounding the presumed deaths of such good people, there's also a fierce wish to rush to judgement that is, frankly, quite baffling. According to Stats Canada, there were over 170 homicides in Ontario in 2012, a number that had remained constant for several prior years so one might be safe in assuming a similar number would apply to 2013. Nevertheless, due process is followed, in nearly all these cases, however laborious, time consuming and expensive these proceedings may be.

It's rote procedure in 99.9 percent of events in the arrest to trial continuum.

Except here.

This drive to a rush to judgement is all the more baffling because while, in this case we reportedly have accused a wealthy "playboy", a drifter, a pretty young thing, and an assortment of gangster low lives and opportunists, with murder. However, what we do not seem to have, at least so far, are bodies. TB's "remains burned beyond recognition" were nonetheless identified within hours followed by later questions about how more ashes than those created by one person had been found. At the time of his death, WM was found to have committed suicide and his body cremated by the family. One must ask, was LE mistaken in assigning the cause of WM's death as by his own hand then, or are they mistaken now is determining that WM was murdered by his son? The final missing body is, of course, that of the troubled young woman LB. We've only learned that she was dealing with mental issues, possibly including identity/personality shifts, that she'd fallen in with very shady friends and that her remains have not been examined by coroners in Ontario.

I am absolutely confident that LE is doing an outstanding job in getting to the bottom of these events and, as has been repeatedly pointed out here, have little doubt that serious crimes have been committed and that they've arrested the right persons for carrying out those crimes.

I, for one most heartily hope they are right.

Finally, I'm sorry to add that I'm very puzzled by the disparate approaches LE and, I guess, the Prosecution, has taken to the victim's families here. This may speak to the question of "tunnel vision", especially given the degree of public interest associated with these crimes, in particular that of TB. In TBs case, updates to the family were provided in person and LE members were even very visibly in attendance at the nationally televised memorial. During the past months SB has been a guest speaker at at least one LE event. A lack of involvement with members of the Millard family is in stark contrast, possibly more understandably, since at least one is incarcerated and charged with the death and the business dealings of others are probably being closely monitored. The probably suffering of the LB family, however, is almost beyond bearing. Imagine hearing through the media that charges had been laid in the murder of your daughter, when you are still holding out hope that she is alive somewhere and the police have never spoken to you at all. Unintentionally cruel, I'm sure, but cruel nonetheless. IMO.

On a side note, I seem to recall with certainty that there were many media references to delays in the Prosecution's provision of Discovery documents to the accused's lawyers who consistently referenced these delays until the arrest of CN when her lawyer complained about the mountains of discovery documents that had landing on him. Yet all such references seem to have been cleansed from the Web. Who has the ability (or the time) to make these story "fixups" I wonder, and why?

(Please, I beg you, in responding, try to refrain from telling me that LE never lays charges or takes action against any person without absolute proof that they've committed the crime. I'm sure that would be true in a world where Robert Dziekanski never got lost in an airport; where Sammy Yatim or Reyal Jardine-Douglas never boarded a TTC bus; where G20 protesters felt that civic protest is unacceptable and so on and so on and on.)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/trial-hears-from-witnesses-who-saw-dziekanski-tasered/article12693749/

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toronto-cop-found-guilty-of-assaulting-g20-protester-with-weapon-1.1451179

The undeniable fact is that those who wear police uniforms in the service of their communities, their provinces and the nation carry tremendous responsibility on their shoulders - responsibility that may lead them into extreme danger on behalf of citizens. But by the same token, we citizens must demand complete transparency from police and from public prosecutors whenever and where ever there is any effort to shortcut or curtail legal process, IMO. IMHO.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

But we knew that.

The Court and only the Court is the arbiter of guilt or innocence. Not LE. Not the Prosecution. Not the Defense.

But we knew that.

In the same way as one might say, if the accused (witch, Jew, Palestinian, murderer, rapist, protester, terrorist, rights activist, al Jazeera reporter etc.) has nothing to fear if they've done nothing wrong, one might equally point out that the prosecution, if they have nothing to fear, should have no problem with divulging all, absolutely all, of the evidence they've collected to bring the accused to trial. In fact they should welcome the opportunity to prove the strength of their case.

Anyway, there's my rant for the day. All IMHO, of course. Absolutely and emphatically only MO! And again underscored IMHO
 
  • #889
Thanks.....

snipped from your post Carli

"On a side note, I seem to recall with absolute certainty that there were many media references to delays in the Prosecution's provision of Discovery documents to the accused's lawyers who consistently referenced these delays until the arrest of CN when her lawyer complained about the mountains of discovery documents that had landing on him. Yet all such references seem to have been cleansed from the Web. Who has the ability (or the time) to make these story "fixups" I wonder, and why? '"

I couldn't understand the delay in providing the evidence either.
 
  • #890
We have to appreciate that hundreds of police and prosecutors have been working thousands of hours on this case.

I do not think it wise if they disclose anything too quickly , most likely they are aiming for accuracy more than speed , and if they make mistakes we would be bashing them for not taking their time to get it right.

On top of that this case has many twists and turns , the defendants have good lawyers , and for all we know there may be even bigger criminals involved , or more arrests to follow

Personally I feel comforted if LE are being thorough and meticulous.

For example , I dont think MWJ & CN popped onto LE radar the day they were arrested .... more than likely those pieces came together over many months .... those arrests took us by surprise because we are clueless (in the literal sense) .... but it shows LE are not clueless and we should be glad

But I do confess it drives me bananas having to wait for all the details :)
 
  • #891
The probably suffering of the LB family, however, is almost beyond bearing. Imagine hearing through the media that charges had been laid in the murder of your daughter, when you are still holding out hope that she is alive somewhere and the police have never spoken to you at all.

Do you have a link that TPS did not tell LB's family in advance that charges would be laid in her death? Have only read that TPS has not discussed with the family body vs no body.

I seem to recall with certainty that there were many media references to delays in the Prosecution's provision of Discovery documents to the accused's lawyers who consistently referenced these delays until the arrest of CN when her lawyer complained about the mountains of discovery documents that had landing on him. Yet all such references seem to have been cleansed from the Web.

Thousand of people would pay to have that happen to them - are you sure it only happend to DP?

Snipped and bolded by me, questions embedded in quote.
 
  • #892
Perhaps with all the video enhancement technology available today to LE, they were able to identify, or come close to identifying the driver of the blue Yukon truck following Tim Bosma, when he left home on the test drive. It might very well be CN. Did she see the murder, or see them moving the body around in Tim's truck ? Was she aware it happened ? This might make her an accomplice, to murder, in the first degree, who helped DM, and perhaps MS escape. It looks like she is in very deep. I doubt that she just got rid of a cell phone for them, without knowing what happened. She may end up going to prison for a very long time, along with DM and MS.

Good question about how much other useful information LE found on those 10,000 video tapes -- probably lots of surprises to be revealed in the trial. The three victims and their families deserve justice, and it looks like there is a good chance justice will be served.

Although it would be nice if this happened, but since we haven't heard of any further charges to either CN or anyone else and since they couldn't even tell what kind of vehicle it was in the original video, I'm not going to hold out hope.

JMO
 
  • #893

This situation was a little different in that the accused had a preliminary hearing and the judge had dismissed the murder charges due to insufficient evidence. The AG overturned that decision and sent the case directly to trial.

First-degree murder charges against John Douglas Robinson were dismissed Thursday morning after the presiding judge found "insufficient evidence" linking his actions to the death of 26-year-old Clifford Fair.

<snip>

Robert's decision was the culmination of a preliminary hearing that concluded earlier in the spring.

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/2010/06/04/murder-charges-dismissed-in-dismemberment-case

I couldn't find a reference in the Criminal Code, but from what I did find, it sounds like abuse of power could be hard to prove and involves things like entrapment or making threats of further charges to get a confession.

JMO
 
  • #894
[/B]

The accused know exactly what they are being charged with and the defense along with the accused do and will get their disclosure. The Crown is fully aware of the penalties/risks they face if full disclosure isn't presented to the defense prior to the trial. Read the attached link for all pertinent information if you please. The only advantages to the PH is that the defense gets to see how the Crown is going to present their case, therefore the defense can "strategize". IMO this is not a game; three innocent peoples' lives were taken so brutally and intentionally. There is no need to strategize as again, the evidence will speak for itself. It seems pretty apparent the Crown in this case believes by preponderance of the evidence they have a slam dunk case.

Also, the accused will be entitled to writing materials during the trial and at anytime they do not agree with what the Crown is presenting, if the presentation is inaccurate or false, they are fully capable of taking notes and sharing that information with their lawyer to right the wrong. Most importantly the accused has their right to take the stand in their own defense regardless of what their defense suggests, and if they chose not to, that is totally up to them if they give up the right. There is nothing underhandedly being done by the Crown when it requests to eliminate the PH. No ones' rights are being violated by bypassing the PH (or this move would not be allowed period) and everyone has the right to a speedy trial including the victims. Not to forget the taxpayers who may be footing the hefty bills incurred to carry out these investigations and trials. MOO.

The Crown must disclose all materials information that is in its possession or control that is not clearly irrelevant, regardless of if the evidence is to be called at trial or is inculpatory or exculpatory.[1]

The right to disclosure is founded in the principle of fair play between parties[2] as well as the right to make full answer and defence.[3]


http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Procedure_and_Practice/Disclosure

If the crown really believes that they have enough evidence for a slam dunk, what harm would there be in showing it all to the defence before trial? If their evidence is so solid, why worry that the defence might learn of it beforehand?

If it is really irrefutable, no amount of preparation or strategy would help the defence, so why make the unusual move of skipping the pretrial? I feel that there must be more behind this move than an abundance of evidence, because there would be no reason to hide an abundance of evidence, therefore, it must be some sort of evidence that they want to keep a surprise. Which is not the way that trials are supposed to work in this country.

The accused are supposed to have a right to examine the evidence and to question its validity before it gets sprung on them in court. They have a right to question witnesses and face their accusers, and to know beforehand who those people will be. The accused have a fundamental right to know what will possibly be used against them in court. This isn't Perry Mason, there aren't supposed to be any surprise witnesses or evidence that didn't make it into discovery until trial. Honestly, those kind of shenanigans sound like the road to a mistrial in my opinion.

Obviously the crown has some surprise up their sleeve, and to me it just seems like if they had a solid case, they wouldn't need to hide anything. To me it sounds like it would be something that could be easily refuted if the defence was given enough time, so the element of surprise is their only hope.
 
  • #895
Woodland. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. You're absolutely right. Upon Googling the subject further I find that according to the Toronto Sun, LB's parents WERE informed of police intentions before charges were laid.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/04/10/laura-babcocks-parents-still-waiting-for-closure-as-alleged-dellen-millard-victim

By 9 a.m., pretty close to the worst news was personally delivered.

“We were told they were going to charge Dellen Millard with her murder,” Clayton said.
 
  • #896
If the crown really believes that they have enough evidence for a slam dunk, what harm would there be in showing it all to the defence before trial? If their evidence is so solid, why worry that the defence might learn of it beforehand?

I've been thinking the same thing, Jubalee. Honestly, unless they have raw, clear and certified authentic footage of the forcible confinement and murder of TB by the accused and only the accused, then there is not enough evidence to take away this right to a pretrial.

I do suspect the details of the murder will be horrific and as much as I cannot wait to get some answers overall, I don't look forward to details of heartless violence. I do not wish the Bosma family should have to hear it once, let alone twice. But I do believe due process is necessary. I cannot imagine any judge in his right mind would agree to foregoing such a step unless, as I stated before, there was indisputable video footage of the whole thing.

If the Prosecution doesn't have indisputable evidence, then I have to chuckle at the notion of "Napoleon's" proficiency in strategizing being so threatening to the Crown that it must do all it can to stop him from 'pulling a Napoleon' upon hearing all evidence and plans at pre-trial.

Sent using Tapatalk 2
 
  • #897
Juballee ... the accused (lawyers) will get all the evidence well before any trial , there will not be any surprises for them.... but that is a ways down the road

All that is needed right now is sufficient information to make an arrest , and obviously that has happened , and the arrest warrants would have been approved by a neutral judge , who's function is to make sure the accused deserved (the arrest) and I am sure defending lawyers have been given at least that much information(for the arrest).

If any of those folks were innocent they and their lawyers would have made a bunch of racket and would have been released within days.

On the other hand , as speculated by others , the accused may prefer to remain in "protected custody" for reasons only they know at this time , maybe it is for their own safety , we can only speculate.
 
  • #898
If the crown really believes that they have enough evidence for a slam dunk, what harm would there be in showing it all to the defence before trial? If their evidence is so solid, why worry that the defence might learn of it beforehand?

If it is really irrefutable, no amount of preparation or strategy would help the defence, so why make the unusual move of skipping the pretrial? I feel that there must be more behind this move than an abundance of evidence, because there would be no reason to hide an abundance of evidence, therefore, it must be some sort of evidence that they want to keep a surprise. Which is not the way that trials are supposed to work in this country.

The accused are supposed to have a right to examine the evidence and to question its validity before it gets sprung on them in court. They have a right to question witnesses and face their accusers, and to know beforehand who those people will be. The accused have a fundamental right to know what will possibly be used against them in court. This isn't Perry Mason, there aren't supposed to be any surprise witnesses or evidence that didn't make it into discovery until trial. Honestly, those kind of shenanigans sound like the road to a mistrial in my opinion.

Obviously the crown has some surprise up their sleeve, and to me it just seems like if they had a solid case, they wouldn't need to hide anything. To me it sounds like it would be something that could be easily refuted if the defence was given enough time, so the element of surprise is their only hope.

BBM See my post 876 the snippet from the link I provided regarding the Canadian Criminal Procedure and Practice/Disclosure. Read the full document for further reference if you wish.

The PH was expected to run at least eight weeks and I only assume part of the Crown's request to bypass the PH is because of the evidence the Crown will present during trial is direct and very damaging to the defenses case regardless of how the defense try to strategize, therefore it could be a "waste" of the system already overburdened resources.

Once again I refer back to MR's trial and all the solid/direct evidence the Crown had to prove his involvement and guilt. It stands to reason why there was a request for forgo the PH. Had the system/GA allowed the PH on his case, that would have been a huge waste of so many resources including the defense lawyers, senselessly putting the victims love ones and the witnesses through all that unnecessary anguish. All JMHO.

The Crown was aiming for September 8th, to begin the preliminary hearing but if they forgo it, I wonder when the date will be to start trial. Example being, MR's PH was to begin late June, didn't happen and the trial started early March the following year. I also wonder if DP will ask for a change in venue. MOO.

For anyone who hadn't followed VS's case or MR's trial, this is a very interesting and telling interview given by DD, MR's lawyer. Not all defense lawyers are out to get their guilty client off the charges against them, it's as DD stated in this article. And respectfully, the blue is in response to a post up thread posted by Carli. I couldn't have said it any better then DD. HTH Carli. :)

The defence lawyer is the fundamental bulwark for the individual citizen accused of something by the state. The state has tremendous resources and they are usually backed up by the indignant and overwhelming support of the common people. It is extraordinarily easy for everybody to rush to judgment. To ensure that is not done, you have to pass through somebody like me. My role is to make sure that if there is a conviction, it is a proper conviction.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ler-raffertys-lawyer-opens-up/article4170503/

And a very informative interview with DD after MR's trial and where he speaks about his role as a defense attorney.

Exclusive Interview: Lawyer on defending Michael Rafferty - YouTube
 
  • #899
Doubt if she was driver of the Yukon ...... that happened on May 6 ..... CN was charged with doing something on May 9

I know: 9.5. helping DM in any form. But can you rely on LE, that precisely this allegation is correct?:dunno:
 
  • #900
I know: 9.5. helping DM in any form. But can you rely on LE, that precisely this allegation is correct?:dunno:

That will be determined when it goes to trial
 
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