Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory

[deugirtni]

I don't recall LE saying they were no longer looking for anyone else, only that they didn't know if there was a third person or not. That's the last I recall of it ever being mentioned. This doesn't tell us whether they are no longer looking or if they just have no idea who it is or if he/she exists.

I guess this article written on May 27, 2013 is what I was referring to, which led me to believe LE had now believed they were mistaken about the 3rd person, but you are correct, they merely said the threat is gone, and not that there wasn't still necessarily a third person involved, which very well could have been a female driver of Millard's vehicle, a vehicle which LE seemed quite certain to have captured on video with a single driver. BBM in the quoted text below:

SUSPECT NO. 3

The only person Hamilton police are still hunting down in the Bosma case.

Not much is known about this suspect. Not even if it is a man or a woman.

Police have said Bosma’s truck was followed by a second vehicle the night he was abducted. That vehicle was a dark blue Yukon SUV owned by Dellen Millard, according to police. They say only a driver was inside.

Police have not released a description of the driver, nor have they said what role they played in Bosma’s murder.

Superintendent Dan Kinsella did cryptically say, after announcing the arrest of the second murder suspect, that, “We believe the danger to the public has been arrested, and we believe the danger to the public has subsided as it relates to this case.”

http://metronews.ca/news/hamilton/685845/the-tim-bosma-case-in-focus/

 

[matou]

The 22-year-old pouted and waved goodbye to a dozen or so friends and family as she was led out of a Hamilton courtroom Wednesday, shackles jangling over her brown ankle boots as she headed back to jail.
The bail hearing for Noudga — accused of being an accessory after the fact in the murder of Tim Bosma — is set to continue Thursday morning. It was the first time she had family and friends there during a court appearance.
The details of the hearing cannot be reported because of a standard publication ban.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4726584-accused-girlfriend-in-bosma-case-in-court-again-thursday/

 

[ABro]

How can they expect word not to get out to the public/witnesses/potential jurors on what happened in court if the hearing is open to the public even with a publication ban? Do publication bans apply only to media or to Mr. Joe Public as well?

Because they will come after you with criminal charges if you violate the publication ban no matter who you are.

 

[matou]

Crown Attorney Tony Leitch has said previously that Noudga's charge stems from something she allegedly did on May 9, 2013 — three days after police say Tim was killed.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4726584-accused-girlfriend-in-bosma-case-in-court-again-thursday/

 

[deugirtni]

....... I happen to think CN may know a lot about what happened as well. My post was in response to Arnie's thought that she may have had no idea of anything until a few days later. However, if she was there and witnessed it, even if she didn't participate, and LE had proof of that, I believe the charge could be 1st degree murder due to the unlawful confinement charge. She has only been charged with accessory after the fact. This tells me that she either wasn't there or there is no proof that she was.

JMO

If CN was not in the vehicle when they confined him, nor at his home when they lured him to take his vehicle out with them, nor participating in the murder, then I don't believe they could charge her with murder. Note a previous post regarding 3 teens who killed a gas station patron, stuffed him in the trunk of his own car and then stole his car and used the deceased's credit cards to stay in a hotel and purchase items for themselves.. (I pasted reference to that story some time ago I think when CN was first arrested - found it, posted below).. that girl was right there within reach, saw what happened, and enjoyed the hotel and purchases made with the man's credit cards, and yet her murder charge was downgraded to 'accessory after the fact'... but... I think she was also a crown witness... which is what I can't help suspecting in this case also (although it is being hidden to protect her) MOO

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?240759-Tim-Bosma-Dellen-Millard-amp-Mark-Smich-chgd-w-Murder-Christina-Noudga-Accessory/page21&p=10471254#post10471254

Accessory after the fact can mean many things. I thought about a case way back in the late 80s in Burlington when 2 young men (17 and 18 year old friends at the time) brutally murdered a gas station customer when he purchased gas where the younger man worked and was on duty at his job just prior to closing.
His young girlfriend was present during the murder, and then fled the scene along with the 2 murderers, using the murdered man's own vehicle wherein he was stuffed in the trunk, traveled to Toronto, and went shopping with the man's credit cards. I looked up that case, in which the two men were subsequently convicted of first degree murder, while the girlfriend was charged with accessory after the fact (interesting case, and if the men ended up spending their full 25 year sentence in prison, they would be getting out soon):



http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/0/0/ontario/court-of-appeal-for-ontario/1997/04/23/r-v-olah-1997-3023-on-ca.shtml

Could this girlfriend of Millard's potentially have a much greater level of involvement than anyone may imagine at present? Could she have potentially been the driver following them in Millard's vehicle while the 2 men took their prey on the test drive on that fateful night, as LE initially suspected was the case with a third person, based on neighbouring video coverage? If she was there, but knew nothing of what the men were planning (if it was planned at all), had no idea of what she was becoming involved in, and did not participate in the murder itself, wouldn't she be considered an accessory?

 

[matou]

So what do you think so far ABro? Bail or no bail for Noudga?

 

[deugirtni]

Because they will come after you with criminal charges if you violate the publication ban no matter who you are.

As great as that is, to have a publication ban which every person of the public must adhere to, even without taking an oath or anything, a lot can and does go on behind closed doors. For example, Tim Bosma's parents were in attendance today, and can anyone tell me that they won't share what they heard with their son's wife, who was not allowed to be present? Their need to know what happened to their loved one is greater, in my humble opinion, than obeying a law (if it is a law). I'm sure they are good people and won't want to share whatever they heard so that they can obey the law, but some things are stronger than the need to behave... and.... everyone else in that courtroom.. and then.. word travels fast, don't you think?

 

[skatergirl]

Makes me think she's very involved in all of this. Bail?

I'm going to to go with no bail, JMO. I guess we will find out tomorrow. Or at least I hope

 

[deugirtni]

Crown Attorney Tony Leitch has said previously that Noudga's charge stems from something she allegedly did on May 9, 2013 — three days after police say Tim was killed.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4726584-accused-girlfriend-in-bosma-case-in-court-again-thursday/

May 9, 2013 was apparently the day when Bosma's truck which was inside a trailer, appeared at Millard's mother's home.

Late on that Thursday, neighbours noticed a large covered trailer appeared in Millard's mother's driveway in Kleinberg. On the Sunday, police opened the trailer and found Tim's truck.

http://www.theweeklynews.ca/news-story/4462499-clairmont-as-bosma-s-wife-pleas-for-his-return-millard-was-allegedly-escaping/

 

[jash]

The 22-year-old pouted and waved goodbye to a dozen or so friends and family as she was led out of a Hamilton courtroom Wednesday, shackles jangling over her brown ankle boots as she headed back to jail.
The bail hearing for Noudga — accused of being an accessory after the fact in the murder of Tim Bosma — is set to continue Thursday morning. It was the first time she had family and friends there during a court appearance.
The details of the hearing cannot be reported because of a standard publication ban.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4726584-accused-girlfriend-in-bosma-case-in-court-again-thursday/

Not that it matters but I'm curious if she did an exaggerated "pout" that people do when they intentionally want to convey their sadness/displeasure (like when my boss tells me stories about her young daughter being picked on at school, I will stick out my lower lip, make a sad face and say "Awwww"). Or if it was a more natural and involuntary thing (like her bottom lip was sticking out and quivering).

 

[skatergirl]

May 9, 2013 was apparently the day when Bosma's truck which was inside a trailer, appeared at Millard's mother's home.



http://www.theweeklynews.ca/news-story/4462499-clairmont-as-bosma-s-wife-pleas-for-his-return-millard-was-allegedly-escaping/

Hmm! Are you thinking along the lines that CN dropped off the trailer containing TB's truck while DM et al hung out at the Maple Gate home as an alibi

 

[cansleuther]

May 9, 2013 was apparently the day when Bosma's truck which was inside a trailer, appeared at Millard's mother's home.

Another article states that the truck was dropped off on Wednesday.

Bob Dimas, who also lives on Tinsmith, said he saw someone bringing the black trailer in on Wednesday night, while Dimas and his son were watching the Maple Leafs game.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/12/tim_bosmas_mom_makes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

 

[MsSherlock]

Hmm! Are you thinking along the lines that CN dropped ff the trailer containing TB's truck while DM et al hung out at the Maple Gate home as an alibi

Skater-IMO, from the looks of the size of the trailer and the fact it was backed into the driveway, I'd be very surprised that it was delivered by someone who wasn't familiar with maneuvering trailers. IMHO, women/girls, don't get a lot of experience in this department and it's an interesting concept that CN was really able to do this on her own. MOO

 

[skatergirl]

No. we certainly don't have a lot of experience in such matters. However that is not to say it is not possible either. I recently returned from an extended camping vacation where I, alone aside from assistance from my 2 young kids, managed to park our trailer quite fine in a variety of circumstances, certainly some more challenging than a driveway in an urban area. Also my first time hauling/parking etc a trailer.

 

[ABro]

So what do you think so far ABro? Bail or no bail for Noudga?

No idea. I don't know enough about bail. I need to do some research.

 

[MsSherlock]

I'm not keen on quoting anything with a "wiki" in front of it, but I think this article sums things up nicely. MOO

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadi...lease_and_Attendance/Judicial_Interim_Release

Grounds of Denying Bail

Section 515(10) of the Criminal Code provides that bail may be denied in three situations:

(a) where the detention is necessary to ensure [the accused’s] attendance in court in order to be dealt with according to law;
(b) where the detention is necessary for the protection or safety of the public . . . including any substantial likelihood that the accused will, if released from custody, commit a criminal offence or interfere with the administration of justice; and
(c) on any other just cause being shown and, without limiting the generality of the foregoing, where the detention is necessary in order to maintain confidence in the administration of justice, having regard to all the circumstances, including the apparent strength of the prosecution’s case, the gravity of the nature of the offence, the circumstances surrounding its commission and the potential for a lengthy term of imprisonment.


– CCC

Primary Grounds

Under s.515(10)(a) bail can be denied "where the detention is necessary to ensure [the accused’s] attendance in court". This ground addresses whether the accused is a flight risk.

This can include factors such as:

family or community roots in the jurisdiction
citizenship / ownership of a passport
current residence
plans for release
employment
possibility of lengthy sentence
history of flight
criminal record for breaching court orders
availability of sureties

Secondary Grounds

Under s. 515(10)(b), bail can be denied "for the protection or safety of the public ... including any substantial likelihood that the accused will...commit a criminal offence or interfere with the administration of justice".

Substantial likelihood means "substantial risk". It is not the same as proof beyond a reasonable doubt or probability. [1]

Denial of bail can include factors such as:

seriousness of the offence
surrounding circumstances of the offence and offender
accused's potential culpability
degree of planning and deliberation
involvement of firearms
mental health issues / addiction issues
likelihood of lengthy sentence
strength of the Crown's case
risk or harm to victim
accused's criminal record
previous outstanding release conditions
history of abiding by court orders and conditions

R. v. Link 1990 ABCA 55; c.f. Walsh 2000 PEISC

Tertiary Grounds

Under 515(10)(c), bail can be revoked "in order to maintain confidence in the administration of justice, having regard to all the circumstances, including the apparent strength of the prosecution’s case, the gravity of the nature of the offence, the circumstances surrounding its commission and the potential for a lengthy term of imprisonment."

In cases where the crime is heinous and the evidence overwhelming bail must be denied to preserve the public's confidence in the administration of justice.[1]

R v Hall [2002] SCJ No 65 at para. 26

 

[Alethea Dice]

Because they will come after you with criminal charges if you violate the publication ban no matter who you are.

But the publication ban refers to publishing, broadcasting or transmitting what happens in court. I don't think it prevents one from discussing it in their living room.

JMO

 

[ABro]

But the publication ban refers to publishing, broadcasting or transmitting what happens in court. I don't think it prevents one from discussing it in their living room.

JMO

I didn't suggest it did. I was responding to a question about how they could expect joe public not to violate the ban with the answer that joe would be in deep doodoo if he did. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[Arnie M]

A ban on publication is done for good reason ... evidence is presented in advance of the trial that should not be splashed all over media , coffee shops , or gossip columns ... it should only be revealed in a sober and careful court setting ... especially if murder charges are involved .... somebodies life and future is in jeopardy

On one hand the whole court procedure should be done without a viewing audience .... but our court systems allow the general public to attend ... this helps to keep things honest and democratic and prevents corruption

That is why the public can attend the court , but cannot publicly reveal what happened ... it is a good system

Once the trial is completed , every citizen in the country can read every single word spoken during the trial by purchasing the transcripts , thus our system is completely open and transparent .

Sometimes court proceedings are made public by news media every day of the trial once it is underway .... if it is a situation that news reports could influence or taint the jury they are sequestered in a hotel (etc) and prevented from hearing any media coverage until the trial is over.

 

[matou]

Ann Brocklehurst ‏@AnnB03 1h
Christina Noudga bail hearing continues

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2014/07/christina-noudga-bail-hearing-continues.html