Timeline Discussion

[Leila]

I don't think she ever went to SI. I think "a friend" had the cell phone to divert LE, and it worked. TH was out on a rural road looking to dump Kyron. Question is where?

I wonder if that white truck has GPS on it?

 

[gardeness]

Alright lets give Terri the benefit of the doubt here, okay so she goes to the grocery store... then she drives Baby around cause of an ear ache....What did she do with the groceries? she left the groceries in the truck for 3 hours, I hope it was cold enough outside that day, oh wait this was June, sorry Terri I can't give you the benefit of the doubt... You claim your daughter has an ear ache so you take her to the gym? UMMM NO!!!! TRY AGAIN... How about this time tell the damn truth.

I wonder what she purchased. With the surveillance videos (and, most likely, receipts), I am sure it'll be revealed soon...

 

[Wise Old Owl]

IMO (and still pondering on all this new info)

There is quite a bit of time that TH is not accounted for on this morning.

8:45 - 10:10 Grocery/errands

10:10 - 11:39 Driving aimlessly around with baby to soothe baby

11:39 - 12:40 Gym

12:40 - 1:20 Goes home

Ok - to look at this logically - there are only TWO ACTUAL times (and at such "odd" times - no 15, 30, 20)

10:10 - Supposedly left grocery - well that tells me there is a receipt with 10:10 on it.

11:39 - Gym - this is probably verified by a sign in sheet (especially if baby was with her - when baby was checked in to the daycare)

I have to wonder that the day TH and KH "hit the gym" (when the media "hit them" in the parking lot) - if they went there to CHECK the sign in sheets and get that ACUTAL time of 11:39. hmmm.........

And of course the 12:40 time - when baby was signed out.

So looking at it that way - she had from 8:00 - 10:10 open as well as 10:10 - 11:39

IF it is a store receipt - wonder what she bought. Was it a whole long list ( which would show some time spent in the store) or was it just a few things ( as in run in, get what you need, leave - under 10 minutes)?

Then we have nothing from 10:10 - 11:39 when she "hits the gym".

Looking at it this way - I believe Kyron's demise was before the 10:10 receipt. We have a sighting at 9:45 - probably headed for the store. And the driving around is probably true - she was upset, panicked, stressed, trying to figure out her "story".

Now two other things.

1) It doesn't take 90 minutes to murder and dispose of someone. It is actually very quick. Kill them, disposal. Now the 90 minutes could be mostly driving time - wonder if LE has focused on a 30 minutes out radius? 30 out - 30 event - 30 back in.

2) I really don't believe Kyron was killed in the truck. Now, this is a little "graphic". When you die - your body voids. I don't know how quickly but I believe it is within 15 minutes or so. If he died in the truck - there would have been evidence KWIM?

Still chewing another thought about this as well. Lots of thinking to do with this timeline.

 

[KeyboardCat]

I believe the scent that cadaver dogs are trained to detect is decomposition. Decomposition is occurs as a result of bacteria that forms in the body after death. (I believe it starts in the intestines.) This bacteria takes around 30 minutes after death to begin to grow. Now the time from when the smell is "detectable" to the dog after the decomposition process starts is always up for debate.

That is just off the top of my head from two years of being immersed into Casey Anthony.

Quoting myself because I was wrong!

The first stage of decomp (autolysis) is not influenced by bacteria or microorganisms.

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/decomposition

"Autolysis consists of the fast and intense spontaneous self-destruction of tissues by the body enzymes present in the cells, without any bacterial interference. "

and it further says:

"Once cells stop receiving nutrients and oxygen via blood circulation, they start anaerobic (without oxygen) "breathing", breaking ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) into ADP (adenosine di-phosphate) to obtain energy. Anaerobic respiration lasts for a few hours, until all ATP reserves are exhausted. "

The bacterial breakdown of those cells which results in the fluid being released is putrefaction, the second stage.


So in lay terms, after the death the cells of the body are still trying to keep working. But they don't have the fuel (fresh oxygen and nutrients) so they burn other chemicals. And because the cells are using these other chemicals, lactic acid (enzyme) builds up. And the lactic acid destroys the cell. (Decomposition.)
The article says that it can be a few hours before breakdown of the cells, but my understanding was that it can much faster. (Which is why I said 30 minutes.) So I could be wrong about that too.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

What did she do with the groceries? she left the groceries in the truck for 3 hours, I hope it was cold enough outside that day, oh wait this was June, sorry Terri I can't give you the benefit of the doubt...

Even if it was chilly outside that day, given that I recall (hopefully accurately) people were wearing hoodies and it was rainy, it would have been hotter in the truck.

 

[Forensic fan]

Let's look at it the other way around.

If it really was Terri at the gym ... that gives her 90 minutes, with the baby in the truck, to get this done.

Maybe we should look for Kyron closer to the house in a pre-dugged grave.

I'm just sayin'. That's tight. And awkward. And really stressful.

And you'd need to work all of that stress off at the gym. And have a shower too.
****************************

Snipped and BBM

And dispose of the clothes she had on when she did it?

 

[RoughlyCollie]

2) I really don't believe Kyron was killed in the truck. Now, this is a little "graphic". When you die - your body voids. I don't know how quickly but I believe it is within 15 minutes or so. If he died in the truck - there would have been evidence KWIM?

Still chewing another thought about this as well. Lots of thinking to do with this timeline.

I think he had to have been drugged in the truck, and that he died later.

I wonder if there was any evidence that cleaning fluids had been used recently on the truck's interior -- cleaning up the evidence of a "void", which would probably have leaked outside the clothing.

 

[Baxter]

I personally drove around my city for 3 hours one day because my son had an ear infection that tylenol wouldn't touch. THREE hours.
It would be easy for LE to confirm that the daughter has been treated for an ear infection.
Surveillance tapes would also confirm if she had Kyron with her (possibly even if he was just in the car).

thanks for all of this!

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think the ride was helping the ear infection. The bumps of the road and movement of the child'd head would aggravate the pain.

Today they have drops that take away the pain in seconds, taken along with the tylenol seems to be the standard.

I can not imagine baby K having an ear infection and then being well enough to go the gym.

 

[momoftwo2002]

IMO, if Terri did this, it was strategically planned, and she'd have planned a soft kill. Drugs.

1) Get Kyron from school. At some point drug him. Drive country roads around until KYRON is sleeping and/or dead.

2) Disposal.

Work that into various theories above. And pick an untraceable drug. Casey's favorite, perhaps?
Pick a disposal method where body discovery would not yield definitive toxicology or forensics on the cause of death. Pick a disposal sight that would turn the knife in Kaine's back.

My thought on this was utilizing a swimming pool that one of TH's cohorts had access to. We are going swimming would be great fun for a child so no problem getting him in the pool and then possible disposal in the water (Sauvie Island) would account for water in the lungs, etc....undetermined cause of death. Just IMO of course.

 

[shorty42404]

If Terri said she went to the gym, it would be pretty bold to lie about that. They would obviously have cameras there to check that out. If Dede met her there, same thing. Unless they met in the parking lot and there weren't cameras there? It would be nice if we had some info from the gym if Terri or Dede were there or not.

I agree about the time period where she said she was driving baby K around to soothe her is fishy. Not so much what she did because as a mama I get it too. I've done something similar with mine but not for earaches just for sleep. But what seems amiss is how long she did it, and the fact that it was the same day Kyron went missing.

 

[sorrell skye]

I wonder if phone records reveal contact between TH and DS during this timeline. It also seems odd to me that DS would leave a job without saying a word to a co-worker that she was leaving.

bbm

Good points Susan! If so, it could explain LE's reasons for looking at DS.

Not only is it odd to me that DS appears to have left abruptly without letting anyone know she was leaving, it's odd to me that upon returning, she didn't say where she was, since, IMO, they likely asked when she returned. I would have asked, especially if I had tried to call her during that time frame wondering where she was & couldn't reach her. But then, I'm nosy that way lol!

This article states that both her coworker & the homeowner have no idea where she was from about 11:15 to 1:00.

http://www.kgw.com/home/DeDe-Spicher-99077874.html

 

[cluciano63]

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think the ride was helping the ear infection. The bumps of the road and movement of the child'd head would aggravate the pain.

Today they have drops that take away the pain in seconds, taken along with the tylenol seems to be the standard.

I can not imagine baby K having an ear infection and then being well enough to go the gym.

I think the source says ear ache, not infection, if it matters...

 

[seeking truth]

DY said she believes Kyron is alive. Could the two women have done something else with Kyron? I mean, what would you do with a little boy???

I'm still hoping for a miracle here guys. Help me out!

Sorry to be a downer, Kimster.

I don't think that Desiree, Kaine, and Tony REALLY believe that Kyron is alive. I think they have known from very close to the time Kyron didn't get off the bus that he was gone.

Just my opinion and not very helpful in your hopes for a miracle.

I think that Kaine and Desiree are saying he's alive (sometimes) and saying they want him brought home (which could mean they want Terri to tell them where his body is) because they have been coached to say this. Why, I'm not sure, but I do NOT see in Desiree any belief and hope that her little boy is alive. I DO see her determination to have justice for him, though.

Kaine is harder to read, but it is actually him that causes me to believe he is saying this ~ that Kyron is alive, that he's getting the house ready for him, and other things like that that he's said ~ at the coaching of LE.

I think living with the thought, all these long weeks, believing that their child is in the hands of God knows what kind of a monster would be worse than knowing he didn't suffer for long and has passed away.

MY SAD OPINION.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

And dispose of the clothes she had on when she did it?

If she did anything to Kyron, it wasn't necessarily messy. Maybe just washing them would have taken care of any dirt and she didn't think getting rid of them was needed.

OTOH, if she did get rid of her clothes, I bet the pictures and video LE has been given from the school and the stores shows them -- and they know whether that outfit is present and accounted for.

 

[Kat]

I can share an anecdotal experience with kids with ear aches (which in my kids always translated to ear infections) and trying to sooth them with driving them about in a car.

None of my 5 (or my two step daughters who we had custody of when they were toddlers and infants) kids could be soothed or consoled by anything much less a car ride for an ear ache or ear infection. If I wasn't up all night the night before and had already made my way to the Doc or ER, I would take them right in because IMHO there isn't nothing worse than a toddler with an ear infection. Lordy. I don't miss those days at all.

But then again each child is different I guess. JMHO.

 

[gardeness]

Quoting myself because I was wrong!

The first stage of decomp (autolysis) is not influenced by bacteria or microorganisms.

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/decomposition

"Autolysis consists of the fast and intense spontaneous self-destruction of tissues by the body enzymes present in the cells, without any bacterial interference. "

and it further says:

"Once cells stop receiving nutrients and oxygen via blood circulation, they start anaerobic (without oxygen) "breathing", breaking ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) into ADP (adenosine di-phosphate) to obtain energy. Anaerobic respiration lasts for a few hours, until all ATP reserves are exhausted. "

The bacterial breakdown of those cells which results in the fluid being released is putrefaction, the second stage.

I am now paranoid about looking this up on my computer, lol!! But, I found an article about how quickly a decomposed body could alert a cadaver dog--this article says as soon as within two minutes of death:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...mposes+cadaver+dogs&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[trigger]

Need a local to confirm - but IIRC, all the local shopping is in one part of town and this Logie Road area is far out of town - rural - headed to even more rural... and pings as if on Sauvie Island...

Thanx...I had no idea of where the grocery store was...:innocent:

 

[Kat]

Also, has the source that says TMH can prove where she was been named?

I'm not going to discount any of this information but I want to know if I should adopt a "wait and see if it proves to be accurate" stance? TIA and as always JMHO.

 

[pingpong]

I wonder what time DeeDe showed up at the landscaping job, and did she need to stop at a gardening center or stores before her job began.

Has she ever borrowed the Horman's truck?

 

[joshiesmom]

The thing I don't believe is that she drove the baby around to try and soothe her because the baby had an earache. In what universe does driving a toddler around cure an earache? I have 7 kids and that part of TH's timeline had me doing a complete WTH??? :waitasec: If your child has an earache, try using numbing drops and/or flushing the ear to remove a wax plug. If the ear doesn't feel better, then take the child to the doctor. But driving around aimlessly and thinking a child is going to fall asleep with an earache makes zero sense to me.

The person whose husband suggested that maybe she traded Kyron as payment for the MFH plot might be on to something. As horrible as that sounds, maybe it's plausible.