Timeline Discussion

[ClueMeIn]

So if Kyron was seen after 830-835, and Terri's phone pings showed her to be elsewhere, she is not the one who removed him from the school.

Assuming someone else didn't have her phone...

 

[ClueMeIn]

Also we don't know when the cell phone pinged, or where really.

 

[Morag]

Also we don't know when the cell phone pinged, or where really.

We know pretty much nothing, but we have 13 pages of threads speculating about what little we do know, or think we know, or what we'd like to know!

The (rough quote) "last official sighting of Terri with Kyron was at 8:15". But the bus arrival times push that forward considerably. No kid who rode the bus that day could have seen him earllier than about 8:35. And if TMH did lie about seeing him at 8:45, she may have just been mistaken. Perhaps she knows she saw him after the first bell rang, 8:35, and assumed that she waved to him closer to the second bell, 8:45.

 

[GrainneDhu]

What "loose ends"? Did a searcher just tell them that they skipped a portion of their assigned section? That answer makes no sense to me. It is not as though they did not do a thorough search before.

In any search over rugged terrain, there are areas where SAR personnel can say with certainty that there is nothing there. Imagine a soccer field with three inch grass, for instance. All it would take is one person to walk the area once to ascertain with a high level of probability that there was no child there.

And then there are areas where SAR personnel can say they did not see anything of interest but cannot absolutely rule it out. Imagine a gully with walls that are covered with brambles and too muddy to walk or crawl down. In such an area, the searchers might space themselves at three feet apart but due to a bump or log or some feature of terrain be forced as far as eight feet apart in a few areas. SAR might rate such terrain at 95% probability of no child being there, even with the assistance of SAR dogs. Part of being certified is learning to rate one's search of an area honestly, not wishfully.

It is up to the SAR coordinator to decide what level of certainty they are willing to accept for what areas. This decision includes local conditions, number of searchers available and a number of other factors. In this case, I'd imagine that the SAR coordinator would want a very high level of certainty for the areas within half a mile to a mile of the school but be willing to accept a slightly lower certainty for areas 5 miles from the school.

If the terrain in the second scenario were more than a mile from the school and only reachable via equally rugged terrain, investing the effort to get to 100% certainty might be viewed as not being a wise use of resources, considering how much more terrain needed to be covered. Particularly in the first few days of the search, when hopes were high of finding Kyron alive.

Finding one 50 pound child in a circle of land that has a five mile diameter means covering almost 20 square miles. If the circle of land involved had a ten mile diameter, that increases the area to close to eighty square miles. In news accounts, it was unclear to me if the five miles referred to was radius or diameter.

I think a fair comparison of the difficulty would be for me to say I may have hidden a single size 11 seed bead in a stranger's house and bet you to find it. Maybe it's there, maybe it isn't. Even after you had searched thoroughly once, I think you'd probably want to go back and try again before paying up on the bet.

Or maybe you wouldn't be silly enough to accept such a bet in the first place!

With time, conditions change. I think there is little realistic hope that Kyron is alive.

Disturbing observation below:

If Kyron died on 4 June, his body may not have been putting out much scent in that first ten days. The weather that spring up until that point had been cool and rainy, which keeps ground cool, particularly vegetated or wooded ground. Cool conditions slow down decomposition.

Sometimes SAR dogs can pass right by very fresh remains because some local trick of the air currents prevents the scent from spreading.

I've seen this myself watching field hunters train. A bird gets shot in plain sight, falls, dog goes right to the correct general area and then goes nuts casting because they cannot scent the bird and their eyesight is such that the bird is not noticeable. I've actually heard dogs grunt in surprise when they literally tripped over the bird because it was not spreading scent as usual.

The weather has now warmed up and the air currents, even in wooded areas, will have changed. The sorts of air pockets where a bird can fall and not be scented are most likely to occur under cool conditions and unlikely to occur during hot, humid conditions.

After six weeks, if there is a body out there, it is now putting out a lot of scent if it is on land. That means that if the body were originally in some tiny pocket that were overlooked, it is now more obvious.

 

[Calliope]

Calliope, if you re-read my post, I said something to the effect that the DA would ask the child carefully worded questions. What I meant by that was, the D.A. would NOT badger the child or try to "hurt" him in any way. I also think that they would not bring him to court as a witness at all, unless they truly had to, and then they would be very careful with him.

As for the grandmother, wasn't there a big discussion here about why she would have subjected this little boy to a television interview, especially after we (the public) were informed that all witnesses had been asked to be silent?

It appears that the grandmother had no thought to the eventual prosecution of Terri, nor the fact that her grandson could be subjected to a court procedure.

My opinions.

The grandmother had no thoughts period, beyond seeing her name in the media. JMO

I don't think the DA will bring TP to the stand. He's a defense witness.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Also we don't know when the cell phone pinged, or where really.

I just wish this case made more logical sense to me. I get so confused trying to put it all together.

I thought we heard that her cell pings were around SI? So why are they back to searching around the school again?

If Terri removed Kyron from the school that day, then harmed him in that area, and then disposed of his little body in that area so well that after almost 8 weeks no one can find it, then she would have to be in THAT area for quite sometime to accomplish all of this.:waitasec: So imo her cell pings would show she was still in the vicinity of the school yet we had the exhaustive searches done on SI.

It just makes no sense to me if Terri did this that she would leave Kyron around the very place she knew would be searched immediately. If she did this then it only makes sense that she would take him further out in a remote area somewhere far away from the school.

:waitasec:

IMO

 

[grandmaj]

another thing about her clothes. Who would know how many identical outfits that she had? If I like a brand, I stick with it. So she could have 5 outfits that were the same.

Certainly her hubby wouldn't know the difference. Who else would know if an outfit ws missing?

The thing that is very odd to me-super odd, is that I read that she was in her gym clothes when Kaine came home.

Seriously, who wears their stinky gym clothes after a work out?

Could we please have a link to her being in gym clothes? Thanks.

 

[BeanE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanE
Wait. Whoa. Hold the phone. Kyron's been gone 51 days, and they're just now examining the videos from the stores she visited to verify she was there?

This is July 25. The videos had already been turned in by July 9.

Isn't it kind of important to verify what Terri says? Or is it just me?



••••••••••••••••••

I think the tapes have been previously viewed and verified/not verified as fitting/not fitting with TH's first and her subsequent stories of June 4th. I'm hoping all video of stores, the gym, the roads, etc. are being reviewed once again.

Sorry, but we have absolutely nothing indicating the tapes are being reviewed again.

 

[BeanE]

BBM

BeanE, Sheriff Staton said:



http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_horman_investigation_tra.html

I'm not sure where you're getting the number of three investigators from.

From the whole recent request for $$$. They said, very specifically, that 3 people were assigned to review the subpoenaed records, and the $$$ requested by the sheriff's office was for overtime for those people, as well as to add on a 4th person specifically to review the subpoenaed records.

That request for $$$ has now been withdrawn. That leaves 3 people.

If you want a link to the request document or any of the many articles about this or the threads discussing it, let me know. I'm always happy to provide links.

ETA: Here ya go for links:

$$$ Request document:
http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/We...an/APR_MCSO-01_Kyron_Horman_Investigation.pdf

News article:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s.html

Thread where it's being discussed:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109748"]MCSO asks for "one-year" crime tech & almost half-a-million dollars more - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[gliving]

Could we please have a link to her being in gym clothes? Thanks.

Kaine says it the interview when he describes coming home that day. Terri is still wearing the same gym set she had on that morning.

Please don't ask me to find a link.

 

[BeanE]

I just wish this case made more logical sense to me. I get so confused trying to put it all together.

I thought we heard that her cell pings were around SI? So why are they back to searching around the school again?

If Terri removed Kyron from the school that day, then harmed him in that area, and then disposed of his little body in that area so well that after almost 8 weeks no one can find it, then she would have to be in THAT area for quite sometime to accomplish all of this.:waitasec: So imo her cell pings would show she was still in the vicinity of the school yet we had the exhaustive searches done on SI.

It just makes no sense to me if Terri did this that she would leave Kyron around the very place she knew would be searched immediately. If she did this then it only makes sense that she would take him further out in a remote area somewhere far away from the school.

:waitasec:

IMO

BBM. Because the cell pings being on Sauvie were rumors from Unnamed Sources not involved in the investigation?

 

[BeanE]

Kaine says it the interview when he describes coming home that day. Terri is still wearing the same gym set she had on that morning.

Please don't ask me to find a link.

I'll ask you for a link

Several people have stated this about the gym clothes. I've asked several times for a link, and nobody has yet provided one. I even posted a list of all the different articles with interviews I had searched for this info.

 

[kappy50]

Could we please have a link to her being in gym clothes? Thanks.

Hi Grandmaj,

This came about in an interview with Kaine about what TH wearing the same clothes when he got home as she was that morning. I gotta go back and look..He never really answered the question in regards to gym clothes, just that she'd been to the gym. But he never answered what kinda clothes she did have on that morning either...this was in and around 7/9, because I was curious and made a post as well....let me go look ! Thank You

 

[grandmaj]

This is the July 6 interview.

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopul...-to-kill-Kyron-da/l4i6IFRqZ0C60O2oBmelsA.cspx

Was Kaine working from home the day Kyron went missintg? If so, when did Terri get home from the school?

Kaine: "No, I was in the office that day until about 1:45, and arrived back home a little after 2 p.m. Terri was already in the house, on her laptop, when I arrived. I kissed K, grabbed some food, and worked from my home office until about 3:30, at which time I put shoes on Kand we started walking toward the bus stop."

No mention of what TH was wearing.

 

[gliving]

Hi Grandmaj,

This came about in an interview with Kaine about what TH wearing the same clothes when he got home as she was that morning. I gotta go back and look..He never really answered the question in regards to gym clothes, just that she'd been to the gym. But he never answered what kinda clothes she did have on that morning either...this was in and around 7/9, because I was curious and made a post as well....let me go look ! Thank You

Grandmaj, now I remember where I heard it. It was a teaser shown on HLN from Natisha Lance the weekend of July 10-11. She had an exclusive interview with Desiree and Kaine. The full show was supposed to air on Nancy Grace July 12, but was preempted for some Lindsay Lohan jail drama.

In the interview he says Terri was wearing the same clothing she had on in the morning. I and others posted about it at the time.

 

[BeanE]

Grandmaj, now I remember where I heard it. It was a teaser shown on HLN from Natisha Lance the weekend of July 10-11. She had an exclusive interview with Desiree and Kaine. The full show was supposed to air on Nancy Grace July 12, but was preempted for some Lindsay Lohan jail drama.

In the interview he says Terri was wearing the same clothing she had on in the morning. I and others posted about it at the time.

How about a link to the posts discussing it. Maybe we could track it down from there.

Thanks.

 

[Calliope]

I'll ask you for a link

Several people have stated this about the gym clothes. I've asked several times for a link, and nobody has yet provided one. I even posted a list of all the different articles with interviews I had searched for this info.

This is the only thing I've seen regarding Kaine coming home, I've not read anything where he describes what she was wearing. However, I DO remember discussion with posters wondering if she was wearing the same clothes as she had on that morning, so maybe the that's where the mix-up happened.

Q: Was Kaine working from home the day Kyron went missing? If so, when did Terri get home from the school?

A: KAINE – No, I was in the office that day until about 1:45 and arrived back home a little after 2pm. Terri was already in the house, on her laptop, when I arrived. I kissed baby, grabbed some food, and worked from my home office until about 3:30 at which time I put shoes on baby and we started walking down toward the bus stop.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24151901/detail.html

 

[gliving]

I'll ask you for a link

Several people have stated this about the gym clothes. I've asked several times for a link, and nobody has yet provided one. I even posted a list of all the different articles with interviews I had searched for this info.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5385529&postcount=107"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - If Terri didn't do it, then why.....[/ame]

BeanE, I don't think we can link to the full interview as it never aired. You'll just have to take my word for it. Sorry. :innocent:

 

[grandmaj]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - If Terri didn't do it, then why.....

BeanE, I don't think we can link to the full interview as it never aired. You'll just have to take my word for it. Sorry. :innocent:

gliving thanks for that link. OK let's just be careful. You heard it and posted it at the time, So we are going to use this as an unconfirmed report. Thanks so much Gram.

 

[BeanE]

gliving thanks for that link. OK let's just be careful. You heard it and posted it at the time, So we are going to use this as an unconfirmed report. Thanks so much Gram.

I found it!!!!!

Thank God for Google cache search lol.

http://www.livedash.com/transcript/hln_news/5100/HLN/Friday_July_9_2010/250687/

01:03:36 >> You said terri was home.
01:03:38 What was her demeanor?
01:03:39 >> She was working on her laptop when I got home.
01:03:42 Nothing out of the ordinary.
01:03:43 >> She had on the same clothes as earlier in the day?
01:03:45 >> Yeah.
01:03:46 She had gone to the gym, i believe, prior in the day and she still had her gym clothes on.


Also note that this is a source reference link that can be used for Terri's demeanor when Kaine got home. (Nothing out of the ordinary.)

BeanE