Timeline Discussion

[MBLover]

A cranky baby in need of medicine. Why go to the second branch and pass up the other drug stores on the way? Why park at the far end of the parking lot and take the time to show an aquantence a picture of a child she barely knew? Why keep driving further and further away from your house with a sick child? Perhaps it leads you further away from people you know, or people who know you.

From Pufnstuf's thread

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5523088&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Please help me get a timeline map together[/ame]

9:00 AM +/- - Terri at Fred Meyer 1, Imbrie Drive, Hillsboro, getting medicine for baby. Police looking for anyone who may have seen the truck there. LINK

9:12 AM - Terri checks out at FM 1. Claims to have a receipt to prove it.

9:30 - 10:00 AM - Terri at Fred Meyer 2, Walker Drive, Beaverton, as witness testifies at grand jury. Police looking for anyone who saw truck there. LINK

I hope I can make this make sense.

Cajun brings up a good point. If TH is trying to set up an alibi - why is she driving further away from an area in where she is known and is less likely to run into someone she knows? If one was trying to create an alibi wouldn't one make sure they were visible at all times and make sure people could account for their whereabouts?

This now makes sense to me that TH had done exactly what she said she was doing. The first store was out of the med she needed for baby K, so she drives to the next FM store. Sounds to me like she used that store brand of med because she knew that it worked. Why would she stop somewhere else to get something else that may not work? Some people are very loyal to certain brands - I know I am.

I'm sure Terri was hoping the med would work and possibly help baby K to rest and possibly take a nap. Maybe the med did work (for the pain) but did not put baby K to sleep.

I could see Terri driving around hoping that baby K would nap - at least for a while. And if baby K didn't go to sleep, but was no longer fussy, then why not make a stop at the gym?

I think we also need to account for the time that it takes to open the package of meds. We don't know exactly what TH bought. But I know the last OTC med I bought for my grandson it took me forever to open it - and I did this standing beside my vehicle so I could give him a dose before we left the parking lot.

 

[Nana46]

Has anybody seen a lunch mentioned in any of her timelines? Surely the little one had lunch at some point??????

 

[tehcloser]

But I think what we have to consider in her timeline is...the truck. Unless she handed an alive Kyron off to someone, then there has to be a scene. Had there been a dying or deceased Kyron in the truck, or even the possibility of that, LE would still have the truck. So you have to figure in "the rural" roads, and that chunk of time would be the most likely for the deed to have happened. Oh, pppfffttt, I know what I'm trying to say, but it's not coming out clear.

 

[debs]

If her gym was in the Beaverton area and the second FM was in the Beaverton area, seems to make sense to me that she'd head over to a store near where her gym is, since her goal that day was to progress down to the gym for her workout. People who work out like to do it at the same time every day for their routine.

The issue of lunch has come up a couple times. Though we're not given any information on it, I feel confident LE has cleared that up. As someone posted, baby bags could start the world over if there was ever a disaster. Most children are snackers and like to eat little meals throughout the day. I just can't imagine someone doing mundane errands with a toddler would not come prepared for that, so I'm comfortable with the notion that K was fed.

I'm sure we've all had times when we've got a lot of things that have to be done, regardless of a child's fussiness. Some times we just have to soldier through, and from Terri's email, it sure sounds like what she did that day.

I still don't think it's improbable to believe that Terri just took "a few minutes" to let K rest in the truck while she just took a break between errands and maybe read a book while she soothed K. Again, her email doesn't say she drove around to do it; just that she took a few minutes in the truck to try to get K to sleep.

 

[cypress]

IMHO, there is the problem of too much time and not enough.

From LE's perspective, the time Terri spent driving baby K around, and I believe it was less than 90 minutes, was too much time to be doing what she said she was doing, and yet, at the same time, however long she was doing that was not enough time to pick up and drop off Dede (or anyone else), murder and/or dispose of Kyron, and end up at the gym, presumably normal in appearance and demeanor.

We know that Terri ran into Andrea between 9:30 and 10. In a report of Terri's timeline, Terri's unverifiable time began at 10:10, and so I wonder if there is some sort of receipt that places her at the second FM or somewhere in that area. By Terri's account, she was headed to the gym at 11:20. When you take off time for her to drive from wherever to the gym, get the baby out of the truck, walk in, check in at the daycare, we're talking about less than 90 minutes, IMHO. Terri may be unaccounted for x amount of time, but she would still have to drive from wherever to the gym, so that's also x amount of time off the whole time that she wouldn't have been able to do anything nefarious.

IMHO, this is why Desiree and Kaine were convinced early on that she must've had an accomplice, because there isn't enough time for her to do it on her own, even if there is a chunk of time in the morning accounted for by Terri but unverifiable according to LE, DY, TY, and KH.

 

[pharmchick]

Was also wondering what kind of medicine she was shopping for at both FMs?... Additionally, most meds, (even OTC) specifically now say not to give to children 4 or younger....very curious as to what type of meds she was shopping for.....unless directed by a doctor or given a Rx...

Respectfully snipped. Good thoughts! I really feel that TH is talking about OTC rather than Rx. To get an Rx, she would have had to bring Baby K to the doctor, and I definitely don't see room in the timeline that morning. If Baby K was sick the day before, why wouldn't she have gotten any Rxs filled the day before? We live in an age of 24-hour pharmacies.

Working on that assumption, as lynmaree mentioned, there are very few options OTC for children under 6 - basically Tylenol and Motrin are the options for an earache. (Have we ruled out Baby K having an earache? Haven't heard it mentioned in awhile.) May or may not be relevant, but there was a major recall on Tylenol and Motrin back in April, and they haven't been on the shelves since, only store brands. The pharmacy I work for has had intermittent problems stocking our store brand at times due to the shortage this created, so maybe FM has too.... Someone else mentioned that maybe TH trusted the FM store brand because she was familiar with it, and I really do think that lots of parents have a deeply rooted brand loyalty based on experience.

So... all of this seems perfectly reasonable imo.... BUT.... if everything Terri did that day was considered reasonable and able to be easily verified by LE, why wouldn't they have cleared her name by now? They definitely have lots of information we don't. I love the idea of humanizing the timeline for some new perspective, but I really can't shake the feeling that she KNOWS how to lead LE to Kyron, even if she wasn't "directly" involved in the physical logistics of his disappearance.... :cursing:

 

[pugglesworth]

I have a really disturbing question. When is garbage pick-up at Fred Meyers or any other nearby places that would have a smelly dumpster in the back? That could be accomplished in less than 1 minute and fits in with timeline. Also the time that Kyron was supposedly in school, the truck would have been at the dump and back. Someone putting a large garbage bag into a dumspter is not out of place but MAY have been noticed...

I used to work for Freddy's. All the dumpsters are on security cameras. The company doesn't want the liability if someone goes "dumpster diving" and falls in, or eats something rotten and gets sick, or takes something we've marked out and gets electrocuted, etc. Also, as large of an employer as it is, they worry about employees marking stuff out as damaged and then retrieving it later. Security/loss prevention is pretty tight in those stores and I specifically remember surveilliance on the trash.

 

[Morag]

Presumably LE is working the timeline over and over, and they are still not entirely satisfied. Although they must know more than we do, they don't know enogh to pin down what really happened, neither when nor where. We now know that the DDS TH lookalike issue seems to be moot. We seem to know that DDS left her vehicle at her workplace. So if TH wasn't being imitated by DDS, and if DDS wasn't driving Kyron- in whatever condition- around in her vehicle, then what is DDS's part in this?

And if after 10 weeks of attempting to make a meal out of the ingredients they have, LE is still unable to do so, then how can we be so sure that they are on the right track? If no one saw Kyron leave the building, with or without Terri, isn't it just possible that he left the building in a container which was moved by someone else?

"Kaine Horman's white truck" is no longer in the possession of LE, so they don't believe a crime occurred in it, nor was a body carried in it. What's left?

Either a hand-off, in which there is a chance Kyron is still alive, or a random kidnapping by a predator.

Presumably they are running a parallel investigation about these possiblilities.

If it is the hand-off to someone for safe-keeping, why not immunize TH and/or DDH if Kyron is returned alive and unharmed? (Immunizing the 'someone' should also be on the table). Make the offer privately to the attorneys for the redheads, and then make it public. It wouldn't be the worse thing in the world for TH and DDS to be free if Kyron is also free.

 

[grandmaj]

What is going on in here? I think everyone needs to read this again. We have to be responsible and not get into far out theories with no basis....... You may theorize but there has to at least be some basis from MSM about it. Good Gollly Guys...... You can sleuth Terri and Dede but we can't make things up here. Post responsibly please.

--------------------------------

The only ones that we can sleuth at this time are TH and DDS. They haven't been officially named by LE as suspects, but Tricia feels that there is enough MSM information out there to allow them to be sleuthed.

As for anyone else, you can make your own assumptions about their behavior, but it must be backed up by something you've seen in the MSM.

This makes it hard because WW is coming out with all sorts of "family issue" type reporting. Just make sure you are staying within the realm of what is being reported as you post. Blatant statements that victims are responsible for Kyron's disappearance are not allowed unless something is reported in the MSM that makes such a statement.

Think about the statement from Rosemont Farms before you post about people in this case. That will help you a lot!

And comments about any minors in this case being involved are not allowed. Not even hints.

 

[kytty]

If she was just doing regular mommy errands and/or cleaning up poo that day, why couldn't she * conclusively * pass a lie detector test?

 

[loves2bmom]

I used to work for Freddy's. All the dumpsters are on security cameras. The company doesn't want the liability if someone goes "dumpster diving" and falls in, or eats something rotten and gets sick, or takes something we've marked out and gets electrocuted, etc. Also, as large of an employer as it is, they worry about employees marking stuff out as damaged and then retrieving it later. Security/loss prevention is pretty tight in those stores and I specifically remember surveilliance on the trash.

Yay... A FM employee!! This totally makes sense and now I am convinced there is a camera above the muffin shop at the FM Walker location! It's pointed directly at the dumpster!! Heading over to the FM thread now! Dorothy, are you reading this? You were spot on!

 

[cypress]

If she was just doing regular mommy errands and/or cleaning up poo that day, why couldn't she * conclusively * pass a lie detector test?

It's possible she did pass, but LE told her she didn't. It's possible she registered inconclusive because she was nervous. LDTs aren't foolproof. If she was the orchestrator of Kyron's disappearance, how could she only fail one portion of the LDT? If she's behind this, how did she pass any of it?

 

[craftybatchy]

Terri's emails: In addition: I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man “chaperone” and 2 girls after I left. I have a receipt showing I was checked out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away at 9:12am. I went to another FM looking for meds for Kitty they didn’t have at the first FM.

If Kyron was seen with a chaperone after TH left, where are those who may have seen them (Kyron, two girls, and said chaperone) together.

9:00 am is generally a busy time of day as far as traffic goes. You have a bunch of parents/buses leaving schools after drop-off. Probably a percentage of those parents & caregivers were also running errands at that time. Commercial areas tend to be traffic heavy during those hours. If TH left the school at 9:00 am, is it realistic to accept that she could drive to the first FM, not find what she needed, then to the second FM, locate her items, and be processed thru checkout all in 12 minutes....

As a side note .... WTH is it with this *man* chaperone business .. MALE chaperone. If she spell checked her emails or had an automatic grammar scan, I would think that a grammatical error such as that would have been noted. Just seems weird.

 

[debs]

If Kyron was seen with a chaperone after TH left, where are those who may have seen them (Kyron, two girls, and said chaperone) together.

9:00 am is generally a busy time of day as far as traffic goes. You have a bunch of parents/buses leaving schools after drop-off. Probably a percentage of those parents & caregivers were also running errands at that time. Commercial areas tend to be traffic heavy during those hours. If TH left the school at 9:00 am, is it realistic to accept that she could drive to the first FM, not find what she needed, then to the second FM, locate her items, and be processed thru checkout all in 12 minutes....

As a side note .... WTH is it with this *man* chaperone business .. MALE chaperone. If she spell checked her emails or had an automatic grammar scan, I would think that a grammatical error such as that would have been noted. Just seems weird.

She checked out of the first FM at 9:12, not the second one.

 

[kytty]

It's possible she did pass, but LE told her she didn't. It's possible she registered inconclusive because she was nervous. LDTs aren't foolproof. If she was the orchestrator of Kyron's disappearance, how could she only fail one portion of the LDT? If she's behind this, how did she pass any of it?

"She fully cooperated and took the first polygraph then subsequently vented her failed results to all family, friends, and law enforcement at the house. A few days later she cooperated and went to take a second polygraph test but got up and walked out before the machine portion of the test could be administered... again by her own statement to family, friends, and law enforcement at the house ...She continually pushed back and refused to repeat the second test for several days (approx. 8-10) before going to take the test and then once again coming back to the house and venting to all listeners."

Source: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kaine_horman_describes_how_ter.html

A majority of parents or step-parents with a missing child (who did not have anything to hide) would do whatever possible to cooperate with LE to find the missing child. This just doesn't sound like the actions of a person who has nothing to hide. JMO.


[/I]

 

[cluciano63]

As far as the truck not holding any evidence, it just must not hold any evidence of a crime; but not all crimes leave evidence, as we've discussed here.

I do think LE has a problem in such a tight timeline to try to find time enough in this morning of Terri's to commit a crime and manage to hide it. There really is not any time before the first receipt for her to have done much, even as far as "handing off" which I don't buy anyway. So either Kyron was with her all that time, or he never was.

 

[MysteryAddict]

She checked out of the first FM at 9:12, not the second one.

Do we have proof it was actually Terri who checked out of that FM at 9:12?
Just because she has the receipt doesn't prove it to me.

Did her cell ping at those two FM's at those times?

Also in the timeline--What happened to all the talk of her cell pinging at Sauvie
Island? I'd love for LE to tell us what time that happened!! It sure led them to
do plenty of searching there! Now it's not even mentioned anymore.

I always thought TH removed Kyron from the school herself and disposed of
him quickly. I can't see her driving around with him in the car! If there is any
truth to baby K being upset that day, I would attribute it to her having seen
something very bad happen to her big brother!

 

[BeanE]

Whatever happened to Albertson's? :waitasec:

Wouldn't it be something if the cell pinging at a different place was something like she said she was at Fred Meyers but she was really at Albertsons?

Managers of the Fred Meyer store in Hillsboro and the Albertsons on Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy. have confirmed they've submitted surveillance video and are cooperating with detectives.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/98147474.html

 

[loves2bmom]

Whatever happened to Albertson's? :waitasec:

Wouldn't it be something if the cell pinging at a different place was something like she said she was at Fred Meyers but she was really at Albertsons?

Managers of the Fred Meyer store in Hillsboro and the Albertsons on Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy. have confirmed they've submitted surveillance video and are cooperating with detectives.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/98147474.html

I was just thinking about Albertsons this morning....

 

[gliving]

Whatever happened to Albertson's? :waitasec:

Wouldn't it be something if the cell pinging at a different place was something like she said she was at Fred Meyers but she was really at Albertsons?

Managers of the Fred Meyer store in Hillsboro and the Albertsons on Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy. have confirmed they've submitted surveillance video and are cooperating with detectives.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/98147474.html

Goodness BeanE, if Terri was at Albertson's too, that would shorten her missing time line all the more.