Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #2

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US Coastguard have confirmed officially that based on the amount of oxygen provisions in the sub, the number of peopleand the time of submersion on Sunday, that oxygen levels will be fully depleted by 1pm (UK time) today. That's in 90 minutes as I post this. I am also assuming that this timing only applies in typical conditions, which may not necessarily be the case.

I am trying not to focus on this fact, but it is hard not to - I cannot imagine how difficult it must be for the rescue teams to remain hopeful. This incident - whatever the outcome - is going to be the catalyst for seismic change on multiple levels in various industries, not just oceanic tourism / development / research.

 

Titan submersible "is designed to come back up" after 24 hours, investor says​

From CNN's Emma Tucker

The Titan submersible that went missing en route to the Titanic wreck was designed to return to the surface after 24 hours, according to Aaron Newman, an investor in OceanGate who visited the site on the vessel in 2021.
Titan is held underwater by ballast — heavy weights that helps with a vessel’s stability — built to be automatically released after 24 hours to send the sub to the surface, Newman said.

CNN

Okay, what are the possibilities?

1: Implosion in deep water, and the submersible simply doesn’t exist any more.

2: It was snagged and held down by part of the wreckage, or something else, and can’t come to the surface.

3: It did come to the surface, but can’t be found. (Was blaze-orange paint too expensive?)

4: The automatic system to drop the ballast failed, along with whatever the main problem was.

Anything else?
 
Desperately sad.

Apologies, this has probably already been addressed but the threads are moving so quickly. I'm aware they lost communication 1hr 45 into the dive - does anyone know how often communications were expected? Is it safe to assume something happened at 1hr 45 into the dive? Or would it be normal to go 10-15 mins without contact between the two? That would be useful to gauge whether it ever made it to the wreck or not.
 
The ROV being loaded into the back of the aircraft at Jersey Airport

The Magellan ROV was used to create a digital scan of the Titanic, which lies 3,800m (12,500ft) down in the Atlantic.
A crane lifting the ROV at Jersey Airport

 
Okay, what are the possibilities?

1: Implosion in deep water, and the submersible simply doesn’t exist any more.

2: It was snagged and held down by part of the wreckage, or something else, and can’t come to the surface.

3: It did come to the surface, but can’t be found. (Was blaze-orange paint too expensive?)

4: The automatic system to drop the ballast failed, along with whatever the main problem was.

Anything else?
Thanks for sharing this list - helpful to see them laid out. A few others to suggest:

5: There has been an unusual jump in attacks by orcas / killer whales on vessels in the UK and European waters recently, almost 500 attacks of their kind off the Iberian peninsula alone (Source: LA Times). Scientists have been concerned that the behaviour might spread to the pods off the US East Coast and pacific waters. Killer Whales don't dive deeper than c.1400ft I believe, but there is the chance the vessel was bumped, potentially damaged and knocked off course on the way down (hence the distress alert during descent).

6: Malfunction of manual equipment which would hinder ascent/return

7: Health emergency on board? Although that wouldn't explain why the boat hasn't returned to the surface through the usual methods.
 
US Coastguard have confirmed officially that based on the amount of oxygen provisions in the sub, the number of peopleand the time of submersion on Sunday, that oxygen levels will be fully depleted by 1pm (UK time) today. That's in 90 minutes as I post this. I am also assuming that this timing only applies in typical conditions, which may not necessarily be the case.

I am trying not to focus on this fact, but it is hard not to - I cannot imagine how difficult it must be for the rescue teams to remain hopeful. This incident - whatever the outcome - is going to be the catalyst for seismic change on multiple levels in various industries, not just oceanic tourism / development / research.

If it's come to this and they can't find them, I really wish they died a long time ago and they didn't suffer.
 

'Time is what we are running out of'​

Pallab Ghosh
Science correspondent, BBC News

I've been speaking to a group of UK submersible experts this morning about the chances of a successful rescue.

Dr Rob Larter of the British Antarctic Survey said “although it’s a desperate situation, there’s hope, and you have to stay optimistic for as long as possible”.

He explained that it was impossible for the ships on the sea surface to find the Titan using sonar, because it was so small.

And the only undersea remotely operated vehicle (ROV) capable of working at the required depth, the Victor 6000 had arrived on the scene just last night.

He noted the banging sounds first heard on Wednesday had not led to the search area being narrowed.

Prof Alistair Greig from University College London said that if the Titan was found trapped in wreckage on the sea bed it would normally take two hours for it to rise to the surface under its natural buoyancy once it had been released by an ROV.

“Every step takes time and time is what we are running out of,” he said.

 

The vessels involved in the search​

The search operation is made up of US and Canadian agencies, navies and commercial deep-sea firms are all helping the rescue operation, which is being run from Boston, Massachusetts.

They all have different capabilities, and here's what we know about each one:

Deep Energy - Commercial cable-laying ship with two ROVs that can operate down to 3,000m (10,000ft)

Atlantic Merlin - Canadian offshore supply vessel with 4,000m winch system. Carries ROVs but it's unknown how deep they can operate

Skandi Vinland - Subsea support vessel with two ROVs but it's unknown how deep they can operate

L'Atalante - French-operated ship heading to the scene with an ROV that can operate at depth of Titanic wreckage

Horizon Arctic - Commercial vessel loaded with support equipment

Glace Bay - Canadian naval ship carrying decompression chamber and ready to provide medical assistance

John Cabot - Scientific research vessel with sonar search capabilities operated by the Canadian Coast Guard

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'Industry needs to look in on itself' - Oceanographer​

A notable marine biologist and oceanographer says the incident should be a learning experience for the industry.

David Mearns is nicknamed 'the shipwreck hunter', and has helped solve a number of major maritime mysteries.

Speaking to the BBC, he says: "I certainly feel that now an investigation obviously should
happen."

"This sort of thing we cannot allow to happen, and my industry needs to look in on itself and reflect on bringing passengers to such remote locations and such great depths because if things go wrong, there are very, very few options to make a recovery."

He says in hindsight, the fact the Titan was not safety certified is a "cause for concern".

"Would I choose a vessel without a classification? It’s not even allowed. I think that answers that," he adds.

 

Reaching sub will take hours once it's found - explorer​

Deep-sea explorer Dr David Gallo believes it would take a miracle to rescue those trapped in Titan, but he remains optimistic.

He told ITV's Good Morning Britain that the noises coming from underwater are "credible and repeatable" meaning teams need to assume they are coming from the submersible and move quickly to locate it.

"We have to, at this point, assume that that's the submarine and move quickly to that spot, locate it and get robots down there to verify that is where the submarine is," he said.

"They've got to go fully ready as if that was the sub because to locate it and get it up to the surface - it takes hours."


Search sub being sent from Jersey - but it'll take 48 hours​

Rebecca Morelle
Science editor
An ROV from UK company Magellan being loaded onto a C17 plane at Jersey Airport

1687432592773.png


Copyright: BBC
An ROV from UK company Magellan being loaded onto a C17 plane at Jersey AirportImage caption: An ROV from UK company Magellan being loaded onto a C17 plane at Jersey Airport


A remotely operated vehicle (ROV) from UK company Magellan is currently at Jersey Airport and due to be flown to the search site later today.

Their sub – called Juliet – recently scanned the Titanic wreck, producing a 3D view of the entire ship.

Once it leaves, it will take about 48 hours to get to the site – which is beyond the timeline given for air for the passengers.

It will be able to dive the full depth of the site, and the team has a detailed knowledge of the deep sea area having been there recently.

The sub has been ready to leave since earlier in the week but has been held up by permissions.

 
Desperately sad.

Apologies, this has probably already been addressed but the threads are moving so quickly. I'm aware they lost communication 1hr 45 into the dive - does anyone know how often communications were expected? Is it safe to assume something happened at 1hr 45 into the dive? Or would it be normal to go 10-15 mins without contact between the two? That would be useful to gauge whether it ever made it to the wreck or not.
The descent would normally take 2 hours, with a 'ping' being sent from the submersible every 15 minutes during that time.

Here is a timeline of key events since then (Source: The Guardian).


SUNDAY 18th June

8am GMT/3am ET:
Time the submersible originally aimed to start its descent, according to a post by Harding on Instagram. It actually started its descent later, according to the US Coast Guard.

12pm GMT/7am ET: The submersible starts what should be a two-hour descent to the Titanic wreck, nearly 4,000 metres down, according to the US Coast Guard.

1.45pm GMT/8.45am ET: Communications between the submersible and the surface vessel are lost 1 hour and 45 minutes after starting its descent.

7pm GMT/2pm ET: Titan is scheduled to return to the surface, the US Coast Guard says but fails to appear.

9.40pm GMT/4.40pm ET: US Coast Guard receives report about an overdue submersible from the research vessel Polar Prince about 900 nautical miles east of Cape Cod on the US coast.


MONDAY 19th June

US and Canadian ships and planes are swarming the area, some dropping sonar buoys that can monitor to a depth of almost 4,000 metres, US Coast Guard R Adm John Mauger says. Officials have also asked commercial vessels for help.

TUESDAY 20th June

2.50pm GMT/9am ET:
France says it will help with search by deploying Atalante, a ship equipped with a deep-sea diving vessel. It is expected to arrive late on Wednesday.

During the day: Sounds detected over several hours by Canadian Lockheed P-3 Orion aircraft, equipped with gear to trace submarines. CNN and Rolling Stone magazine report banging sounds at 30-minute intervals had been detected.


WEDNESDAY 21st June

US Coast Guard, US Navy, Canadian Coast Guard and OceanGate Expeditions establish a unified command to handle the search.

6am GMT/1am ET: US Coast Guard confirms Canadian P-3 aircraft detected underwater noises. It says remotely operated vehicle (ROV) searches are directed to the area of the sounds and the data is also sent to US Navy experts for analysis.

Late on Wednesday: More vessels, including a French research ship, equipped with a deep-sea diving vessel, were due to arrive to assist the “complex response effort”, which covers an area twice the size of Connecticut.


THURSDAY 22nd June

10am GMT/5am ET:
Approximate deadline for when the air in the submersible will run out, based on the US Coast Guard’s estimate that the Titan could have up to 96 hours of air supply from the time it was sealed.

ETA: Obviously we know the approximate deadline re oxygen was updated by US Coastguard today to around 1pm UK time.
 
From 3h ago

Experts warn time is running out with search area still vast​

I’ve just been listening in to a very useful briefing from the Science Media Centre, in which the speakers were Prof Alistair Greig, professor of marine engineering at University College London, Dr Jamie Pringle, reader in Forensic Geosciences at Keele University and, Dr Rob Larter, a marine geophysicist with the British Antarctic Survey.

1687433006463.png
Asked about the huge size of the search area, Larter said: “We’ve all seen the reports of these sounds that have been detected, but the fact that the search areas still seems to be so large would seem to indicate that nobody thinks they have confidently been able to locate where those sounds are coming from.”

Given the lack of information from the seabed, said Greig, “I’d say we’re still pretty much where we were on Monday really, in terms of the search I guess”.

1687433006463.png
Asked about how long it could take to bring the sub to the surface were it found, Greig said: “I don’t know how long it would take but in a normal operating scenario, I think it takes about two hours to get down to depth … and about two hours again [to come up].”

1687433006463.png
Asked about his assessment of the chances of a successful rescue mission, Greig said: “I think the key thing is that they can find it … but it’s not going to be instantaneous; every step takes time – this is the problem. And we’re running out of time.”

Pringle said: “There’s always hope with these things but you know about the ‘golden first 24 hours’ – and we’re well past that stage. There’s always a chance – it’s never zero – but I think obviously in the long run, the longer the time that elapses, the lower the chances of success. That’s with anything from earthquake survival to searches. When it goes from a rescue to a recovery, I guess the coastguards will make that choice. But that will happen at some point.”

Larter said: “It’s just a desperate situation. It’s kind of unimaginable if people are alive, trapped in a submersible with oxygen supplies running down. It doesn’t bear thinking about. An objective assessment of where things are at the moment? It doesn’t look good. But I think as Jamie said, you have to try to stay optimistic for as long as possible.”

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Asked how long it could take to find Titan, Larter said: “How long is a piece of string? To find an object of this size in 3,800-metre water depth, it potentially could take weeks of intense survey. It very much depends on how tightly the area that has to be searched is defined.”

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Asked whether the disappearance of Titan could spell the end of deep sea tourism, Larter said: “I think when people look at it afterwards, this will no doubt trigger an investigation and I think this may prove to be a key moment in thinking about how such activities are regulated in the future. It’s clear from the reports I’ve read that there is a lack of regulation governing what people can put in the water.”

Greig added: “I think there are two issues here: there’s the regulation issue we’ve just heard about but there’s also the potential customer base – it may put people off wanting to pay to go on these trips.”

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Asked if we were any closer to knowing what had gone wrong, Greig said: “I think the only thing we know that went wrong is that they lost communications. Beyond that, we don’t know. We’re not even sure yet whether it’s on the surface or the seabed, which is complicating the search.”

 
22m ago

Update:
the ship carrying the Victor 6000 deep-sea robot has arrived at the Titan search zone, according to Ifremer, the state-run French ocean research institute that operates the robot. The research vessel Atalante is first using an echo-sounder to accurately map the seabed in order for the robot’s search to be more targeted, Ifremer said.

 
30m ago

A British submariner and equipment from a UK firm will help the search for the missing Titan submersible, Downing Street has said.

A No 10 spokesman said: “At the request of US Coastguard, the UK has embedded a Royal Navy submariner to assist the search and rescue effort for the missing submarine.

The officer, Lt Cmdr Richard Kantharia, “has significant knowledge of submarine warfare and dived operations and so he will obviously be bringing that experience to the search and rescue team”.

The officer was on exchange with the US navy and has been seconded to the search and rescue team.

A British C-17 aircraft will transport “specialist commercial equipment” provided by Magellan to St John’s in Newfoundland to assist with the search-and-rescue effort.

(Via PA)

 

Search vehicle reaches sea floor as teams race to find sub​

From CNN's Gloria Pazmino

A remote operated vehicle “has reached the sea floor” and has begun searching for the missing Titanic submersible early Thursday morning, according to the US Coast Guard.
“The Canadian vessel Horizon Arctic has deployed an ROV that has reached the sea floor and began its search for the missing sub,” the US Coast Guard tweeted.
It added that “The French vessel L'Atalante is preparing their ROV to enter the water.”


!!!!!!!!!
JMO
 
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