Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

[crhedBngr]

Interesting, considering it was 8 hours later that OceanGate contacted the Coast Guard. So did the Navy know about the submersible's lost communications before the Coast Guard? Or does the Navy make regular recordings, which they were then able to go back and listen to afterward (starting around the time of the sub's last communication)?

Maybe it says in the article, but it's behind a paywall.

I'll link the New York Times' article and snag the paragraph that might help answer your questions.

From the below-linked article (updated 23 minutes ago):

The U.S. Navy, using data from a secret network of underwater sensors designed to track hostile submarines, detected “an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion” in the vicinity of the Titan submersible at the time communications with the vessel were lost on Sunday, two senior Navy officials said on Thursday.

But with no other indications of a catastrophe, one of the officials said, the search was continued.

Both officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss operational details, said that the analysis of undersea acoustic data and information about the location of the noise had been shared with the Coast Guard official in charge of the search.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/06/22/us/titanic-missing-submarine

JMVHO.

 

[MyJoey]

Ballard and Cameron were both on the same page and didn't question what either thought about the moment of the implosion, and that for me spoke volumes. Sad for the families involved, such great losses.

Ditto I appreciated hearing them. I’ve had so much anxiety the last few days, can’t imagine what the families were feeling . Hopefully it helps to know they didn’t suffer.

 

[LinasK]

I’m referring to “an explosion goes outward as opposed to an implosion that goes inwards” What does that mean? Inwards to what, the vessel? I’m trying to visualize it, it still has to come out so at what point does it go from an implosion to explosion?

My understanding is that the water pressure makes it crush inward.

 

[JDG]

An expert on CBS explained to a talking head that while the titanium parts were discernible it’s possible the carbon fiber hull may have shredded and if so won’t be found intact. The interviewer didn’t ask about the remains.

Thanks for the potato chips bag analogy! Had it been a steel or titanium hull I’d envision it kind of like a crushed pop can but I don’t know if that’s accurate.

You are very welcome!

A crushed pop can is good…

 

[arielilane]

Includes video: Bob Ballard reacts to 'catastrophic implosion' of Titanic submersible

Probe seeks answers on why Titanic sub imploded, killing all aboard

U.S. Coast Guard officials conceded crews are facing a daunting investigation to determine what caused the Titan submersible to implode underwater.

abcnews.go.com

June 22, 2023, 6:01 PM

As the search-and-rescue efforts became a recovery mission Thursday, U.S. Coast Guard officials conceded they are facing a daunting investigation to determine what caused the Titan submersible to implode underwater near the wreckage of the Titanic, killing all five explorers aboard.

After searching for five days for the OceanGate Expedition vessel, Coast Guard Rear Adm. John Mauger announced that a "catastrophic event" doomed the five men aboard the minisub.

 

[arielilane]

Rest in Peace, #Titan crew.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672028666996441088

https://twitter.com/WFLAJosh

 

[arielilane]

Now we hear this? U.S. Navy Heard What It Believed Was Titan Implosion Days Ago

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672027792668516354

Paywall

https://twitter.com/WFLAJosh

 

[MassGuy]

top secret military acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard what the U.S. Navy suspected was the Titan submersible implosion hours after the submersible began its voyage, officials involved in the search said.

The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance Sunday, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the Coast Guard commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.

WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Navy Heard What It Believed Was Titan Implosion Days Ago

Underwater microphones designed to detect enemy submarines first heard the suspected implosion just hours after the submersible began its voyage.

www.wsj.com

 

[10ofRods]

An expert on CBS explained to a talking head that while the titanium parts were discernible it’s possible the carbon fiber hull may have shredded and if so won’t be found intact. The interviewer didn’t ask about the remains.

Thanks for the potato chips bag analogy! Had it been a steel or titanium hull I’d envision it kind of like a crushed pop can but I don’t know if that’s accurate.

Since the tube was of a stronger material than my soda can, I find myself envisioning it as a can, too. But in relative terms (compared to the ocean), the Titan was made of laminated tissue paper - dependent entirely on not having any seam breached or any materials fail.

The potato chips bag analogy is indeed a great one. I'm going to steal it. If the chips are completely ground to dust under our stomping foot, when we open the bag we won't see any chips and the particles will be everywhere (and in water, all the particles are dispersing throughout the oceans).

IMO.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I’m referring to “an explosion goes outward as opposed to an implosion that goes inwards” What does that mean? Inwards to what, the vessel? I’m trying to visualize it, it still has to come out so at what point does it go from an implosion to explosion?

Ah. I'm sorry, earlier I misunderstood what you were asking when you asked if it was "contained." I thought you were asking what would happen to the bodies, not about the implosion itself.

If you've seen Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, there's a scene where Indiana Jones is trapped in a room with the walls and ceiling closing in. That's what happens in an implosion. The implosive force crushes eveything into a much smaller space.

In the Indiana Jones movie the walls and ceiling close in slowly, but if you can imagine them closing in really quickly (in a fraction of a second) and crashing together with huge energy and speed, the walls and ceiling would not only crush whatever had been in the room, but would also smash themselves and the whole room to pieces.

That's what happens when a submersible implodes. The water rushes in with such force that it crushes/smashes anything in its path. The energy of the implosion isn't contained, it's dissipated as the water crashes together and tears the submersible apart.

 

[JennieM]

US navy says it picked up ‘anomaly’ hours after sub began mission – as it happened

Anomaly ‘consistent with an implosion’ was detected near where craft was operating when it lost communications

www.theguardian.com

According to Reuters, the liability waivers signed by passengers aboard the Titan may not shield OceanGate from lawsuits.

Reuters reports:

Waivers are not always ironclad, and it is not uncommon for judges to reject them if there is evidence of gross negligence or hazards that were not fully disclosed. “If there were aspects of the design or construction of this vessel that were kept from the passengers or it was knowingly operated despite information that it was not suitable for this dive, that would absolutely go against the validity of the waiver,” said personal injury attorney and maritime law expert Matthew D Shaffer, who is based in Texas. OceanGate could argue it was not grossly negligent and that the waivers apply because they fully described the dangers inherent in plumbing the deepest reaches of the ocean in a submersible the size of a minivan.
The degree of any potential negligence and how that might impact the applicability of the waivers will depend on the causes of the disaster, which are still under investigation.
“There are so many different examples of what families might still have claims for despite the waivers, but until we know the cause we can’t determine whether the waivers apply,” said personal injury lawyer Joseph Low of California.

 

[mickey2942]

This entire situation is a bit confusing, did they consider the craft a "passenger" sub? Or did they consider the sub a private craft, for "explorers" and employees of OceanGate? Is that way there was no review of safety procedures?

 

[JennieM]

US Navy 'detected implosion noise'

The US Navy detected “an acoustic anomaly consistent with an implosion” shortly after the Titan lost contact with the surface, an official has told CBS News, the BBC's US partner.

The information was relayed to the US Coast Guard, which used it to narrow the radius of its search, the official added.

The banging that was reported earlier is now thought to have been coming from other ships in the area, CBS reports.


Sound could have been detected by underwater microphones used to listen for atomic weapons

Jonathan Amos
Science correspondent

It’s clear now that those “banging” noises we’ve been talking about over the past two days were spurious.

They weren’t the result of the crew of the OceanGate Titan hitting the metal parts of the sub to attract attention.

We know this because the crew would have been killed instantly in the implosion, and that implosion was loud enough that it very definitely would have been picked up on the search forces’ listening devices at the sea surface.

And they heard no such event, meaning the implosion must have happened before search forces turned up on Sunday.

We saw something similar in 2017 when the Argentinian naval submarine, the San Juan, went missing off the country’s coast.

There were reports of banging noises back then, too. But that submarine, like the Titan, also suffered an implosion.

Interestingly, the moment of the San Juan’s demise was eventually established in a trawl of acoustic data recorded by hydrophones, or underwater microphones, that had been placed on the seafloor.

Those same hydrophones, which are used to listen for illicit atomic weapons tests, may well have picked up the end of the OceanGate Titan.

They could give us an exact timing for when the tragedy occurred. The evidence of where the debris was sited indicated it was around the time on Sunday when communications between the sub and its support ship went down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65967464

 

[Betty P]

US navy says it picked up ‘anomaly’ hours after sub began mission – as it happened

Anomaly ‘consistent with an implosion’ was detected near where craft was operating when it lost communications

www.theguardian.com

According to Reuters, the liability waivers signed by passengers aboard the Titan may not shield OceanGate from lawsuits.

Reuters reports:

In the interview linked previously, both Bob Ballard and James Cameron said the OceanGate should have sought certification. They all felt his sub design was flawed and dangerous and he should not have been allowed to take passengers. They also said that type of design and materials won't work on the deep dives.

Cameron said it was unbelievable that the guy had a kind of "warning system" that would sound an alarm if the sub was being breached. There's no way you have time to get to the surface before an implosion. Very irresponsible.

Probe seeks answers on why Titanic sub imploded, killing all aboard

U.S. Coast Guard officials conceded crews are facing a daunting investigation to determine what caused the Titan submersible to implode underwater.

abcnews.go.com

 

[JennieM]

In the interview linked previously, both Bob Ballard and James Cameron said the OceanGate should have sought certification. They all felt his sub design was flawed and dangerous and he should not have been allowed to take passengers. They also said that type of design and materials won't work on the deep dives.

Cameron said it was unbelievable that the guy had a kind of "warning system" that would sound an alarm if the sub was being breached. There's no way you have time to get to the surface before an implosion. Very irresponsible.

I imagine they will be found liable.

 

[Betty P]

This entire situation is a bit confusing, did they consider the craft a "passenger" sub? Or did they consider the sub a private craft, for "explorers" and employees of OceanGate? Is that way there was no review of safety procedures?

The owner was trying to finesse the regulations to make it seem like they weren't passengers, but "crew members". I doubt a judge will agree. Seems likely the company will be declaring bankruptcy soon. JMO

 

[Kemug]

Just woken up to this news - so tragic. But to know that they didn't suffer is a comfort, and will certainly help their grieving families at this time.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

American newspaper The Wall Street Journal reported a top secret US Navy acoustic detection system heard the Titan sub implosion hours after it began its mission to the Titanic wreck site.

In a statement to the Journal, a US navy official said: “The US Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost.”

Titanic submersible search as it happened: Titan debris found, shows ‘catastrophic loss of pressure’, US Coast Guard says

The search for the missing submersible has culminated in the discovery of vessel debris following a catastrophic implosion. All five passengers are confirmed dead.

www.theage.com.au

“We’re going to continue the sight of the debris field, and I know there’s a lot of questions about how, why and when this happened,” said Mauger.

“Those are questions that we will collect as much information as we can on now, while the governments are meeting and discussing what an investigation of this nature of casualty might look like.”

“This is something that happened in a remote part of the ocean with people from several different countries from around the world, so it is a complex case.

‘Catastrophic implosion’ doomed missing Titan submersible, says US Coast Guard

Once the debris field was found, US authorities “immediately notified the families” that the five passengers on the Titan were believed to be dead.

www.smh.com.au

 

[zencompass]

Ditto I appreciated hearing them. I’ve had so much anxiety the last few days, can’t imagine what the families were feeling . Hopefully it helps to know they didn’t suffer.

Dear @MyJoey,

I feel the same way and hope there is comfort in knowing they didn't suffer.

The families would have been counting down the hours of oxygen levels as we all were.

I can't fathom the extent of the family members suffering over the past 4 days. So incredibly traumatic.

My heart goes out to the wife of Shahzada Dawood, and her 19-year-old son Suleman Dawood .

May the family members be surrounded by love, strength and comfort.

 

[LinasK]

In the interview linked previously, both Bob Ballard and James Cameron said the OceanGate should have sought certification. They all felt his sub design was flawed and dangerous and he should not have been allowed to take passengers. They also said that type of design and materials won't work on the deep dives.

Cameron said it was unbelievable that the guy had a kind of "warning system" that would sound an alarm if the sub was being breached. There's no way you have time to get to the surface before an implosion. Very irresponsible.

Probe seeks answers on why Titanic sub imploded, killing all aboard

U.S. Coast Guard officials conceded crews are facing a daunting investigation to determine what caused the Titan submersible to implode underwater.

abcnews.go.com

The viewing window wasn't depth rated for the depth that they were going to, and the rinkydink joystick game controller and using construction pipes for ballast weight led to Josh Gates and another man backing out of doing voyages on it, and Josh- who has an adventure show on Discovery had been on one of the maiden voyages of it. It was referred to as Mcguyvering it.