Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

[LinasK]

The more that I read about the CEO, the more I think about Elizabeth Holmes. I may be totally off base and if so, I’m sure someone here will enlighten me. It’s no doubt that he was intelligent and skilled. I was already having some thoughts like this but reading the texts between him and JB really took my mind there.

Millionaire says OceanGate CEO offered him discount tickets on sub to Titanic, claimed it was safer than scuba diving

The seats Jay Bloom and his son turned down went instead to Shahzada Dawood and his 19-year-old son, who both died when the sub imploded.

www.cbsnews.com

Bingo! I had the exact same thought and told my husband so earlier today. Rush did the same thing as Holmes in risking people's lives and cutting corners. "Fake it until you make it".

 

[HMSHood]

What Is Carbon Fiber - Learn About Fabric vs Sheets

Carbon fiber (also known as carbon fibre) Is one of the strongest and most lightweight materials available on the market today. Learn about the advantages today

protechcomposites.com

From the link above.

• Carbon fiber will break or shatter when it’s compressed, pushed beyond its strength capabilities, or exposed to high impact. It will crack if hit by a hammer. Machining and holes can also create weak areas that may increase its likelihood of breaking.

 

[HMSHood]

‘Titanic’ director James Cameron blames submersible’s carbon-fiber hull for deadly implosion

“Titanic” director James Cameron blamed the vulnerable carbon fiber composite construction hull of the doomed OceanGate submersible for its tragic implosion on Friday.

nypost.com

From the link above.

Brizzolara said the carbon fiber element is “very prone to possible defects” and “exhibits a more fragile behavior” than other materials that could have been used.

Meanwhile, a writer who was slated to travel on the Titan in May claimed Rush told him the hull was constructed with discounted carbon fiber from Boeing that had passed its airplane shelf-life.

Arnie Weissman, editor-in-chief of Travel Weekly, wrote this week that Rush dismissed concerns about the materials, arguing that airlines discarded them prematurely.

OceanGate said it “successfully validated” Titan’s carbon fiber and titanium hull to a depth of 4,000 meters, or 13,123 feet, according to a 2018 Facebook post.

 

[Luna20]

Interesting legal info here:

Thomas Schoenbaum, a University of Washington law professor and author of the book “Admiralty and Maritime Law,” said such documents may be upheld in court if they are worded well.

At the same time, OceanGate could still face repercussions under the Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993, Schoenbaum said. But it may depend on which arm of OceanGate owned the Titan submersible.

Rush, the late OceanGate CEO, told AP in 2021 that it was an American company. But he said OceanGate Expeditions, which led dives to the Titanic, was based in the Bahamas.

Schoenbaum said the Bahamas subsidiary has the potential to circumvent U.S. law, but courts have at times “pierced the corporate veil” and OceanGate could be found liable.

OceanGate Expeditions, which led dives to the Titanic, was based in the Bahamas.

The countries where lawsuits may be filed could also depend on contracts signed by passengers and crew.

“I would be very surprised, in a high-risk operation like this, if the contract did not address which law applies and where any claim can be filed,” said George Rutherglen, a professor of admiralty law at the University of Virginia.

And more at link

Tourist sub's implosion draws attention to murky regulations of deep-sea expeditions

The fatal implosion of the Titan submersible has drawn attention to the murkily regulated...

www.beaumontenterprise.com

I have no legal knowledge but do you know if they can they go after OG now that they have ceased to exist?

 

[Charlot123]

The filmmaker, who has made more than 30 dives to the wreckage of the Titanic, said he knew an "extreme catastrophic event" had happened as soon as he heard the submersible had lost navigation and communications during its descent.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672306526973730827

https://twitter.com/WTHRcom

'Titanic' director James Cameron says he knew days ago missing sub imploded

“Titanic” director James Cameron told the BBC he "knew the truth on Monday morning" that the submersible imploded.

www.wthr.com

Updated: 2:25 PM EDT June 23, 2023

LONDON, UK — “Titanic” director James Cameron says the search operation for a deep-sea tourist sub turned into a “nightmarish charade” that prolonged the agony of the families of the passengers.

Cameron told the BBC in an interview broadcast on Friday that he "felt in my bones” that the Titan submersible had been lost soon after he heard it had lost contact with the surface during its descent to the wreckage of the ocean liner at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

He said focus in the media over the next few days about the submersible having 96 hours of oxygen supply — and that banging noises had been heard — were a “prolonged and nightmarish charade.”

“That was just a cruel, slow turn of the screw for four days as far as I’m concerned,” he said. "Because I knew the truth on Monday morning.”

TBH, I thought of an implosion when I read that the Ocean Gate waited for 8 hours to alert the Coast Guard. And that brought back to my memory the situation that I, several days ago,
promised to mention later, when all would be said and done. I was thinking about the catastrophe of the Kursk submarine and the 23 crew members that survived it. There is probably nothing worse, thought I, than to wait for the help, and then in won't come, and slowly die there, and considering that all don't die at the same time...it would have been horrific. Because I had an intuitive feeling that Titan passengers had perished, I hoped their death was instant.

There is one thing that we forget to mention. With Rush's nonchalant approach, he seemed to view the submersion as a family entertainment. First, a LV developer with his son, then, Dawood and his son. I know that Rush must have seen some risks. Perhaps he didn't want to be viewed a loser who couldn't pull his enterprise off the floor, but he must have foreseen some. Even in the ancient times, the warriors departing to Thermopylae were an older group, every one having left a living heir at home, not to cut short a single line. I understand, Dawood believed Rush's fast sale and smooth talk. But Rush? He goes into history like a person who absolutely had to fill that $ 150 K - chair.

 

[Sundog]

Lll0pppppp

TBH, I thought of an implosion when I read that the Ocean Gate waited for 8 hours to alert the Coast Guard. Maybe, thought I, they saw/heard something, maybe felt a strong wave, but they must have known something happened. And that brought back to my memory the situation that I, several days ago,
promised to mention later, when all would be said and done. I was thinking about the explosion of the Kursk submarine and the 23 crew members that survived it. There is probably nothing worse, thought I, than to wait for the help, and then in won't come, and slowly die there, and considering that all don't die at the same time...it would have been horrific. Because I had an intuitive feeling that they Titanic passengers perished, I hoped their death was instant.

There is one thing that we forget to mention. With Rush's nonchalant approach, he seemed to view the submersion as a family entertainment. First, a LV developer with his son, then, Dawood and his son. I know that Rush must have seen some risks. Perhaps he didn't want to be viewed a loser who couldn't pull his enterprise off the floir, but he must have foreseen some. Even in the ancient times, the warriors departing to Thermopylae were older group and all left a living heir at home, not to cut short a single line. I understand, Dawood believed Rush's fast sale. But Rush? He goes into history like a person who absolutely had to fill that $ 150 K - chair.

From the research and reading I have been doing, it looks like it isn't rare in the dive community or in other risky adventures for father and son to go on these expeditions together. Hamish Harding took his son on a South Pole expedition, and another operator of submersibles took his own 12 year old son on a dive to the Titanic, and now that son at 12 years old has made it into the Guinness Book of World Records as the youngest person to go on a dive to the Titanic.

There could have been another young person/son on board the Titan on this trip. It's a blessing that there wasn't.

 

[Sundog]

At some point, perhaps after the funerals and memorial services for those who died on Titan, the family members may want to visit the site where the submersible was launched into the water from aboard the Polar Prince. I would think that they may want to go there and leave messages or flowers or some momentos in the ocean as part of their saying goodbye at their loved ones' finally resting place.

Just thinking about the human and personal side of this tragedy as the investigations continue and we learn more about the circumstances that may have led to this outcome. There are wives, sons, daughters, parents, cousins, aunts and uncles, god children, friends, colleagues, classmates, teachers, and so many others whose lives have been impacted across the world by the loss of these five individuals.

JMO, but I would need to go there as part of the grieving and healing process.

 

[LadyL]

No. Just no. Let them rest in peace. MOO

It is unclear when the powerful underwater implosion occurred during the Titan’s journey to the wreckage 12,500 feet below the ocean’s surface — but due to the nature of the disaster, recovery efforts are extremely difficult.

“This is an incredibly unforgiving environment down there on the sea floor and the debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel,” Rear Adm. John Mauger of the US Coast Guard said at a press conference Thursday.

excuse the insensitivity of my comment here but why would there be anything left to find of their bodies if there was a catastrophic implosion of the Titan?

 

[Boxer]

‘Titanic’ director James Cameron blames submersible’s carbon-fiber hull for deadly implosion

“Titanic” director James Cameron blamed the vulnerable carbon fiber composite construction hull of the doomed OceanGate submersible for its tragic implosion on Friday.

nypost.com

From the link above.

Brizzolara said the carbon fiber element is “very prone to possible defects” and “exhibits a more fragile behavior” than other materials that could have been used.

Meanwhile, a writer who was slated to travel on the Titan in May claimed Rush told him the hull was constructed with discounted carbon fiber from Boeing that had passed its airplane shelf-life.

Arnie Weissman, editor-in-chief of Travel Weekly, wrote this week that Rush dismissed concerns about the materials, arguing that airlines discarded them prematurely.

OceanGate said it “successfully validated” Titan’s carbon fiber and titanium hull to a depth of 4,000 meters, or 13,123 feet, according to a 2018 Facebook post.

There was a brief report about the Titan saying they were dropping ballast in their last message. A likely reason for that would be to slow their descent.
If they were descending too rapidly and they could not slow down enough, a hard landing might have done them in.

 

[heavenly2012]

I would need to visit the scene, if I was family too. To say goodbye.

 

[JDG]

excuse the insensitivity of my comment here but why would there be anything left to find of their bodies if there was a catastrophic implosion of the Titan?

They are now part of the ocean. Nothing to see but water.

Humans are 70% water when intact.

 

[ifindedout]

excuse the insensitivity of my comment here but why would there be anything left to find of their bodies if there was a catastrophic implosion of the Titan?

That's OK, that's what I was implying.

 

[crhedBngr]

There was a brief report about the Titan saying they were dropping ballast in their last message. A likely reason for that would be to slow their descent.
If they were descending too rapidly and they could not slow down enough, a hard landing might have done them in.

RBBM

Source, please?

JMVHO.

 

[KooshBall]

The more that I read about the CEO, the more I think about Elizabeth Holmes. I may be totally off base and if so, I’m sure someone here will enlighten me. It’s no doubt that he was intelligent and skilled. I was already having some thoughts like this but reading the texts between him and JB really took my mind there.

Millionaire says OceanGate CEO offered him discount tickets on sub to Titanic, claimed it was safer than scuba diving

The seats Jay Bloom and his son turned down went instead to Shahzada Dawood and his 19-year-old son, who both died when the sub imploded.

www.cbsnews.com

Absolutely not. Do you think Holmes would have risked her health by trusting results of a machine she knew was a con? Rush obviously believed in his contraption if he got on it with plans to return. I don't think he was evil and set out to kill people. I don't think he was trying to con people for money, he had a passion and was blinded possibly by ego and excitement. Holmes is a sociopath, she even had kids just to push back having to serve her sentence. I think many are being disrespectful to a man who just passed away, and was loved by his friends and family. I get being angry at his decisions that led to this tragic event, but making him out to be an evil, scheming, grifter isn't right imo. He didn't hide that he bought used carbon fiber, he didn't hide that he thought he knew better than experts. Would someone set out on intentionally conning people freely admit these things?

All these people that are acting like they knew this would happen didn't exactly go out of their way to alert the general public. If I truly believed people were going to die if they got in this sub, I would have gone out of my way to make people aware, go to the media, contact the government, post all over social media, anything to warn future riders. If people knew this was a ticking time bomb, and kept this info between a small group of people, how are they not somewhat responsible as well?

 

[Nova]

RBBM

Source, please?

JMVHO.

Alas, WFLA, Channel 8's posted article, linked below, includes the second half of Mr. Martin's remarks. I watched the livestream and he is responding to his own claim that Titan was trying to jettison ballast when communications were interrupted.

5 aboard Titan sub presumed dead after ‘catastrophic implosion’

The pilot and four passengers aboard OceanGate’s Titan submersible were presumed dead Thursday after a remote operated vehicle discovered pieces of the vessel over two miles deep on the sea f…

www.wfla.com

“If you’re descending too fast, that can cause excess stress on certain parts of the vehicle,” Retired U.S. Navy Submariner Mark Martin told WFLA’s J.B. Biunno. “The reason you descend in a controlled manner is so that everything in the vehicle has the ability to acclimate to the increased pressure.”

Martin said it had been shared around the small, deep sea community that the Titan was trying to drop ballast at the time communications were lost. I wasn't the one who brought it up here, but I know I wouldn't be offended if you choose not to believe the report until it is more widely confirmed. But, to me, Martin seemed to know what he was talking about.

 

[Boxer]

They are now part of the ocean. Nothing to see but water.

Humans are 70% water when intact.

RBBM

Source, please?

JMVHO.

WFLA.COM interview with retired US Navy Submariner Mark Martin.


Here is a second print article citing him and others, after the debris was found. The first interview was live on video.

5 aboard Titan sub presumed dead after ‘catastrophic implosion’

The pilot and four passengers aboard OceanGate’s Titan submersible were presumed dead Thursday after a remote operated vehicle discovered pieces of the vessel over two miles deep on the sea f…

www.wfla.com

 

[gitana1]

I would agree with this. Typically, waivers are very effective. But not always. And in this case I don't think they will protect the company. You have to waive known risks. Did these passengers fully know that the sub was not certified or fully tested? Who knows. There may be information out there to answer that one way or the other. But I really think it is likely irrelevant. Ocean Gate will probably quickly file for bankruptcy. I doubt there is much in the way of actual assets. This particular sub is destroyed, I think there was another, is that correct? But has little value other than parts. There are probably some operating accounts and some equipment, but I doubt that is worth much. Hopefully some insurance but those limits will be miniscule related to the claims of the deceased. Maybe there are other entities that could be reached or individuals. Stockton Rush's personal assets could be reached perhaps. But also keep in mind there are likely other creditors, people or businesses owed money in the regular course. Regardless, Ocean Gate is finished. I wonder how many people it employed.

I was thinking about that today. Those employees are not going to have a job anymore.

 

[Boxer]

I would agree with this. Typically, waivers are very effective. But not always. And in this case I don't think they will protect the company. You have to waive known risks. Did these passengers fully know that the sub was not certified or fully tested? Who knows. There may be information out there to answer that one way or the other. But I really think it is likely irrelevant. Ocean Gate will probably quickly file for bankruptcy. I doubt there is much in the way of actual assets. This particular sub is destroyed, I think there was another, is that correct? But has little value other than parts. There are probably some operating accounts and some equipment, but I doubt that is worth much. Hopefully some insurance but those limits will be miniscule related to the claims of the deceased. Maybe there are other entities that could be reached or individuals. Stockton Rush's personal assets could be reached perhaps. But also keep in mind there are likely other creditors, people or businesses owed money in the regular course. Regardless, Ocean Gate is finished. I wonder how many people it employed.

IIRC Ocean Gate is a non profit which has different liabilities.
The board members may have exposure.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Power is restored. Finally. It’s been crazy. Anyways, I’ve got to catch back up. I found this just now so I don’t know if anyone has posted it yet but it’s about the married couple’s lawsuit:

I’ll just post them real quick and sort them out later in case it goes out again which is likely. So I’ll do a quick down and dirty:

Μήνυση κατά της Oceangate.pdf

HONORABLE RICHARD A. JONES. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON AT SEATTLE. 9 10 11. OCEANGATE INC., a Washington corporation,. 12 13 14 15. No. 2:18-cv-01083 RAJ DEFENDANT/COUNTERCLAIM PLAINTIFFS’ ANSWER TO COMPLAINT, AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES, AND...

www.docdroid.net

https://static.foxbusiness.com/foxbusiness.com/content/uploads/2023/06/19718130938.pdf

OceanGate Inc v. Lochridge :: Washington Western District Court :: Federal Civil Lawsuit No. 2:18-cv-01083-RAJ, Judge Richard A Jones presiding

OceanGate Inc v. Lochridge, Case No. 2:18-cv-01083-RAJ in the Washington Western District Court.

www.plainsite.org

*idk why this keeps coming up:

Khalid et al v. Citrix Systems Inc :: Washington Western District Court :: Federal Civil Lawsuit No. 2:20-cv-00711-RAJ, Judge Richard A Jones presiding

Khalid et al v. Citrix Systems Inc, Case No. 2:20-cv-00711-RAJ in the Washington Western District Court.

www.plainsite.org

*There are others coming up I’m afraid of duplicates. Legalese is NOT my specialty. Finding documents is more my style. Sometimes, I have no idea what they mean so I’ll pivot elsewhere. *Edited autocorrect and additional links

https://dam.tmz.com/document/b1/o/2023/06/22/b106a285e72448c3a7aef771402ffff0.pdf

https://www.wavy.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/06/Svanorof1pr23062221240.pdf

https://apl.uw.edu/project/projects/oceangate/pdfs/oceangate_script_03.pdf

http://www.thebahamasweekly.com/uploads/13/OceanGate_Antipodes_4.01.13.pdf

 

[iamshadow21]

I was thinking about that today. Those employees are not going to have a job anymore.

If they're part of the build and maintenance team, they might struggle to find another one. For one, this whole endeavour was a balls-up. And two, people who spend a bunch of time in the ocean have a reputation for being superstitious. People may not want to take the risk of hiring them.

MOO